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Old 10-31-2016, 10:22 AM
 
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The Arabs know the secrets of speech, and strongly-known hostility to Islam; they did not find the eloquence of the Qur'an and good organized and style,They did not find a direct criticism of it, , but they admitted that it is not like the speeches of orators and poets


This is what Walid August pay Raider (from Mecca leaders) to praise the Koran, and says he is not the word of humans.

So why Arab leaders did not believe it in the beginning?
What caused them to denial of the Prophet, is arrogance, they did not want to be that Muhammad is the prophet,


Tribal of Hisham ibn al-Hakam (Abu Jahl, who was a leader in Maka) prevented the ratification of the prophet, that he saw that he preferred prophecy of Muhammad, peace be upon him

And they said, "Why was this Qur'an not sent down upon a great man from [one of] the two cities( Maka & Al Taeif)?"

We know that you, [O Muhammad], are saddened by what they say. And indeed, they do not call you untruthful, but it is the verses of Allah that the wrongdoers reject. (Al Anaam 33)

Another thing, and that is the Koran spoke of things will happen in the future, and has already occurred, he told Mohammed that?

From these events, that the Koran was told that Abolhb (leader in Makka) that he will die on infidelity, Abolhb could come and say I get into Islam with Muhammad, and hence the Qura'n tell a lie, but he did not do and did not come to islam for 15 years, and actually he died on the infidelity
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Old 11-01-2016, 09:24 AM
 
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First: that the war in Islam has ethics and etiquette,
let to see what the prophet Mohamed said,

Chapter: Ruler appointing leaders of expeditions and advising them of the etiquette of war, etc.
t has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraida through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of the Muhajireen and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajireen. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muslims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated. When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah's Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah's behest with regard to them.

Sahih Muslim 1731

Second: talk you mentioned, said part of the story, here is important note that should be met, said Bukhari reported the story in the chapter of manumission, that means the objective of the said story is to call to the emancipation of the slaves, because he said the story of freeing Juyria bent Al Harith (the leader of Bani Mustaliq) then Liberate the sons of the tribe


Third: the rest of the story is that the Bani Al Mustaliq was in a feud with Muslims, Bani Al Mustaliq wanted to attack the Madina (the capital of Muslim state), when the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has known that,he wanted to go to them before they reached him, one of the principles of war is the surprise,Bani Al Mustaliq found Muslims in front of them, there was a fight between the two teams, Bani Al Mustaliq was defeated , Muslims have taken slaves, it was the nature of the war, and is still happening so far , then freeing Juyria bent Al Harith (the leader of Bani Mustaliq) then Liberate the sons of the tribe
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:36 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 755,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vonason View Post
First: that the war in Islam has ethics and etiquette,
let to see what the prophet Mohamed said,

If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.
Sahih Muslim 1731
This is horrible!! Evil!! It says that if people do not submit to Islam and/or pay blood money...then slaughter them!! If I come to your house and demand that you forget allah, start being a scientologist or give me your money....is that moral? Can you really stop believing in allah because I threaten you?? Can you start believing in scientology at the point of a gun and a drop of a hat?? USE YOUR HEAD!! Isn't it STEALING if I take your money at the point of a sward, or gun and under the threat of slaughter?? THINK!!

It is evil to try to force people to believe what they do not believe. It is evil to slaughter them for not believing what you demand.

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If you come to a township (which has surrendered without a formal war) and stay therein, you have a share (that will be in the form of an award) in (the properties obtained from) it. If a township disobeys Allah and His Messenger (and actually fights against the Muslims) one-fifth of the booty seized therefrom is for Allah and His Apostle and the rest is for you. (Sahih Muslim 4346)
Here we learn that people who were not at war with the Muslims are to be subjugated anyway, and their property seized.

