U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-05-2016, 07:49 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 755,592 times
Reputation: 435

Advertisements

You know what really burns me? All those innocent people slaughtered by Muslims in those early days when just the quran existed. A pile of meaningless garbage, or as you say:
" Out side of the message of the Qur'an which is "There is only one God and only he is to be worshiped" it is very difficult to understand the Qur'an without some knowledge of the Sunnah, Ahadith and commentaries of the Ulemmah and scholars.

You will learn very little from the Qur'an except the MESSAGE. You pretty much have to be a Muslim to know how a Muslim understands the Qur'an. The Message is easy to understand. The ifs, buts and whys are not that easy to learn from the Qur'an alone. "

And none of that "Sunnah, Ahadith and commentaries of the Ulemmah and scholars" existed, but that didn;t stop Muhammed and his gang from slaughtering innocent people who had no clue about why they were being slaughtered.

And that message....yawn....same old, same old.

And then we move on to the millions slaughtered by Muslims thru the ages. India is a horrific example:

"Muslim historian Firishta [full name Muhammad Qasim Hindu Shah, born in 1560 and died in 1620], the author of the Tarikh-i Firishta and the Gulshan-i Ibrahim, was the first to give an idea to the medieval bloodbath that was India during Muslim rule, when he declared that over 400 million Hindus got slaughtered during Muslim invasion and occupation of India. Survivors got enslaved and castrated. India’s population is said to have been around 600 million at the time of Muslim invasion. By the mid 1500’s the Hindu population was 200 million."

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com...de-in-history/

There is no evidence for a god, but there sure is a lot of bloody evidence for the evil that comes from believing in such a god as allah.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-05-2016, 10:50 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 666,260 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You see it one way while I and probably most Muslims see it differently. Out side of the message of the Qur'an which is "There is only one God and only he is to be worshiped" it is very difficult to understand the Qur'an without some knowledge of the Sunnah, Ahadith and commentaries of the Ulemmah and scholars.

You will learn very little from the Qur'an except the MESSAGE. You pretty much have to be a Muslim to know how a Muslim understands the Qur'an. The Message is easy to understand. The ifs, buts and whys are not that easy to learn from the Qur'an alone.

but again, Thank You for your views. I find them to be thought provoking and an excellent tool for me to increase my Eeman. You give me considerable incentive to study the Tafsir and General consensus of other Muslims. I had been becoming quite lax in my practice of Islam, but your posts have rejuvenated the the flame of Enthusiasm I had when I first reverted.
Ask you the next question
Is this verse, especially in that battle only
The work was completed by then
It is this verse is not from Islamic law in its relations with non-Muslims
The problem is that the effect of this verse is a major in Islamic history
All wars Islamic rely on this verse

Because the term does not include the infidels from the Arab cousins Mohammed only
But the word is general and applies to all mankind
That is the state of war and hostility is a continuous and lasting because it is the most important teachings of the Koran
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2016, 07:20 AM
 
4,431 posts, read 1,660,458 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
You know what really burns me? All those innocent people slaughtered by Muslims in those early days when just the quran existed. A pile of meaningless garbage, or as you say:
" Out side of the message of the Qur'an which is "There is only one God and only he is to be worshiped" it is very difficult to understand the Qur'an without some knowledge of the Sunnah, Ahadith and commentaries of the Ulemmah and scholars.

You will learn very little from the Qur'an except the MESSAGE. You pretty much have to be a Muslim to know how a Muslim understands the Qur'an. The Message is easy to understand. The ifs, buts and whys are not that easy to learn from the Qur'an alone. "

And none of that "Sunnah, Ahadith and commentaries of the Ulemmah and scholars" existed, but that didn;t stop Muhammed and his gang from slaughtering innocent people who had no clue about why they were being slaughtered.

And that message....yawn....same old, same old.

And then we move on to the millions slaughtered by Muslims thru the ages. India is a horrific example:

"Muslim historian Firishta [full name Muhammad Qasim Hindu Shah, born in 1560 and died in 1620], the author of the Tarikh-i Firishta and the Gulshan-i Ibrahim, was the first to give an idea to the medieval bloodbath that was India during Muslim rule, when he declared that over 400 million Hindus got slaughtered during Muslim invasion and occupation of India. Survivors got enslaved and castrated. India’s population is said to have been around 600 million at the time of Muslim invasion. By the mid 1500’s the Hindu population was 200 million."

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com...de-in-history/

There is no evidence for a god, but there sure is a lot of bloody evidence for the evil that comes from believing in such a god as allah.

lol that you are burned. And it's evident from your retarded post where you seem to blindly believe in whatever is in accord with your hate.
Population of India in 1500's was 90 million.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2016, 08:22 PM
 
26 posts, read 11,560 times
Reputation: 10
It was narrated from 'Aishah that the Messenger of Allah married her when she was six years old, and consummated the marriage with her when she was nine. Sunan an-Nasa'i 3255

1) No one of any note has claimed Muhammad had sexual intercourse with Aisha when she was 6 years-old.
It was only their marriage that took place when she was aged 6. (and stayed in her father's house )
consummated the marriage occurred when she was 9 years-old (trans located to the prophet's house)


2) Menstruation, which is a sign of puberty can happen at the age of 9 years, scientifically, and you can review the doctors about it.

