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Old 12-28-2016, 09:47 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 663,807 times
Reputation: 204

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I can not see into your thoughts or intentions, but based upon what you have just written you seem to have a double standard for Muslims and non-Muslims.

You are conducting a very passionate Jihad against Islam while condemning the Qur'an for using the same tools and methods to protect Islam. Evil minded non-Muslims could take your words as justification for committing acts of violence against Muslims.

Reading your post leaves me with the impression you believe "The problem is the very existence of Muslims are by default a threat to non-belief that need to be eliminated."

An evil minded non-Muslim could find justification for killing Muslims by using your Jihad as an example. An evil minded person will tend to find justification for their actions in nearly anything they read.

In real life, SOME evil prone Non-Believers are already fighting and terrifying Muslims merely because Muslims desire Halal foods and recognition of some non-Criminal Shariah laws and that is deemed an attack against non-Believers. So these evil prone Non-Believerss fight and kill Muslims. There are many other reasons, e.g. modern education [Hate groups,anti-Islamic propaganda, stereotyping] fitna by other ideology, occupation by refugees, Muslim dictators, etc. are deemed to be an an offensive move, i.e. "attack" on non-Believers, thus there is justifications to fight and kill Muslims.

Now WHO ONE EARTH can counter and judge these evil prone non-Believers are wrong?
Since Justice will not appear on Earth to judge them, these evil prone non-Believers will continue to read stereotypical propaganda and be inspired to fight the Muslims to please Society with the optimism they will achieve world Peace..
I think you want to send the charge to our friendContinuum Esquire

For this reason
I want to ask the next question
Scientists are seeking to eradicate diseases
I believe that Islam is one of those diseases and must be eradicated
Because Islam is the thought of a patient
The best way to Asisal Islam is thought
We do not call for murder
And also not calling for war
But we say that the Quran and its teachings are of the most serious diseases in human history
It is humanity to fight this evil

When the Koran says انما المشركون نجس
That all men are impure
Is this speech is permitted
Are all humans impure
Only Muslims impure
So duplication is in the Koran standards
When mankind is divided into infidels and heathens
And between Muslims
When Islam declares that fight the polytheists and infidels from the core of his teachings
This is a threat to humanity
When the prophet declares that people will fight even declare their Islam
This is a threat to humanity
When you judge the name of God and for God Tjahidon
This risk
Islam disease afflicted by humanitarian
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:20 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 663,807 times
Reputation: 204
Offer you the opinion of a professor of Muslims in Jihad
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Mohammed bin Abdulaziz Al-Khudairi
Teachers College Department of Quranic Studies

[/SIZE]Interview from the Holy Jihad for the sake of God

Jihad for the sake of God pinnacle of Islam, and the publisher of his banner, and protector of Hama, but do not do this religion on earth but its

We have enemies keen to tarnish the image of jihad and the mujahideen and Muslims Takvel him, and put obstacles without him, and the Palace meant only to defend

I have enemies keen to tarnish the image of jihad and the mujahedeen, and the dimensions of the Muslims with him, and put obstacles without him, and the Palace means the only defense,

Whatch out
Woodrow LI
ana
kalapa

And the Palace meant only to defend
I have enemies keen to tarnish the image of jihad and the mujahedeen, and the dimensions of the Muslims with him, and put obstacles without him, and the Palace means the only defense,
Because they know that when jihad was his image that it was in the first generation, it will not list them, and will not appreciate to withstand creep hordes right that promised victory and empowerment (Inasrn God Inzareth) (Hajj 40)
Special meaning: the effort to fight the infidels to uphold the word of God and the texts contained sometimes shows on the whole as in the verse
But if the term jihad launched what is meant by killing infidels to uphold the word of God said Averroes in the premise (1/369)<< Jihad for God's sake if not fired is fired only to struggle with the infidels by the sword until they enter Islam or they pay tribute out of hand and are submissive and

And not jihad of the soul is the greater jihad at all as claimed by some, انتبه يا خليفة

Valtdhira jihad of self may be diabolical tricks Alsarv to Muslims for jihad enemies,
If you want the second there is no doubt that jihad is the biggest and the best of it,
As for his own sense: we say: It is divided into two parts:
Section I: Jihad request: a request from the infidels in their own homes and invite them to Islam and to fight them if they do not submit to the rule of Islam, and that the imposition of the adequacy of the Muslims if he has done enough to be his sin waived for the rest
Intimidation of leaving Jihad and statement of consequences:
Jihad with the ability to leave it a major sin, but no disagreement among scientists that any sect declined Jihad infidels or hit them tribute
Fourth: Jihad stages of legislation:
Four stages

So this is the word and the position of Muslim Scholars of Jihad legislation
So why do you want to mislead people and deny Jihad
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:10 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,113 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The "tone" has been ringing in your mind all the time.
It is ringing in the mind of the evil prone Muslims as based on their understanding of what is revealed in the Quran. As had stated, there are 3,400++ verses laden with evil elements of various degrees.