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them (9:5)

We met the workers of Khaybar coming out in the morning with their spades and baskets. When they saw the apostle and the army they cried, “Muhammad with his force,” and turned tail and fled… The apostle seized the property piece by piece… (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

When the apostle raided a people he waited until the morning. If he heard a call to prayer he held back; if he did not hear it he attacked. We came to Khaybar by night, and the apostle passed the night there; and when morning came he did not hear the call to prayer, so he rode and we rode with him. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

Allah's Messenger called Ali [and said]: “Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory,” and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: “Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?” Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ”Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger…” (Sahih Muslim 5917)

[Muhammad] said, “Woe to you, Abu Sufyan, isn’t it time that you recognize that I am Allah’s apostle?” He (Abu Sufyan) answered, “As to that I still have some doubt.” I (the narrator) said to him, “Submit and testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the apostle of Allah before you lose your head,” so he did so. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 814)

Allah's Apostle sent us towards Al-Huruqa, and in the morning we attacked them and defeated them. I and an Ansari man followed a man from among them and when we took him over, he said, "La ilaha illal-Lah." On hearing that, the Ansari man stopped, but I killed him by stabbing him with my spear. When we returned, the Prophet came to know about that and he said, "O Usama! Did you kill him after he had said "La ilaha ilal-Lah?" I said, "But he said so only to save himself." The Prophet kept on repeating that so often that I wished I had not embraced Islam before that day. (Bukhari 59:568)
[/quote]

“Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah,” were his instructions to one of his military leaders (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992).

Then the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them; and if they declined he was to fight them. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 959)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vonason View Post
Second: talk you mentioned, said part of the story, here is important note that should be met, said Bukhari reported the story in the chapter of manumission, that means the objective of the said story is to call to the emancipation of the slaves, because he said the story of freeing Juyria bent Al Harith (the leader of Bani Mustaliq) then Liberate the sons of the tribe

Are you joking? Muhammed sold women and traded slaves and owned slaves and let his men take captives women as slaves and rape them!

There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) (Sahih Muslim 3901).
Muhammad actually “purchased” the slave by trading two black slaves, which is hardly a shining example of emancipation.

The apostle gave Ali a girl called Rayta; and he gave Uthman a girl called Zaynab; and he gave Umar a girl whom Umar gave to his son Abdullah. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 878)

Muhammed passed out girls like party favors!


Quote:
Originally Posted by vonason View Post
Third: the rest of the story is that the Bani Al Mustaliq was in a feud with Muslims, Bani Al Mustaliq wanted to attack the Madina (the capital of Muslim state), when the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has known that,he wanted to go to them before they reached him, one of the principles of war is the surprise,Bani Al Mustaliq found Muslims in front of them, there was a fight between the two teams, Bani Al Mustaliq was defeated , Muslims have taken slaves, it was the nature of the war, and is still happening so far , then freeing Juyria bent Al Harith (the leader of Bani Mustaliq) then Liberate the sons of the tribe
Prove it.
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:53 PM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,197,589 times
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Originally Posted by vonason View Post
Yes. Allah has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists and more important, what we should do once we come to this realization.

1) Allah has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact, Allah does in fact, exist.

2) Moses (peace be upon him) showed many miracles to pharaoh and to the children of Israel. Plagues, locusts, water turning to blood, his stick becoming a snake, the voice in the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea are clear miracles for the people of Moses time.

Moderator cut: Edit: The remainder of this post is deleted to conform to the Terms Of Service. The post was copied from: God Allah - Is There Evidence?
There's a difference between just asserting something as "proof" and that thing actually being proof.


I can say that the world exists is proof of the native creation stories of a sun god. But that ain't proof. Just like what you've said here.
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Old 11-01-2016, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,323,236 times
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
This is horrible!! Evil!! It says that if people do not submit to Islam and/or pay blood money...then slaughter them!! If I come to your house and demand that you forget allah, start being a scientologist or give me your money....is that moral? Can you really stop believing in allah because I threaten you?? Can you start believing in scientology at the point of a gun and a drop of a hat?? USE YOUR HEAD!! Isn't it STEALING if I take your money at the point of a sward, or gun and under the threat of slaughter?? THINK!!
-------SNIP----------------
This was directed to a specific people at a specific time because of a specific event. The Mushikrun had violated the treaty. As a result they were given a year to KEEP out of Mecca. Those that agreed to pay Jizyah (Which applies only to adult males, in good physical condition) would be permitted to come into or even live in Mecca. As would those who accepted Islam. At the end of the Year any Mushrikun found in Mecca and not paying the Jizyah(if applicable) would be killed on sight, unless they surrendered and agreed to the conditions for living/living in Mecca.


first understand the Mushrikun were not citizens or even residents of Mecca.