Normal Menstrual Cycle-Menarche and the Teenage Menstrual Cycle

3) In tropical climates puberty is much earlier

4) It was the nature of the Arabs at the time that a woman marries when she menstruate (puberty)
so, about the infidels Quraish infidels, whether or tribes Arabs or Persians and the Romans, Jews or Christians of Najran ,Why they did not take that as evidence against the Prophet, peace be upon him

no mention in the history books, whether true or weak they've made this is against the Prophet, peace be upon him

5) But is it really physical evidence of the state of a girl can be pregnant at the age of nine years old?
you can see this link about a list of known biological mothers between 5 and 10 years of age

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._birth_mothers

6) Some may object that it was an abomination how tormented child forced into marriage

Sayyida Aisha says, the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him married me in Shawwal. and consummated the marriage in Shawwal. Any wives of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him was favored by him to me? He said: Aisha mustahabb that its women involved in Shawwal.
Aisha boasts all the women, because the Messenger built in Shawwal, is this love, jealousy and pride in the Messenger of Allah betrays that she was an abomination
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2016, 10:41 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,871,081 times
Reputation: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by vonason View Post
Belief in one God, Allah in Arabic, constitutes the very foundation of Islam. There is no deity except Allah. He is indivisible and absolutely transcendent. God is the Almighty, the Creator and the Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing and nothing is comparable to Him.

Moderator cut: Edit: Remainder of post removed due to copyright violation.
If you look at Islam, it has striking similarities with atheism.

But, you ask, how can this be? Does not Islam preach thing quoted above, and indivisable and absolutely transcendent deity? Yes, and this is exactly how.

Islam, unlike Christianity or Judaism, is a Dualism. By that, I do not mean there are two gods.

Dualism as in, there is God, and then there is everything else. Islam rejects the idea of personal God, the idea that God ois within the framework of realityor part of us (Holy Spirit or Anima), or that divinity can in any way be acquired. As far as Islam is concerned, human are not "made in the image of God" but separate creations, wholly distinct from an aloof transcendent deity.

But if Allah is indivisible and transcendent, this also makes such irrelevant because human beings are not connected to this being in any way, incapable of understanding such, and humans are likely not considered of much worth anyway. This is not much different from a god not existing in the first place.

Judaism especially, and secondarily Christianity, is built from a Unity consciousness. "Hear o Israel, the Lord your God is One." God is part of the fabric of the universe, not some strange existence outside of it. You can know God by looking at anything in existence, and every living thing is part of the Body of Christ. "Because there is one loaf, we who are many, are one body, because we share the one loaf."

Neither atheism nor Islam really accepts this. When you lose Unity consciousness, you do not only lose the ability to see God as part of this reality, you lose the ability to see other people as having merit. This precisely what is behind the convert or die mentality that pervades extremist Islam. The person whoes not convert is to you an enemy. Actually, wrong. The person you are about to put to death is made in the image of God and connected to all others. Strictly speaking, that person is YOU, the part of you that refuses to be a part of the regime of Islam. You are killing yourself over and over. This is the true meaning of "do unto other as you would have them do unto you."

So, vonason, I ask you. How would you feel about being molested at age 9?

Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 11-06-2016 at 11:01 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2016, 01:24 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,293,605 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
If you look at Islam, it has striking similarities with atheism.
If you are ignoring, of course, the fact that the CORE foundation of Islam...... that a non-human intentional and intelligent agency is the explanation for the existence of humanity and our universe......... is something atheists do not in general believe AT ALL.

But I guess they are very similar other than the fact they are entirely different.

The title of this thread is whether or not there is evidence a god exists. At this time there is currently NO evidence, arguments, data or reasoning on offer by anyone, much less the OP, to suggest that any non-human intelligent or intentional agency is the explanation for our universe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2016, 05:06 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,871,081 times
Reputation: 996
Irrelevant, Nozz. The distinction is believes in not existing, versus believes in existing but might as well not exist because it's all tacked on.

When the chips are down, and its a choice between ineffable, inscrutable, unrelatable, indoivisible Allah, and the human but very very flawed Muhammad, they always consider Muhammad first.

Islam is a secular political group with a few flimsy notions of afterlife added (which rewards violence and punishes refusal to follow; how does driving a plane into some towers warrant any reward much less virgins), hardcore fatalism (which conveniently removes all responsibility of their actions), and a god who supposedly created everything but rarely has a stake except when Muhammad's wild claims are challenged to sock puppet "yes that is what I said." They are a control group, not a religion.