Quote:
[25.52] So do not obey/follow the unbelievers, and jahid (strive) (against) them with it greater jihad.
You have no idea what does greater jihad mean. How are you going to know what is meant by "bihi" ("with it")? Perhaps you haven't realized yet that I am striving here against you greater jihad with it (with the guidance of Qur'aan).

In the verse [25:52], it is "jihad" and not "jihad against". Greater jihad is not against others but jihad against one's Self (Nafs). It is "jahid" that is (against) polytheists (mushrikeen) that you mistakenly regard infidels like any non-Muslim. There is no mention or even an hint of war or attack on infidels but mere striving because of what the infidels were saying. Just read and understand the verses properly if you want your project to be credible.

It is obvious what you had said. Now you are pleading ignorance about greater (kabeeran) jihad and minor jihad. Either you did not know about greater jihad or you deliberately tried to present it as "evilish" action of Muslims. Which one is true?
You are pulling a fast one as usual. I am well aware of “al-jihad al-asghar” and “al-jihad al-akbar.”

Note the phrase is wajāhid'hum وَجَاهِدْهُمْ which word for word is ‘strive them.’
Since this is followed immediately from disbelievers [infidels] then “them” refer to ‘infidels’.
‘Strive’ in relation to “infidels” is most appropriate phrased as ‘strive against infidels.’
The meaning of the phrase is thus ‘strive [against] them [the infidels]’

What follows is the ‘striving against infidels’ would allude to striving with greater strength [kabiran] and not ‘greater jihad’ as in the wider sense, i.e. al-jihad al-akbar.

Note;
In fact, all four schools of Sunni jurisprudence (Fiqh) as well as the Shi'ite tradition make no reference at all to the "greater" jihad, only the lesser. So even before examining the evidence against the validity of this hadith, it is known that the concept of the greater jihad is unorthodox and heretical to the majority of the world's Muslims.
Can you prove the above wrong.

There is no where in the Quran that emphasize on al-jihad al-akbar.

I note you are very fond of twisting the intended meaning of Allah as in the Quran. I believe this is a serious sin which angered Allah when he accused the Jews, Christians and others of corrupting the words and texts of the original revelations.

Quote:
When the verses were revealed to the believers, those believers knew which infidels (polytheists) are mentioned in these verses. Even present readers with any sense would know which infidels are mentioned in these verses. Do you know which agreement (treaty, covenant) with polytheists is mentioned in the verse 9:4? Is this agreement immutable. Is the agreement in 9:7 immutable?

You have no clue as to the issue at the time and are just imagining all kind of bad things done to "infidels" when they were so loving towards Muhammad and Muslims. With this kind of preconceived ideas, your project is certain to fail and bite the dust or a shredder makes a meal of it.
Obviously the examples of treaty mentioned in the stories are not immutable to the present.
As I had stated the stories of old and those during Muhammad’s time are supposed to present the principles and doctrines as immutable and eternal.
What the readers are supposed to understand are the doctrines and principles.
It is just like reading Aesop Fables, the things, cartoon-like events mentioned [e.g. grasshopper and the ant] are not immutable but the extracted morals from the stories are the most critical and supposedly eternal.

The above point is the same for the stories in the Quran from those of Adam to the Qureshi, Jews and Christians during Muhammad’s time.


Quote:
And Trump against Mosleums?
Overall, I find Trump’s behavior very weird and I don’t agree with most things he said.
Trump’s point [if you listen fully] was, because of the glaring evidence of evils from SOME Muslims, there was need to restrict Muslims immigrations and visits till they understand what the hell is going on.
I don’t agree with his use of the term “Muslims” in general [hasty generalization]. I have always insisted, the focus of the blame should not be on the Muslims as unfortunate human being who were born with an active evil tendency.
Rightly Trump should focus on Islam the ideology and only part of Islam and not the whole of Islam.
From the glaring evidence of evils and violence committed by SOME Muslims, any person will automatically and naturally form an initial link. The proper thing to do is to analyze the effects to causes and find out the root causes. This is what I had done.