This is basically the same as Immigrants coming into America, committing treason and getting arrested and given a choice of either being deported or agreeing to follow the laws. Then given a full year to decide, if they did not agree and were found in America after a year they would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. (Which in America would be the death penalty)

The Mushrikun chose to keep out of Mecca and there was no bloodshed.
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This was directed to a specific people at a specific time because of a specific event. The Mushikrun had violated the treaty. As a result they were given a year to KEEP out of Mecca. Those that agreed to pay Jizyah (Which applies only to adult males, in good physical condition) would be permitted to come into or even live in Mecca. As would those who accepted Islam. At the end of the Year any Mushrikun found in Mecca and not paying the Jizyah(if applicable) would be killed on sight, unless they surrendered and agreed to the conditions for living/living in Mecca.


first understand the Mushrikun were not citizens or even residents of Mecca.

This is basically the same as Immigrants coming into America, committing treason and getting arrested and given a choice of either being deported or agreeing to follow the laws. Then given a full year to decide, if they did not agree and were found in America after a year they would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. (Which in America would be the death penalty)

The Mushrikun chose to keep out of Mecca and there was no bloodshed.
"Kill those who Associate Partners (Mushrikun) Wherever You Find Them!"
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Which is 9:5 in the Qur'an.

Ayyats 9:1 thru 12 were given for three purposes. The first to inform all Muslims that the Treaty with the Mushrikun was voided.

Second reason to give fair warning to the Mushrikun to either abide by the conditions or keep out of Mecca (Keep in mind, Mecca had a large Jewish population and this did not apply to them.

The third reason for the revelation is to remind all Muslims that all treaties are to be honored unless the other party voids the treaty.

Read 9:1-12 in that context and perhaps you will understand this is not a command for all Muslims to kill all non-Muslims wherever we find them.



Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty: - 9:1 (Picktall)

Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His guidance). - 9:2 (Picktall)



And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. - 9:3 (Picktall)

Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfill their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him). - 9:4 (Picktall)


Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. - 9:5 (Picktall)


And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the word of Allah; and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not. - 9:6 (Picktall)

How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty. - 9:7 (Picktall)


How (can there be any treaty for the others) when, if they have the upper hand of you, they regard not pact nor honor in respect of you? They satisfy you with their mouths the while their hearts refuse. And most of them are wrong doers. - 9:8 (Picktall)

They have purchased with the revelations of Allah a little gain, so they debar (men) from His way. Lo! evil is that which they are wont to do. - 9:9 (Picktall)


And they observe toward a believer neither pact nor honor. These are they who are transgressors. - 9:10 (Picktall)

But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. - 9:11 (Picktall)



And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief Lo! they have no binding oaths in order that they may desist. - 9:12 (Picktall)
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:56 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 666,629 times
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Originally Posted by vonason View Post
The Arabs know the secrets of speech, and strongly-known hostility to Islam; they did not find the eloquence of the Qur'an and good organized and style,They did not find a direct criticism of it, , but they admitted that it is not like the speeches of orators and poets


This is what Walid August pay Raider (from Mecca leaders) to praise the Koran, and says he is not the word of humans.

So why Arab leaders did not believe it in the beginning?
What caused them to denial of the Prophet, is arrogance, they did not want to be that Muhammad is the prophet,


Tribal of Hisham ibn al-Hakam (Abu Jahl, who was a leader in Maka) prevented the ratification of the prophet, that he saw that he preferred prophecy of Muhammad, peace be upon him

And they said, "Why was this Qur'an not sent down upon a great man from [one of] the two cities( Maka & Al Taeif)?"

We know that you, [O Muhammad], are saddened by what they say. And indeed, they do not call you untruthful, but it is the verses of Allah that the wrongdoers reject. (Al Anaam 33)

Another thing, and that is the Koran spoke of things will happen in the future, and has already occurred, he told Mohammed that?

