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Old 10-28-2016, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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When one reads of the punishments from a human view point, they do seem excessive, unfair and not justified to some people. While we as humans are not capable of comprehending the reasons for Heaven and Hell, perhaps we can come to an acceptable level of understanding.

First we must be aware that it is all about freedom of choice. In order to have that freedom the choices must be clear. Our choices are Heaven or Hell. there is a very clear distinction between the two. Heaven and Hell are exact opposites of each other. There is a clear choice. but even so we really can not comprehend the worse punishment of Hell, that being eternal separation from Allaah(swt). Hell is eternal removal from the love of Allaah(swt) through our own deliberate rejection of him. Heaven is the Epitome of all that is good and the love of Allaah(swt) Hell is the epitome of all that is evil and the absolute, self rejection of Allaah(swt) and his love and Mercy. It is not torture, it is the total removal of Allaah(swt) from yourself through your own free will, knowledgeable choice.

That is my own personal opinion and I speak only for myself. Like all Muslims I do not claim my view is absolutely true. I can only state it is my opinion based upon what I have seen and learned. It may be in error Astagfirullah (May Allah forgive me)

Now looking at some other opinions about Hell:

Quote:
Hell is a place of Punishment or meaningless Torture?

Basic Definition:

Punishment is done for correction or as retribution for a wrongdoing.

Torture is done specifically to cause suffering with no good outcome.
The Issue:

As we know peoples who do sin will be punished by God in hell. However if you look at the concept it's not punishment but a meaningless torture. Because the person will not be given a second chance to avoid those sins so there is no room for correction.

My thoughts on why God would torture people:

God had to bring order to the chaos created by the will of man hence he had to bring the concept of hell into play but because he loves us he might not actually put us in hell but he just wants to scare us.

Or maybe to proof that he is not a liar he might actually burn people in hell for thousands of years or eternity for the sin they cannot commit again.

A meaningless exercise.

So, is hell a place for Punishment or merely meaningless Torture?

It is torture but not really meaningless for the torture is a direct consequence of vices and the sins committed by the person. infatuated Mar 9 '15 at 13:27

Also not everyone will spend in hell for eternity, many will suffer enough until they are purified provided they have some redeeming quality. infatuated Mar 9 '15 at 13:28

Not everyone but some will & no-matter how big the sin is you can not justify eternity of torture, it feels wrong and evil & What do you mean by purified? Can some one commit crime in Heaven for which he should be purified before going to it after torture? Imran Bughio Mar 9 '15 at 14:44

It really depends on the nature of sin. Sins such as rebellion against God and committing atrocities against other men will bring eternal damnation. But in case of believers who are generally inclined towards good but occasionally commit mistakes under the influence of their desires the suffering would be proportional to their sins and would last only so long until they are purified from their vices before enjoying the rewards for their virtues and good deeds. infatuated Mar 9 '15 at 15:16

Punishment is simply an unpleasant consequence of wrongdoing (or perceived wrongdoing). The purpose of punishment isn't included in the definition. Although
purposes of punishment can be correction, prevention, simply acting on the principle of justice, or maybe some combination thereof. Student Mar 9 '15 at 16:55


It is torture but not really meaningless for the torture is a direct consequence of vices and the sins committed by the person. infatuated Mar 9 '15 at 13:27

Also not everyone will spend in hell for eternity, many will suffer enough until they are purified provided they have some redeeming quality. infatuated Mar 9 '15 at 13:28

Not everyone but some will & no-matter how big the sin is you can not justify eternity of torture, it feels wrong and evil & What do you mean by purified? Can some one commit crime in Heaven for which he should be purified before going to it after torture? Imran Bughio Mar 9 '15 at 14:44

It really depends on the nature of sin. Sins such as rebellion against God and committing atrocities against other men will bring eternal damnation. But in case of believers who are generally inclined towards good but occasionally commit mistakes under the influence of their desires the suffering would be proportional to their sins and would last only so long until they are purified from their vices before enjoying the rewards for their virtues and good deeds. infatuated Mar 9 '15 at 15:16