The problem with politicians is they are always generalizing without giving specific qualification. That is what they do and most of them do not mean it. Even you cannot deny you have personally been getting involved in hasty generalizations. It a habit without serious intention. As for me because religion especially with Islam and Muslim is SO sensitive, I always take a lot of effort to quality, SOME [not all] Muslims, part [not whole] of Islam. Surely you would have read of these from my posts??

Quote:
You tell me which of the four verses with the word "jihad" in them is "jihad" that means attacking the infidels. If you can't, you too are brainwashed to believe so by the politicians and western media.
I have done enough research to do my own independent thinking than be brainwashed by others. On the other hand you are the one who is brainwashed due to serious emotional and psychological attachments to the verses because of desperation to deal with the inherent existential dilemma.

As for the 4 verses with the verbal noun ‘Jihad’ two are striving in relation to the religion. The other two 25:52 and 60:1 are not specific about attacking infidels but lead Muslims readers into an antagonistic posturing position.

The following verses related ‘jihad’ [in different grammatical element] with sabil, i.e. the way of God.
4:95 the ones who struggle in the way of God with
5:35 an approach to Him and struggle in His way
5:54 They struggle in the way of God and they
60:1 been going forth struggling in My way and
61:11 Messenger and struggle in the way of God
8:74 emigrated and struggled in the way of God
9:19 Day and struggled in the way of God
The above verses also do not mentioned any specific actions re attacking infidels. Lead Muslims reader into an antagonistic posturing position.

Btw, I have never posted and assert that jihad [and its family of words] is directly responsible in commanding evil prone to commit evils.

What I have stated is the tsunami of the 3,400++ verses with evil laden elements of various degrees combined in various interactions, culminated in inspiring SOME Muslims to commit evils. I agree I will have to justify this point in full. [not yet].

The other more direct verses [a sample] that triggers SOME Muslims to fight are the following;
2:190 fight in the Way of God those who fight you
2:244 fight in the Way of God and know that God
2:246 for us and we will fight in the way of God
2:246 Why should we not fight in the way of God
3:13 one faction fights in the way of God and the
3:167 Approach now! Fight in the way of God
4:74 fight in the way of God those who sell this
4:74 whoever fights in the way of God, then is
4:75 why should you not fight in the way of God
4:76 Those ungrateful fight in the way of deities, therefore resist them.
4:76 Those who believed fight in the way of God
4:84 fight thou in the way of God. Thou art not
61:4 God loves those who fight in His way, ranged
73:20 of God and others fight in the way of God
9:111 the Garden! They fight in the way of God
2:154 those who are slain in the way of God
3:157 if you were slain in the way of God or died
3:169 those who were slain in the way of God to be
47:4 As for those who were to be slain in the way
There are more of the above.

Quote:
You ignored 12 verses from 52:1 to 25:52 to reach your faulty conclusion about 25:52:

[25.1] Blessed is He Who sent down the Furqan upon His servant that he may be a warner to the nations.
[25.4] And those who disbelieve say: This is nothing but a lie which he has forged, and other people have helped him at it; so indeed they have done injustice and (uttered) a falsehood.
[25.5] And they say: The stories of the ancients-- he has got them written-- so these are read out to him morning and evening.
[25.7] And they say: What is the matter with this messenger that he eats food and goes about in the markets; why has not an angel been sent down to him, so that he should have been a warner with him?
[25.8] Or (why is not) a treasure sent down to him, or he is made to have a garden from which he should eat? And the unjust say: You do not follow any but a man deprived of reason.
[25.21] And those who do not hope for Our meeting, say: Why have not angels been sent down upon us, or (why) do we not see our Lord? Now certainly they are too proud of themselves and have revolted in great revolt.
[25.30] And the messenger cried out: O my Lord! Surely my people have treated this Quran as a forsaken thing.
[25.31] And thus have We made for every prophet an enemy from among the sinners and sufficient is your Lord as a Guide and a Helper.
[25.32] And those who disbelieve say: Why has not the Qur'an been revealed to him all at once? Thus, that We may strengthen your heart by it and We have arranged it well in arranging.
[25.33] And they shall not bring to you any argument, but We have brought to you (one) with truth and best in significance.
[25.50] And certainly We have repeated this to them that they may be mindful, but the greater number of men do not consent to aught except denying.
[25.51] And if We had pleased We would certainly have raised a warner in every town.
[25.52] So do not obey/follow the unbelievers, and strive
(against) them with it greater jihad.