From these events, that the Koran was told that Abolhb (leader in Makka) that he will die on infidelity, Abolhb could come and say I get into Islam with Muhammad, and hence the Qura'n tell a lie, but he did not do and did not come to islam for 15 years, and actually he died on the infidelity
What is presented by Muhammad
Muhammad devoted cult of the Black Stone
Muhammad did not cancel the pilgrimage, one of the pagan rituals
Mohammed did not free women
But women make the level of feces and lacking in mind and religion
Muhammad did not abolish the law of war
But he considered it a constitution for Muslims
Mohammed announced offensive war on the human race
Did you know that the idolaters are considered unclean
The word and the word نجس unclean very ugly
Are all humans unclean only Muslims are the good guys
The treaty also say
And breach of treaty agreements
My friend is the teachings of Islam is valid in all times and places
This is a major Museiby
That the provisions of the Koran can be applied in all ages
This is what Muslims over their history
If the states especially in the phase of war between Muhammad and his enemies Koran
Here Verses be obsolete
But the verses of the Koran also applies in our time
Every man is not a Muslim is unclean نجس
This is the teaching of Islam, which is the hatred
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:02 AM
 
26 posts, read 11,564 times
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Islam came to equate all believers and the prophet says, "Muslim brother." He also says "there is no difference between an Arab nor a non-Arab nor white nor black but piety"

Prophet, peace be upon him ordered that a slave must wear like his master and eat like what he eats. This is not an option for a Muslim ,but it must be. So if you saw them eating will not know either Master and whichever slave.

We judge the time of the Prophet, peace be upon him, the logic of our time now, it's not fair, that Islam came and entrenched slavery existed in all societies, and slavery has been until recently.

Islam narrows the source of slavery, and expanded in the emancipation process by freeing slaves in the case of murder by mistake, the alliance with God by mistake, etc.

١١ فَلَا ٱقْتَحَمَ ٱلْعَقَبَةَ11 But he did not brave the ascent.
١٢ وَمَآ أَدْرَىٰكَ مَا ٱلْعَقَبَةُ
12 And what will explain to you what the ascent is?

١٣ فَكُّ رَقَبَةٍ
13 The freeing of a slave.

١٤ أَوْ إِطْعَٰمٌ فِى يَوْمٍ ذِى مَسْغَبَةٍ
14 Or the feeding on a day of hunger.

١٥ يَتِيمًا ذَا مَقْرَبَةٍ
15 An orphan near of kin.

١٦ أَوْ مِسْكِينًا ذَا مَتْرَبَةٍ
16 Or a destitute in the dust.

Surah Al Balad
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:05 PM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,197,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Which is 9:5 in the Qur'an.

Ayyats 9:1 thru 12 were given for three purposes. The first to inform all Muslims that the Treaty with the Mushrikun was voided.

Second reason to give fair warning to the Mushrikun to either abide by the conditions or keep out of Mecca (Keep in mind, Mecca had a large Jewish population and this did not apply to them.

The third reason for the revelation is to remind all Muslims that all treaties are to be honored unless the other party voids the treaty.

Read 9:1-12 in that context and perhaps you will understand this is not a command for all Muslims to kill all non-Muslims wherever we find them.



Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty: - 9:1 (Picktall)

Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His guidance). - 9:2 (Picktall)



And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. - 9:3 (Picktall)

Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfill their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him). - 9:4 (Picktall)


Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. - 9:5 (Picktall)


And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the word of Allah; and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not. - 9:6 (Picktall)

How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty. - 9:7 (Picktall)


How (can there be any treaty for the others) when, if they have the upper hand of you, they regard not pact nor honor in respect of you? They satisfy you with their mouths the while their hearts refuse. And most of them are wrong doers. - 9:8 (Picktall)

They have purchased with the revelations of Allah a little gain, so they debar (men) from His way. Lo! evil is that which they are wont to do. - 9:9 (Picktall)


And they observe toward a believer neither pact nor honor. These are they who are transgressors. - 9:10 (Picktall)

But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. - 9:11 (Picktall)



And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief Lo! they have no binding oaths in order that they may desist. - 9:12 (Picktall)


Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. - 9:3 (Picktall)
Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. - 9:5 (Picktall)


Err...
Normally the contradictions in religious ideologies are spread further apart in the "sacred" texts, they only appear where the people who made them up forgot what they previously wrote. This one is juxtaposed right there. Wonderful.


Certainly this ideology is going to have a different outcome on the world than one that says never kill.
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