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Old 10-17-2016, 10:57 AM
 
3 posts, read 1,347 times
Reputation: 10

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(source: http://www.upworthy.com/these-photos...to-hate?c=ufb1)

text: "Since the violent attacks in Paris, Islamophobia has been having a little bit of a moment. In the U.K., attacks against Muslims have spiked over 300%, according to some estimates. In the United States, political leaders have called for everything from putting Muslim Americans on a watch list to outright banning Muslim men and women from entering the country at all.
The LDS church in Brisbane wanted to show they weren't here for that.
They invited a group of Muslim community members to tour their church. And when it came time for the visitors' evening prayers, they set aside a room for them to pray.

According to KUTV's Daryl Lindsey, the group was incredibly moved by the show of respect. One member, Ali Kadri, posted about the experience on Facebook, and as of publication, the post has been shared over 9,000 times."

Why are Muslims associating with polytheists on a religious level? Joseph Smith the Mormon "prophet" taught there were many gods and that men become gods. He taught that gods had to learn to be gods. That is paganism!

Here you will find Joseph Smith's sermons teaching POLYTHEISM:

Mormon Literature Sampler: The King Follett Discourse

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...godssermon.htm

To summarize, Smith taught that all gods had to learn to be gods; that all gods were once men; he also taught that the chief gods appointed on of the gods to rule over planet earth. Mormonism teaches that its members are "gods in embryo." Joseph Smith also said he would be a god to the Mormons. In other words they aren't Christians, they are POLYTHEISTIC AND PAGAN.

Mormons love to advertise themselves, and they are obviously using the uninformed Muslims praying in their chapel to create the propaganda that Mormonism is "open" and "loving." Don't be fooled, Mormons are targeting Muslims to convert them to the religion of the false prophet, Joseph Smith.

Bottom line - isn't it forbidden in the Quran to associate (religiously) with polytheists? Isn't that "shirk?"

Last edited by doctrinematters; 10-17-2016 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,978 posts, read 22,174,454 times
Reputation: 10732
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrinematters View Post
(source: These photos of Muslims praying in a Mormon church are the right response to hate.)

text: "Since the violent attacks in Paris, Islamophobia has been having a little bit of a moment. In the U.K., attacks against Muslims have spiked over 300%, according to some estimates. In the United States, political leaders have called for everything from putting Muslim Americans on a watch list to outright banning Muslim men and women from entering the country at all.
The LDS church in Brisbane wanted to show they weren't here for that.
They invited a group of Muslim community members to tour their church. And when it came time for the visitors' evening prayers, they set aside a room for them to pray.

According to KUTV's Daryl Lindsey, the group was incredibly moved by the show of respect. One member, Ali Kadri, posted about the experience on Facebook, and as of publication, the post has been shared over 9,000 times."

Why are Muslims associating with polytheists on a religious level? Joseph Smith the Mormon "prophet" taught there were many gods and that men become gods. He taught that gods had to learn to be gods. That is paganism!

Here you will find Joseph Smith's sermons teaching POLYTHEISM:

Mormon Literature Sampler: The King Follett Discourse

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...godssermon.htm

To summarize, Smith taught that all gods had to learn to be gods; that all gods were once men; he also taught that the chief gods appointed on of the gods to rule over planet earth. Mormonism teaches that its members are "gods in embryo." Joseph Smith also said he would be a god to the Mormons. In other words they aren't Christians, they are POLYTHEISTIC AND PAGAN.

Mormons love to advertise themselves, and they are obviously using the uninformed Muslims praying in their chapel to create the propaganda that Mormonism is "open" and "loving." Don't be fooled, Mormons are targeting Muslims to convert them to the religion of the false prophet, Joseph Smith.

Bottom line - isn't it forbidden in the Quran to associate (religiously) with polytheists? Isn't that "shirk?"
Well, aside from the fact that your knowledge of Mormonism pretty pathetic, I'd say that the Mormons who set aside a room for the Muslims to pray are far better examples of how Jesus taught us to treat our fellow human beings than most Christians are. Your last link, incidentally, doesn't work, but I really liked your first one. I especially liked the concluding paragraph:

"You don't always have to agree with the Mormon church, or the Islam preached at a particular mosque, or the strict interpretation of any faith for that matter — even your own. All you have to agree with is the idea that everyone deserves respect. That's what the Brisbane Mormons did here. And that's why they deserve a round of applause."

Before you get too awfully carried away with your Mormon bashing, I'd just like to give you a heads up that it is against the rules of this forum to target any single denomination.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:26 PM
 
3 posts, read 1,347 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Well, aside from the fact that your knowledge of Mormonism pretty pathetic, I'd say that the Mormons who set aside a room for the Muslims to pray are far better examples of how Jesus taught us to treat our fellow human beings than most Christians are. Your last link, incidentally, doesn't work, but I really liked your first one. I especially liked the concluding paragraph:

"You don't always have to agree with the Mormon church, or the Islam preached at a particular mosque, or the strict interpretation of any faith for that matter — even your own. All you have to agree with is the idea that everyone deserves respect. That's what the Brisbane Mormons did here. And that's why they deserve a round of applause."

