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Old 10-26-2016, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Adding a thought:

The Qur'an has been translated into very many languages and even many different ones in some languages. Not one of them meets the beauty of the Qur'an. It is doubtful many if any people have ever memorized any of the Translations.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So now that you agree that judging the quality of the content is subjective, then you should move to facts.

Facts are not subjective. Facts are facts.

Know a few facts about Quran and then produce another such book.

Anyone and everyone can be your judge since they will compare facts and not opinions.
Okay, I think we are winding down. We are back to square-one and my original post which has to do with asking what criteria is used in the Quran Challenge. I was told of literary methods and devices. And again, I don't see where such things are so amazing as to be the product of a god, beyond duplication, not to mention that such things have nothing to do with any kind of astonishing content. Now I am told I need to know facts pertinent to the Quran, alleged facts that might have been offered to me after my first post where I essentially inquired about such things.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
Okay, I think we are winding down. We are back to square-one and my original post which has to do with asking what criteria is used in the Quran Challenge. I was told of literary methods and devices. And again, I don't see where such things are so amazing as to be the product of a god, beyond duplication, not to mention that such things have nothing to do with any kind of astonishing content. Now I am told I need to know facts pertinent to the Quran, alleged facts that might have been offered to me after my first post where I essentially inquired about such things.
Perhaps the best answer is to understand when it was first tried.

Muhammad(saws) was accused of writing the Qur'an. His reply was that no Human could write the Qur'an and challenged the Arabic scholars to try to do so. They were unable to.
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Old 10-26-2016, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Here
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Perhaps the best answer is to understand when it was first tried.

Muhammad(saws) was accused of writing the Qur'an. His reply was that no Human could write the Qur'an and challenged the Arabic scholars to try to do so. They were unable to.
Okay, that makes sense. It has historical roots without necessarily being intended to be a challenge beyond its origins. Getting back to my original post, I can now use that information the next time I am asked to take the Quran Challenge, which is what initiated this thread in the first place.
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Old 10-26-2016, 07:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Adding a thought:

The Qur'an has been translated into very many languages and even many different ones in some languages. Not one of them meets the beauty of the Qur'an. It is doubtful many if any people have ever memorized any of the Translations.
How can this be determined, since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as the adage states?
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Old 10-26-2016, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
How can this be determined, since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as the adage states?
Here it is a bit simpler than that. No one was able to write a single original line using the poetic pattern of the Qur'an and have it make any sense.

In Arabic there is a finite number (16 of them) patterns of Arabic poetry. No one has yet to write an Arabic Poem which does not fall into one of the 16 forms. But the Qur'an does and to date is the only Arabic poetry that does not fall into one of the 16 categories.

From my previous Post

Quote:
The opinion of M S M Saifullah, cAbd ar-Rahman Robert Squires & Muhammad Ghoniem

The Qur'an in many places challenges the people to produce a surah like it. It appears that the Christian missionaries who call the challenge irrelevent or an utterly subjective criterion are pretty much unaware of how the Arabic poetry and prose compares with the Qur'an. This article is devoted to deal with one aspect of the Qur'anic challenge of produce a surah like it. What is meant by surah like it with respect to the Arabic prose and poetry?

So, the challenge, as cAbdur Rahim Green mentions, is to produce in Arabic , three lines, that do not fall into one of these sixteen al-Bihar, that is not rhyming prose, nor like the speech of soothsayers, and not normal speech, that it should contain at least a comprehensible meaning and rhetoric, i.e. not gobbledygook. Indeed
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Old 10-27-2016, 11:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Here it is a bit simpler than that. No one was able to write a single original line using the poetic pattern of the Qur'an and have it make any sense.

In Arabic there is a finite number (16 of them) patterns of Arabic poetry. No one has yet to write an Arabic Poem which does not fall into one of the 16 forms. But the Qur'an does and to date is the only Arabic poetry that does not fall into one of the 16 categories.

From my previous Post
What does that have to do with beauty? You can certainly provide an objective criterion, that it must not fit into either of these patterns, but whether this is beautiful or not depends upon the individual.
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
What does that have to do with beauty? You can certainly provide an objective criterion, that it must not fit into either of these patterns, but whether this is beautiful or not depends upon the individual.
I agree that beauty in "in the eyes of the beholder" which is probably why it is not mentioned in the Challenge as stated in the Qur'an.. What is asked is to write a logical poem in Arabic that is not one of the 16 forms and is still readable. While it is true most Muslims believe the Qur'an is the most beautiful of poetry, that really is not the challenge.
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Old 10-27-2016, 06:08 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I agree that beauty in "in the eyes of the beholder" which is probably why it is not mentioned in the Challenge as stated in the Qur'an.. What is asked is to write a logical poem in Arabic that is not one of the 16 forms and is still readable. While it is true most Muslims believe the Qur'an is the most beautiful of poetry, that really is not the challenge.
Can you give several examples of hate/ugliness in the quran?
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Old 10-27-2016, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Can you give several examples of hate/ugliness in the quran?
If a person finds hate or ugliness in the Qur'an, I do not believe they understand it and speak through personal prejudices and hatred.

It is true that the Qur'an does point out there are consequences for our actions.

It is the same with any warning. Those that desire to heed the warnings see them as words of beauty and those who desire to ignore see them as hateful, meaningless and something to be circumvented.

Those that have no love for Allaah(swt) will never see the Qur'an as an invitation to join Him in heaven, they will see it as a book of domination and injustice. What a person sees the Qur'an, as being, is a very accurate mirror of the person. When a person sees hatred and ugliness in the Qur'an, they are exposing their own heart for all to see.
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