Punishment is simply an unpleasant consequence of wrongdoing (or perceived wrongdoing). The purpose of punishment isn't included in the definition. Although purposes of punishment can be correction, prevention, simply acting on the principle of justice, or maybe some combination thereof. Student Mar 9 '15 at 16:55

Man, seven days ran on bounty, but still not one satisfying answer, that shows, we cannot think like the creator and give reasons, as to why he burns people in hell for eternity. The way we donno how he lets a chicken be eaten by us, the same way we donno why he burns people forever!!!. He creates as he wishes, he rewards as he wishes, he punishes as he wishes. May the creator guide us all. servant-of-Wiser Mar 18 '15 at 12:39

@servantofWiser We don't need to think like the creator, whatever we do (pray to God, or hate him) is completely on the bases of how a human can judge thinks on his own logic. Just because he created us does not mean he can do wrong things to us and in return we call him a Good God. I choose not to obey such cruel God. Imran Bughio Mar 18 '15 at 12:46

@servantofWiser About the bounty, I am not satisfied with any answers but since you gave most effort, time & almost acceptable answer, I am rewarding you the bounty, Thanks. Imran Bughio Mar 18 '15 at 12:48

hey I'm not concerned about the bounty, what I'm saying is the reason why no one could satisfy you is because no one thinks like the creator to give a satisfactory answer by which you would get convinced "why does God burn people in hell for eternity". servant-of-Wiser Mar 18 '15 at 12:50

To be honest we can never justify punishment of hell Makky Aug 8 at 12:09

Hell is a place of Punishment or meaningless Torture? - Islam Stack Exchange

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Old 10-28-2016, 10:00 PM
 
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
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I'm curious where you are getting "hell," all i see is "Hades?" hell has been invented, and your pastor cannot show you hell in the Bible, wadr. Hell is in the Qur'an? Do you have a reference? ty
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Old 10-28-2016, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
I'm curious where you are getting "hell," all i see is "Hades?" hell has been invented, and your pastor cannot show you hell in the Bible, wadr. Hell is in the Qur'an? Do you have a reference? ty
Well for starters I do not have a Pastor, there are no ordained clergy in Islam and I do not believe all that is in the Bible. I place my trust in the Qur'an.

Hell in Arabic is Jahanna which translates into English as Hell. to be more specific the actual translation of Jahanna is "Eternal Fire" Jahanna or variations is found in the Qur'an 102 times

One example where it is found is in Surah 3 ayyat 12

قُل لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَتُغْلَبُونَ وَتُحْشَرُونَ إِلَى جَهَنَّمَ وَبِئْسَ الْمِهَادُ (3:12)

Keep in mind Arabic letters are read from Right to left. Using English letters it is read from left to right

Qul lillatheena kafaroo satughlaboona watuhsharoona ila jahannama wabisa almihadu
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 10-28-2016 at 10:38 PM..
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Old 10-28-2016, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Well for starters I do not have a Pastor, there are no ordained clergy in Islam and I do not believe all that is in the Bible. I place my trust in the Qur'an.

Hell in Arabic is Jahanna which translates into English as Hell. to be more specific the actual translation of Jahanna is "Eternal Fire" Jahanna or variations is found in the Qur'an 102 times

One example where it is found is in Surah 3 ayyat 12

قُل لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَتُغْلَبُونَ وَتُحْشَرُونَ إِلَى جَهَنَّمَ وَبِئْسَ الْمِهَادُ (3:12)

Keep in mind Arabic letters are read from Right to left. Using English letters it is read from left to right

Qul lillatheena kafaroo satughlaboona watuhsharoona ila jahannama wabisa almihadu
English translation of Surah 3 ayyat 12:

Say to those who reject Faith: "Soon will ye be vanquished and gathered together to HELL,-an evil bed indeed (to lie on)! - 3:12 (Y. Ali)
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Old 10-29-2016, 12:13 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
First we must be aware that it is all about freedom of choice.
First