Now the onus is upon you to quote the verses between 25:1 and 25:52 that are about offensive "jihad" against peaceful infidels by the Muslims. Let's see where you get your understanding of offensive "jihad" from!

As there was no warfare after the first twelve or so verses were revealed, there has been peace in Mecca since then. The other verses are about the time before that when infidels had been waging wars on Muslims. Once they aaked for forgiveness, Muhammad and Muslims forgot them. ALLAHU AKBAR.
I have read Chapter 25 many times.
What you have done is taking the verses out their context.
25:1 is part of the set of verses introducing Moses as a warner against the so called condemned evils of the infidels.
25:4 condemned the infidels for mocking the messengers i.e. done injustice. This generate a very antagonistic feelings among the believers towards the infidels. Since there is injustice against Islam therefore the believers has the right as sanctioned by Allah to fight and correct what is wronged.

If you read 25:1-51 you will note there is a very dangerous “Us versus Them” theme where believers are praised and infidels are condemned with an intense feelings of enmity, hatred, contempt, animosity, antagonism with doses of aggression towards the infidels.

So it culminate in 25:52 giving one big brew of hatred and believers are exhorted to strive against infidels with greater intensity.

The point is a wise God should never stoke such animosity in believers where SOME natural evil prone Muslims will be triggered into committing evils and violence naturally in the zeal to please Allah to ensure a path to Paradise and avoid Hell.

Quote:
So an offensive move by the infidels against Muslims is not offensive jihad against Muslims but a defensive jihad by Muslims with the Qur'aan is offensive to you. Right!
When any human is attacked, it is only natural and instinctual that they should defend themselves of run from the dangers.
In fact such a defense mechanism is so instinctual that there is no need for it to be taught or mention in the holy text which can be misinterpreted.

However if one's ideology is attack it is not morally right to counter with violence. If one's religious ideology is the truth, it will stand up to whatever the criticism, and the truth will prevails eventually.
Currently, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and other religions are attacked ideologically and intellectual from all left, right and all corners but they do not counter attack with physical violence.
What is religious is a very personal matter between one and God [if exists] and no other thoughts and ideas should be an offense.

What you don't realize is what is seen as an offensive move by infidels is actually started by zealous Muslims who want to proselytized their religion.
Muslims have been brainwashed by the Quran to believe their Islam is superior, conquer and will dominate over all other useless low grade religion.
So the point is how can Islam conquer and dominate other religoins if if they do not initiate proselytization and attacks on other religions.
It is from such arrogance, proselytization, attacks on other religions that provoke the other religions to defend themselves and also counter mock each other. With such, Muslims blame others for starting the attack when they and their religion are the ones who started it.

Quote:
You left out the next verse:

[4.75] And what reason have you that you should not fight in the way of Allah and of the weak among the men and the women and the children, (of) those who say: Our Lord! Cause us to go forth from this town, whose people are zalim (oppressors/cruel), and give us from Thee a guardian and give us from Thee a helper.

Fighting in defense of those weak (old) men, women and children being attacked/oppressed and subjected to cruelty is not offensive but in their defense.
My purpose with 4:76 is to demonstrate that infidels are condemned as always in the aggressive mode because they jihad for their deities. Because this Quran statement of 4:76 are like those used by politicians like Trump etc. i.e. hasty generalization without qualifications, all infidels are condemned in one lot and such verses influenced SOME evil prone Muslims to hate all infidels regardless.

4:75 is before 4:76 and exhort believers to fight [& kill] in the event of weak among men, women, crying children. There are 1.5 billion Muslims around the world but like all human beings they are likely to encounters all sorts of confrontations and violence due to various reasons, e.g. ethnic, property, boundary, etc. In a secular case, these problems would be confined to the local area.