Before you get too awfully carried away with your Mormon bashing, I'd just like to give you a heads up that it is against the rules of this forum to target any single denomination.
Since I teach about Mormonism, I think I know it pretty well. Did you bother looking at the links to Joseph Smith's own teachings? I'm not bashing Mormonism, they can believe what they want. What I'm asking is why Muslims commit shirk by worshiping in a Mormon chapel?:

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism taught: " Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation," King Follet Discourse
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,978 posts, read 22,174,454 times
Reputation: 10732
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrinematters View Post
Since I teach about Mormonism, I think I know it pretty well.
Teaching about something proves nothing, as you have clearly demonstrated. I have been a Mormon for 68 years and I know it better than "pretty well." I'm sure I could teach a class on your religious beliefs, too, but that doesn't mean I'd do a very good job of it. Joseph Smith did, in fact say what you said. I am not denying that. I am denying that it is polytheism or paganism, as you claim it is. You are taking an out-of-context statement and building an entire theology around it. And you're doing so in a forum dedicated to another religious tradition entirely. You're out of line and I'm just giving you a heads up. Ignore me if you want.

Quote:
Did you bother looking at the links to Joseph Smith's own teachings? I'm not bashing Mormonism, they can believe what they want. What I'm asking is why Muslims commit shirk by worshiping in a Mormon chapel?
I don't know what it means to "commit shirk" but all the Muslims were doing is praying. Do you have a problem with someone praying? Or is it that you think that prayers can't be heard if they are offered from the "wrong" building? If I were a guest in another religion's house of worship and they offered to give me a room to pray privately in, I would view the gesture as extremely thoughtful.

Quote:
Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism taught: " Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation," King Follet Discourse
So what? The highly regarded Protestant theologian, C. S. Lewis said “The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

Last edited by Katzpur; 10-17-2016 at 05:54 PM..
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
Reputation: 7407
to begin with Shirk is the worshiping of gods other than Allaah(swt) or in addition to Allaah(swt)

There is no indication Mormons worship any god except the one God(swt) With that said There is nothing that forbids us from praying in a clean room that does not contain any distraction. It seems the room offered met the criteria.

It was a very nice gesture made by the Mormons of that Church.
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:05 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,870,310 times
Reputation: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrinematters View Post
(source: These photos of Muslims praying in a Mormon church are the right response to hate.)

text: "Since the violent attacks in Paris, Islamophobia has been having a little bit of a moment. In the U.K., attacks against Muslims have spiked over 300%, according to some estimates. In the United States, political leaders have called for everything from putting Muslim Americans on a watch list to outright banning Muslim men and women from entering the country at all.
The LDS church in Brisbane wanted to show they weren't here for that.
They invited a group of Muslim community members to tour their church. And when it came time for the visitors' evening prayers, they set aside a room for them to pray.

According to KUTV's Daryl Lindsey, the group was incredibly moved by the show of respect. One member, Ali Kadri, posted about the experience on Facebook, and as of publication, the post has been shared over 9,000 times."

Why are Muslims associating with polytheists on a religious level? Joseph Smith the Mormon "prophet" taught there were many gods and that men become gods. He taught that gods had to learn to be gods. That is paganism!

Here you will find Joseph Smith's sermons teaching POLYTHEISM:

Mormon Literature Sampler: The King Follett Discourse

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...godssermon.htm

To summarize, Smith taught that all gods had to learn to be gods; that all gods were once men; he also taught that the chief gods appointed on of the gods to rule over planet earth. Mormonism teaches that its members are "gods in embryo." Joseph Smith also said he would be a god to the Mormons. In other words they aren't Christians, they are POLYTHEISTIC AND PAGAN.

Mormons love to advertise themselves, and they are obviously using the uninformed Muslims praying in their chapel to create the propaganda that Mormonism is "open" and "loving." Don't be fooled, Mormons are targeting Muslims to convert them to the religion of the false prophet, Joseph Smith.

Bottom line - isn't it forbidden in the Quran to associate (religiously) with polytheists? Isn't that "shirk?"
Oh shush.

Bottom line, Mormonism is actually incredibly similar to Islam.

1. Sorry, youre misunderstanding this. Mormonism is based on monotheism, not polytheism. It just proclaims that the goal of existence is to become " like God". For that matter, Islam was foiunded in an area that was polytheist, and became monotheist. Get over it. Also, for all we know these things you say are deities might be at the same level as djinn.
2. Both Mormonism and Islam began from a wilderness encounter with an angel (Moroni/Gabriel same difference)
3. Both are polygamous
4. Both allow women to be married who are much younger than their men
5. Both are non-Trinitarian
6. Both believe Christianity was originally a true religion but deformed over time. So, both see their founder as a leader backj to true faith.
7. And so on.