Religion is "re-ligion" from the same word root as the ligaments that connect stuff in the body. It very literally means to reconnect. But the average Muslim connects with nothing. They dont know how to connect with fellow humans even to have a civil conversation in peace without endlessly quoting scripture verbatim (more in common with military mantra than a belief system) or resorting to violence. They certainly dont have any feeling toward their god, since they cannot understand this deity. The pray five times a day to Allah though? This is called a rote exercise. What if they were early or late one day? Would it make any difference? What if they missed it twice, and only did three times, or one day were prevented from doing at all? Why five? Why those times a day?

Why Islam is Not a Religion > Rebecca Bynum

It looks like a religion, smells like a religion, but in the end it isnt one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2016, 05:21 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,293,605 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Irrelevant, Nozz. The distinction is believes in not existing, versus believes in existing but might as well not exist because it's all tacked on.
Great to see I am still allegedly on "ignore". Not the first time since you put me on ignore that you replied to me directly. Still what you right above is as false as the claim I am on ignore. Because it is not only NOT irrelevant, it is paramount. Because this is the very core of what Islam is (the belief in this non-human intelligent intentional agency) and what Atheism is (the lack of that belief).

To declare the very foundation of both "irrelevant"........ just so you can press the circle peg of your abject nonsense comparison through the square hole........ is just another in the long list of examples of the nonsense that comes out of your posts every time you talk about atheism or atheists.

The only thing I can see that Atheism and Islam have in common, is your total lack of knowledge or understanding of either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2016, 11:47 AM
 
4,431 posts, read 1,660,458 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
If you look at Islam, it has striking similarities with atheism.

But, you ask, how can this be? Does not Islam preach thing quoted above, and indivisable and absolutely transcendent deity? Yes, and this is exactly how.

Islam, unlike Christianity or Judaism, is a Dualism. By that, I do not mean there are two gods.
A student of Philosophy was once having a breakfast with his dad. Mom serves a fried egg to him. He points to the fried egg in front of him and asks his dad.

"How many eggs are here?

Dad says, "one"

Philosopher says, "no, there are actually two eggs here. There is one that is here and there is another one in your subconsciousness that interacts with your consciousness through the exquisite channels of metaphysical world. So you need to think beyond your world of perception to see it.

Dad picks the fried egg from his plate, puts it on a toast and eats in a hurry. He gets up and says, I am getting late from work. You eat the other egg.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2016, 02:38 PM
 
26 posts, read 11,560 times
Reputation: 10
[SIZE=3]Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (Surah 112)

[/SIZE]
It's a simple creed, free of complexity, there is God, that God is the Creator, Sustainer, King of heaven and earth for him, Allah sends down water from the sky, crops out of the ground, God created man

God sent messengers, Allah ordered a few acts of worship, God does not force one on faith in him,
God commanded that we serve, we call him, thank him, appealed to him

God promising paradise for believers, and the disbelievers fire

Now, before that, the Muslims are not forcing anyone to enter into Islam,but the call with wisdom and beautiful preaching;

The evidence that Allah is the only Creator of life may be found in many places in the Qur’an and Sunnah. For example:

"Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the dominion, and He is Able to do all things,
Who has created death and life, that He may test you which of you is best in deed, and He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving."
[al-Mulk 67:1-2]

"Is, then, He Who creates as one who creates not?"
[al-Nahl 16:17]

"Yet they have taken besides Him other gods that created nothing but are themselves created . . ."
[al-Furqaan 25:3]

Allah challenged all of mankind to create even the most insignificant creature, i.e. a fly, but no one could do that and no one ever will. Allah says:

"O mankind! A similitude has been coined, so listen to it (carefully): verily! Those on whom you call besides Allah cannot create (even) a fly, even though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly snatched away a thing from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought."
[al-Hajj 22:73]



* Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and debate with them in the most dignified manner. Your Lord is aware of those who stray from His path, and He is aware of those who are guided.125 Al Nahl

* 21 O people! Worship your Lord who created you and those before you, that you may attain piety.
22 He who made the earth a habitat for you, and the sky a structure, and sends water down from the sky, and brings out fruits thereby, as a sustenance for you. Therefore, do not assign rivals to God while you know.

23 And if you are in doubt about what We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like these, and call your witnesses apart from God, if you are truthful.

24 But if you do not-and you will not-then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.
12-24 Al Baqra


In Verses 68-69, we are told that it is the female bee that makes honey, a very recent bit of knowledge for humans. We know now that male bees die after mating with the queen and live only for about 90 days. Only female bees survive to be the workers, which gather nectar and make honey. This bit of knowledge could never be known to humans before the invention and use of microscopes. It is another piece of evidence that the author of the Holy Quran could never be a human being about 1428 years ago. Rather, He is the All Knowledgeable One. [SIZE=3]And your Lord inspired the female bees to take (build) its houses (hives) on mountains, trees, and in (people's) gardens [/SIZE]
Then (you female bee) eat from all the fruits and (you female bee) follow the ways of your Lord laid down (for you). There emerges from their bellies a drink, varying in colors, in which there is healing (cure) for people. In that, (there) is a sign for a people who give thought (Al-Na'hl, 16: 68-69).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top