Islam does not know the freedom of choice
This constant from verse
وَكُلَّ إِنسَانٍ أَلْزَمْنَاهُ طَائِرَهُ فِي عُنُقِهِ ۖ وَنُخْرِجُ لَهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ كِتَابًا يَلْقَاهُ مَنشُورًا (13) surat al-esrie -13
The Almighty says: every man Olzimnah what he spent his agent, which is the pivot of happiness or misery of his work in his neck does not Evargah,
Tell me continued bin Abdul higher, he said: Tna son Fadil, from al-Hasan ibn 'Amr Fiqima, the judgment, the Mujahid, in saying (every man Olzimnah plane in the neck) said: No child is born only in his neck and paper which is written naughty or happy. He said: I heard him say: those that they may attain their portion of the book, he said, is what has already
Every man Olzimnah plane in the neck}, meaning by this to say: everyone Olzimnah his work in his neck. Ibn Kathir said here: "Is that the work of the son of Adam, saved it, little or a lot, and writes it day and night, morning and evening."
Muslims disagree on the interpretation of this verse
But verse clear
Man creates his plane
It is written by everything
That is why Islam does not know the freedom of choice
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Old 10-29-2016, 12:26 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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But the punishment
Islam does not know the concept of love
God in Islam is not a lover
It is the enemy of man
Here's a verse
And developed the principles them what you can of power terrorism the enemy of Allah and your enemy
Here God is the enemy of man

So God is the God of Islam is unfair
Because justice do not come from the enemy
When God be Misanthrope
Do you think he could be a god fair

And the Hell in Islam it is awesome
Also Abasherak
The Koran says that every Muslim to visit hell

(وَإِن مِّنكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا -يعني النار-كَانَ عَلَى رَبِّكَ حَتْمًا مَّقْضِيًّا*ثُمَّ نُنَجِّي الَّذِينَ اتَّقَوا وَّنَذَرُ الظَّالِمِينَ فِيهَا جِثِيًّا) (71-72) سورة مريم.
Means Muslims passing them to heaven, not hurt it, some of them going through a jiffy, and some of them goes like lightning, and some of them going through the wind, and some of them passing horses and passengers Kojawad. Conducting their business, nor walk in the fire, the insurer does not enter the fire, but going through the passage does not hurt, it Vabat bridge aboard the hell is going through it people
You must know that the interpretation tries to evade the obvious words
By saying that there is a bridge between hell and paradise
I think that the interpretation pitifully
Interpretation says that all Muslims are walking over hell
Does God does not have a better way to get to paradise
Without going above Hell
With the word contained in Arabic means entry
In conclusion, I wish you happiness in your visit to Hell
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Old 10-29-2016, 04:00 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
But the punishment
Islam does not know the concept of love
God in Islam is not a lover
It is the enemy of man
Here's a verse
And developed the principles them what you can of power terrorism the enemy of Allah and your enemy
Here God is the enemy of man

So God is the God of Islam is unfair
Because justice do not come from the enemy
When God be Misanthrope
Do you think he could be a god fair

And the Hell in Islam it is awesome
Also Abasherak
The Koran says that every Muslim to visit hell

(وَإِن مِّنكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا -يعني النار-كَانَ عَلَى رَبِّكَ حَتْمًا مَّقْضِيًّا*ثُمَّ نُنَجِّي الَّذِينَ اتَّقَوا وَّنَذَرُ الظَّالِمِينَ فِيهَا جِثِيًّا) (71-72) سورة مريم.
Means Muslims passing them to heaven, not hurt it, some of them going through a jiffy, and some of them goes like lightning, and some of them going through the wind, and some of them passing horses and passengers Kojawad. Conducting their business, nor walk in the fire, the insurer does not enter the fire, but going through the passage does not hurt, it Vabat bridge aboard the hell is going through it people
You must know that the interpretation tries to evade the obvious words
By saying that there is a bridge between hell and paradise
I think that the interpretation pitifully
Interpretation says that all Muslims are walking over hell
Does God does not have a better way to get to paradise
Without going above Hell
With the word contained in Arabic means entry
In conclusion, I wish you happiness in your visit to Hell
To begin with Let us look at your rendition of Surah 19 ayyats 71-72

(وَإِن مِّنكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا -يعني النار-كَانَ عَلَى رَبِّكَ حَتْمًا مَّقْضِيًّا*ثُمَّ نُنَجِّي الَّذِينَ اتَّقَوا وَّنَذَرُ الظَّالِمِينَ فِيهَا جِثِيًّا) (71-72) سورة مريم.