Look at Wiki's article on Islam and Mormonism. Besides #1 above they are incredibly similar.

Why are they hanging out at mormon temples? Likely they are embarrassed by the violence of Islam, and hanging out at a place that is similar to what they know.
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:05 AM
 
3 posts, read 1,347 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Teaching about something proves nothing, as you have clearly demonstrated. I have been a Mormon for 68 years and I know it better than "pretty well." I'm sure I could teach a class on your religious beliefs, too, but that doesn't mean I'd do a very good job of it. Joseph Smith did, in fact say what you said. I am not denying that. I am denying that it is polytheism or paganism, as you claim it is. You are taking an out-of-context statement and building an entire theology around it. And you're doing so in a forum dedicated to another religious tradition entirely. You're out of line and I'm just giving you a heads up. Ignore me if you want.

I don't know what it means to "commit shirk" but all the Muslims were doing is praying. Do you have a problem with someone praying? Or is it that you think that prayers can't be heard if they are offered from the "wrong" building? If I were a guest in another religion's house of worship and they offered to give me a room to pray privately in, I would view the gesture as extremely thoughtful.

So what? The highly regarded Protestant theologian, C. S. Lewis said “The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."
Would Muslims use a Hindu temple to say their prayers?
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:23 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,870,310 times
Reputation: 996
You didnt read your own article.

Following the attacks, most of the country hates them it says. Then it says the LDS invited them to use a portion of their temple to worship. This would be like if some group was banned for their own temple and someone told them "you can use our third floor to pray."

This is not hanging out with polytheists, this is someone offering temple space and instead of being gracious and accepting the offer, rubbing rather shallow differences in theology in their face.

If Protestantism were banned in Ireland, and one Catholic invited them to use their basement this would be like rather than saying " thanks, now i can pray!" you say "we dont associate with you catholics!"

If all Christian temples were closed, I would have no beef worshiping in a synagogue.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrinematters View Post
Would Muslims use a Hindu temple to say their prayers?
Not if there were any statues present. Or if there was something distracting in view as they faced toward the Qiblah. A Masjid (Mosque) is not a building. It is the area within which the Individual prays. It has to be approximately the size of a prayer rug (Large enough so the individual can prostrate) and with nothing distracting, or obscene, or unclean in the direction the individual is facing. so yes if those conditions can be found within a Hindu Shrine at Salat time, it is permissible to say the Salat there.


Quote:
151162: Ruling on Muslim praying in the house of a Christian
Is it permissible to offer namaz in the house of a non-muslim?.
Published Date: 2011-12-17
Praise be to Allaah.
It is permissible to pray in the house of a Christian or anyone else who does not follow the religion of Islam because of the general meaning of the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him): “… the earth has been made for me a place of prostration and a means of purification, so wherever a man of my ummah is when the time for prayer comes, let him pray...”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 323

As-Sindi (may Allah have mercy on him) said: What we learn from the hadeeth is that the earth itself in its entirety is a place for prayer, unless there is any impediment in the presence of which prayer is makrooh or invalid, in which case the ruling is connected to that impediment.

End quote from Haashiyat as-Sindi, commentary on Saheeh al-Bukhaari, 1/140

https://islamqa.info/en/151162
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Old 10-18-2016, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,978 posts, read 22,174,454 times
Reputation: 10732
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Bottom line, Mormonism is actually incredibly similar to Islam.
There are, in fact, some similarities, and I've never seen any reason to deny that. The similarities are, however, more cultural in nature, i.e. related to lifestyle, than doctrinal. The wiki article also lists the differences between the two, which are even more numerous and striking than the similarities.

Also, some of your statements are, in my opinion, kind of misleading. I don't believe that this was intentional on your part, and since this is the Islam forum, I won't elaborate, or even correct you. Anyway, I know you were responding to the OP and not to me, and I've already told him what I think of his judgmental attitude. There's no need for me to belabor the point.

Quote:
Why are they hanging out at mormon temples? Likely they are embarrassed by the violence of Islam, and hanging out at a place that is similar to what they know.
And the real reason they were "hanging out" at a Mormon church (not a Mormon temple, which is something completely different) was explained in the article which prompted the OP to start this thread:

Since the violent attacks in Paris, Islamophobia has been having a little bit of a moment. In the U.K., attacks against Muslims have spiked over 300%, according to some estimates. In the United States, political leaders have called for everything from putting Muslim Americans on a watch list to outright banning Muslim men and women from entering the country at all.

The LDS church in Brisbane [Australia] wanted to show they weren't here for that.

They invited a group of Muslim community members to tour their church. And when it came time for the visitors' evening prayers, they set aside a room for them to pray.


A simple gesture of goodwill, and somebody has to twist it into something negative.
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