Now the problem is 4:75 is it amplify and increase more evils and violence. For example what happened in Afghanistan, Iraq, Southern Thailand, Southern Philippine, Bosnia and other similar areas are actually localized political and ethnic problems. But because of 4:75, it inspired SOME evil prone Muslims from all over the world to join in those fights and make the problem larger and worse.
I read recently Jihadists from Saudis are going into Myanmar to stir up trouble in the guise of 4:75 to help other Muslims.
In contrast note the Buddhist of Tibet are sufferings but we do not read of Buddhists [evil prone] fighting the Chinese government in China and their interest all over the world on a daily basis.
So why does such evils infect Only SOME Muslims [potential 300 millions]? The obvious hypothesis is, it must have something to do with the ideology and this can be easily proven with evil laden texts from the Quran.

Quote:
Once again, you left out a verse in the middle of these verses.

[71.25] Because of their sins they were drowned, then made to enter fire, so they did not find any helpers besides Allah.


Muslims did not drown them, did they? Where is your imagined "evilish" jihad in there?
It was not done with purpose. I so happened to pull those verses from my source and 71:25 was not there in the first place.

Your views is irrelevant to the point.
The point here is the infidels were drowned because their disbelief.
This example generate contempt for disbelievers anywhere and any time.
In a way it is corrupting the minds of believers with violence and SOME will be affected by it.

As I had said, 50 verses will not make much of an impact, but these verses together with the other 3,400 evil laden verses of different degrees will have a real impact on SOME evil prone Muslims.

Note various researches on how excessive exposure to violent materials has a catalytic effect on children and adult who are already prone to evils and violence.

Quote:
Is that the best you could find about offensive jihad in the Qur'aan? I feel so sorry that you have taken on a project that you are certain to fail in with this kind of Qur'aanic knowledge about "jihad".

Show me one verse in chapter 9 that requires Muslims to do offensive "jihad" on peaceful infidels.
As I had said, 50 verses will not make much of an impact, but these verses together with the other 3,400 evil laden verses of different degrees will have a real impact on SOME evil prone Muslims.

Quote:
Where is offensive "jihad" in these verses [60:1-3]?
60:1-3 set an offensive mode and influence on evil prone readers of the Quran.
1. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Choose not My enemy [infidels] and your enemy [infidels] for friends*.
Do ye [Muslims] give them [infidels] friendship [] [tul'qūna ilayhim offering them] [love, bonding, bil-mawadati بِالْمَوَدَّةِ و د د ] when they [infidels] disbelieve in that [revelation Quran] truth which hath come unto you [Muslims], driving out the messenger and you [Muslims] because ye [Muslims] believe in Allah, your Lord?
If ye [Muslims] have come forth to strive [jihad] in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them [infidels] not friendship).
Do ye [Muslims] show friendship unto them [infidels] in secret, when I am best Aware of what ye [Muslims] hide and what ye proclaim?
And whosoever [Muslim] doeth it among you, be verily hath strayed from the right way.
You are very blind to the above.
Any one who read the above will note it is full of contempt to infidels with words like “enemies” do not friend infidels because they are evil.
Do not befriend infidels but strive in Allah Way which include evils and violence is tons of verses in the Quran.
Infidels are even threaten if they secretly befriend non-Muslims. Allah will know if they do so even secretly and they will be sent to Hell.
A wise God would never produce such an evil and ugly verse.

Quote:
60:8-9 is of course to be complied with for eternity on earth. Now you may pick and choose which is not for eternity and which is of less weightage and which is not suitable for your project about offensive "jihad".
You will have to read 60:1 together with 60:8-9 and the net effect is still condemnation and antagonism towards infidels.
How can Muslims show kindness [60:8] to infidels if they are not supposed to befriend them [60:1] in the first place. This show that 60:8-9 is useless, ineffective and moot.
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,113 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
Your argument amounts to, "Muslims do bad things, therefore Islam must be flawed".

That logic doesn't work. Muslims do bad things and therefore Muslims are flawed. I know Muslims who drink alcohol and have girlfriends, that doesn't mean that those are tenets of Islam.
You are inventing your own straw man to condemn others.

Often when we get more serious, most who critique Islam [partly] and not Muslims is they will produce quotes from the Quran used by jihadists themselves.

Many jihadists who commit evils and violence will justify their deeds by saying, my Quran and Allah say so.