A word for word translation is almost nonsensical as it comes out to be:
(If you only normal result I mean, fire-was the Lord inevitably doomed * Then shall save those who fear and vow oppressors where Jthia) (71-72) Maryam.

Looking at what you have posted as Mariam 71-72 does not look much like what is found in the Qur'an
From the Quran it is:


وَإِن مِّنكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا كَانَ عَلَى رَبِّكَ حَتْمًا مَّقْضِيًّا (19:71)


ثُمَّ نُنَجِّي الَّذِينَ اتَّقَوا وَّنَذَرُ الظَّالِمِينَ فِيهَا جِثِيًّا (19:72)


With a direct word for word translation being:

If you only had a normal result of your Lord inevitably doomed (19:71)


Then we shall save those who fear and vow oppressors where Jthia (19:72)

apparently you are using an online translator and are unaware of how poor the translations are. I assume your intentions are good, but you do not speak English and whatever translator you use is doing a very poor job.

19: 71-72 can not be translated, they have to be interpreted. Here are 3 Interpretations. I agree they only approximate the actual meaning, but are much closer than what any online translator does:


And every one of you will come within sight of it: [55] this is, with thy Sustainer, a decree that must be fulfilled. - 19:71 (Asad)
And once again: [56] We shall save [from hell] those who have been conscious of Us; but We shall leave in it the evildoers, on their knees. [57] - 19:72 (Asad)

Not one of you but will pass over it: this is, with thy Lord, a Decree which must be accomplished. - 19:71 (Y. Ali)
But We shall save those who guarded against evil, and We shall leave the wrong-doers therein, (humbled) to their knees. - 19:72 (Y. Ali)

There is not one of you but shall approach it. That is a fixed ordinance of thy Lord. - 19:71 (Picktall)
Then We shall rescue those who kept from evil, and leave the evil-doers crouching there. - 19:72 (Picktall)

While this is all very interesting, it does not answer the question of if you Think the Punishments of Hell are Fair and Justified.
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Old 10-29-2016, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Another Muslim’s opinion as to what Hell is:

Answer:

Before answering your question please note that the description of heaven and hell in the Qur'an was a warning tool that the Almighty used to guide Arabs at the time. These verses are all among mutishabihat (allegorical verses) and therefore we are not sure exactly what happens to us after death. All we know is that there is a hereafter and that our performance in this world determines our destiny in the hereafter.

Is permanent punishment in hell just? - Exploring Islam
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Old 10-29-2016, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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What is the worse aspect of Hell?
It is the knowing that of one’s own free will they have rejected Heaven,
Quote:
Cursed By Allah
The worst punishment for disbelievers and wrongdoers will be the realization that they have failed. They did not heed Allah's guidance and warnings, and thus have earned His wrath. The Arabic word, jahannam, means "a dark storm" or "a stern expression." Both exemplify the seriousness of this punishment.
Description of Hell (Jahannam) in the Quran
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Old 10-29-2016, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
I'm curious where you are getting "hell," all i see is "Hades?" hell has been invented, and your pastor cannot show you hell in the Bible, wadr. Hell is in the Qur'an? Do you have a reference? ty
There is this long explanation I could give about why the concept of punishment/reward for behavior is a spurious concept. The explanation is so difficult to explain that it might be easier to just go with simplified, Reader's Digest scenarios... There are two people. One was born with a substandard intellect, into a poverty-stricken, violent environment full of anger. The other person was born with exceptional intellect, and into a well to-do loving family. Should they both be judged by the same moral yardstick? How about the person who is schizophrenic? How about if two people are schizophrenic and one of them is able to attain medication making him less violent and destructive while the other cannot? People are products of their genetic make-up and environment, both of which are out of the control of the individual. I guess even the condensed Reader's Digest version gets pretty long-winded. There is likely no answer for this philosophical impasse. The simplest answer for this dilemma for a religious person would be to state that God is the judge and he will judge correctly, but to us on earth who choose to ponder such things rather than acquiesce to vague religious doctrine, that kind of rationale provides nothing. It could be there are no good answers, but I for one think it is better to admit there are no answers rather than make-up things that are not supported by actual evidence.
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