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Old 11-20-2016, 10:11 AM
Status: "Stand with Hong Kong" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 7,709,020 times
Reputation: 7819

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
I had most entertaining two pages of posts.
Thank you, Woodrow.
OP, your "friend" is not a Muslim. A Muslim is a person that follows all the canons of that religion with full faith and dedication.
So will be a Christian, or a Sikh, or any other religious person wholeheartedly and honestly accepting such a religion.
Person you are discussing is a hypocrite. Claims to be of a specific religion, faith, while clearly going against its principles.
Then, that person is employing a justifier mind, to pretend that claimed faith is "ok" with hypocrisy.
It is not. This been clearly explained. Not even sure, why this keeps rolling, there is no point in continuation.
Of course there will be rogue "priests" or otherwise clarical types, that will do anything for profit or for whatever personal reasons they have.
But this does not change one basic principle. There is no homosexual marriage in Islam. Period, end of sentence, the rest is justifications of a sin, if not worse.
As a my personal advice, person you are discussing should follow the only voice that is worth following. The Voice of Conscience. That voice is neither Sunni, or Shiite, or Christian, or Buddhist or whatever. It the voice of rightness and reason. I can clearly see that your "friend" is hearing that voice, otherwise, there would have been no reason to justify intentions discussed. Righteous acts come easy and natural. Non-rightous - well, look at the two pages of attempts to justify what is not right.
You are not in a position to decide who identifies as a Moslem, Ukrkoz. The OP is. I don't know what a "justifier" mind is.

I don't see any Moslems jumping to the aid of Moslems who happen to be gay, which, based on reading and experience, is a large number.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Dyo89RyHU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzdPmUHgJ_E

 
Old 11-20-2016, 10:32 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 769,664 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
You are not in a position to decide who identifies as a Moslem, Ukrkoz. The OP is. I don't know what a "justifier" mind is.

I don't see any Moslems jumping to the aid of Moslems who happen to be gay, which, based on reading and experience, is a large number.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Dyo89RyHU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzdPmUHgJ_E
It's not the duty of Islam to accommodate itself to the whims and desires of Muslims. It is the duty of a Muslim to discard and temper his whims and desires to accommodate Islam.
 
Old 11-24-2016, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,781,814 times
Reputation: 4619
Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
A friend of mine here in Southern California is both gay and Sunni Moslem. He wants to marry his Shiite same-sex partner and have what he refers to as a "nikah" covenant marriage. I want to attend his marriage. He explained that he is unable to find a Qadi and Imam to officiate his ceremony (and provide him a contract). This seemed like discrimination to me and I was appalled that this is the case. Surely someone here can inform me on where I should direct him.
Being Homosexual is actually illegal in many countries that are predominantly Muslim. It is actually against the faith to be gay ( don't act so shocked as many other religious still think this way). I would suggest that they just get a regular marriage done. They will likely not be able to get this done easily. They could actually be arrested and thrown in jail for being gay in most Muslim countries ... so I am not sure what bubble they are living in. Islam is really really really behind the times on same sex identity far less marriage. I am Catholic and they are still not okay with this. I wish them the best of luck. Maybe they should just have family say blessing or read something from the Quran about marriage at the cerimony to helo incorporate some faith elements in to it. This a sad reality for people that are gay in many places they are still having to fight for basic things that hetero sexual people that forgranted.
 
Old 11-24-2016, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
Being Homosexual is actually illegal in many countries that are predominantly Muslim. It is actually against the faith to be gay ( don't act so shocked as many other religious still think this way). I would suggest that they just get a regular marriage done. They will likely not be able to get this done easily. They could actually be arrested and thrown in jail for being gay in most Muslim countries ... so I am not sure what bubble they are living in. Islam is really really really behind the times on same sex identity far less marriage. I am Catholic and they are still not okay with this. I wish them the best of luck. Maybe they should just have family say blessing or read something from the Quran about marriage at the cerimony to helo incorporate some faith elements in to it. This a sad reality for people that are gay in many places they are still having to fight for basic things that hetero sexual people that forgranted.
Being Gay is not illegal.

What is illegal is any form of sexual relations between people that do not have a Nikkah (Marriage Contract) A Nikkah can only be between a Man and a Woman, provided they meet the requirements to legally negotiate and sign a Nikkah.
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Old 11-24-2016, 08:26 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 769,664 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
Being Homosexual is actually illegal in many countries that are predominantly Muslim. It is actually against the faith to be gay ( don't act so shocked as many other religious still think this way). I would suggest that they just get a regular marriage done. They will likely not be able to get this done easily. They could actually be arrested and thrown in jail for being gay in most Muslim countries ... so I am not sure what bubble they are living in. Islam is really really really behind the times on same sex identity far less marriage. I am Catholic and they are still not okay with this. I wish them the best of luck. Maybe they should just have family say blessing or read something from the Quran about marriage at the cerimony to helo incorporate some faith elements in to it. This a sad reality for people that are gay in many places they are still having to fight for basic things that hetero sexual people that forgranted.
Islam is "behind the times"? This is a religion with an inalienable and unalterable divine law... it's not philosophy or a political party.
 
Old 11-28-2016, 09:26 PM
Status: "Stand with Hong Kong" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 7,709,020 times
Reputation: 7819
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
Islam is "behind the times"? This is a religion with an inalienable and unalterable divine law... it's not philosophy or a political party.
Oh yeah, you're right. Anything "new" is bida.
 
Old 11-29-2016, 07:48 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 769,664 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
Oh yeah, you're right. Anything "new" is bida.
Ridiculous. We're talking about homosexuality, not wearing jeans versus a thobe or riding in a car versus riding a camel.

Homosexuality is expressly and patently forbidden to practice in Islam. End of story, no room for conversation or debate whatsoever.
 
Old 11-30-2016, 11:43 AM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,168,803 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
Islam is "behind the times"? This is a religion with an inalienable and unalterable divine law... it's not philosophy or a political party.
Nevertheless, it is an ideology. It didn't exist for about a million years of humanity's existence. And now, yes, the ideology is behind the times. Its sexist and homophobic. And since religious ideologies are manmade and change with their interpretation, it is also legitimate to say it is behind the times in any event.
 
Old 11-30-2016, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Nevertheless, it is an ideology. It didn't exist for about a million years of humanity's existence. And now, yes, the ideology is behind the times. Its sexist and homophobic. And since religious ideologies are manmade and change with their interpretation, it is also legitimate to say it is behind the times in any event.
Islam (Sumission to God(swt) ) has existed since before the creation of Adam(pbuh) and is attempted by all who worship God(swt) those of us that acknowledge being Muslim (Muslim is the name for anyone who submits to God(swt)) believe the proper way to perform Islam is by following the 5 Pillars of Faith.
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Old 11-30-2016, 12:34 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 769,664 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Nevertheless, it is an ideology. It didn't exist for about a million years of humanity's existence. And now, yes, the ideology is behind the times. Its sexist and homophobic. And since religious ideologies are manmade and change with their interpretation, it is also legitimate to say it is behind the times in any event.
Agree with Woodrow above and your premise that it is man-made is your belief, it has no applicability to Muslims or this discussion as we are discussing what is the Islamic ruling over a certain topic, not whether Islam = "Modern" XYZ Philosophy of Ethics.
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