Unless it is a very obvious error, the problem is when the jihadists claim to commit evils and violence on non-Muslims they are doing it in the belief they are doing their duty to please Allah so they can go to Paradise and avoid Hell.
The question is, who on Earth can judge they are wrong.
Can you be the judge and tell them they are wrong?
No, you as a slave of Allah cannot do that.

Only Allah alone can judge on Judgment Day.
But there is no way Allah will appear on Earth to judge them in front of all people.
Allah will only judge them on Judgment Day.
It appear that Judgment Day has not happened and will not likely happened.
Therefore jihadists will continue to commit evils and violence on non-Muslims and even Muslims who are deemed hypocrites and apostates.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Offer you the opinion of a professor of Muslims in Jihad
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Mohammed bin Abdulaziz Al-Khudairi
Teachers College Department of Quranic Studies

[/SIZE]Interview from the Holy Jihad for the sake of God

Jihad for the sake of God pinnacle of Islam, and the publisher of his banner, and protector of Hama, but do not do this religion on earth but its

We have enemies keen to tarnish the image of jihad and the mujahideen and Muslims Takvel him, and put obstacles without him, and the Palace meant only to defend

I have enemies keen to tarnish the image of jihad and the mujahedeen, and the dimensions of the Muslims with him, and put obstacles without him, and the Palace means the only defense,

Whatch out
Woodrow LI
ana
kalapa

And the Palace meant only to defend
I have enemies keen to tarnish the image of jihad and the mujahedeen, and the dimensions of the Muslims with him, and put obstacles without him, and the Palace means the only defense,
Because they know that when jihad was his image that it was in the first generation, it will not list them, and will not appreciate to withstand creep hordes right that promised victory and empowerment (Inasrn God Inzareth) (Hajj 40)
Special meaning: the effort to fight the infidels to uphold the word of God and the texts contained sometimes shows on the whole as in the verse
But if the term jihad launched what is meant by killing infidels to uphold the word of God said Averroes in the premise (1/369)<< Jihad for God's sake if not fired is fired only to struggle with the infidels by the sword until they enter Islam or they pay tribute out of hand and are submissive and

And not jihad of the soul is the greater jihad at all as claimed by some, انتبه يا خليفة

Valtdhira jihad of self may be diabolical tricks Alsarv to Muslims for jihad enemies,
If you want the second there is no doubt that jihad is the biggest and the best of it,
As for his own sense: we say: It is divided into two parts:
Section I: Jihad request: a request from the infidels in their own homes and invite them to Islam and to fight them if they do not submit to the rule of Islam, and that the imposition of the adequacy of the Muslims if he has done enough to be his sin waived for the rest
Intimidation of leaving Jihad and statement of consequences:
Jihad with the ability to leave it a major sin, but no disagreement among scientists that any sect declined Jihad infidels or hit them tribute
Fourth: Jihad stages of legislation:
Four stages

So this is the word and the position of Muslim Scholars of Jihad legislation
So why do you want to mislead people and deny Jihad
My friend you appear to be in a very strong Jihad to destroy Islam by any means available to you.

At the same time it is my jihad to defend Islam by peaceful means and to do my best to point out where I find error.

Perhaps if you can understand you are fighting in the promotion of your beliefs(engaging in aggressive Jihad), you will understand that Jihad is not a command for violence
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:48 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is ringing in the mind of the evil prone Muslims as based on their understanding of what is revealed in the Quran. As had stated, there are 3,400++ verses laden with evil elements of various degrees.
And you can’t hear the tone ringing in the minds of the vast majority of Muslims but you can readily hear the tone in a minority of Muslim ears. Are you one of them? Has anyone made you hear the same tone? Why are you just making it up about them but ignoring all others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are pulling a fast one as usual. I am well aware of “al-jihad al-asghar” and “al-jihad al-akbar.”
I don’t believe you WERE “well aware” of difference in “jihad” until you checked now after the information I gave you. You had to check with wiki to see. In your mind,it was just “evilish” jihad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note the phrase is wajāhid'hum وَجَاهِدْهُمْ which word for word is ‘strive them.’
Since this is followed immediately from disbelievers [infidels] then “them” refer to ‘infidels’.
‘Strive’ in relation to “infidels” is most appropriate phrased as ‘strive against infidels.’
The meaning of the phrase is thus ‘strive [against] them [the infidels]’
And what about, “do not obey the kuffar” before “struggle against” them? Why are you ignoring that?

Does “do not obey the kuffar” mean “kill them”, “attack them”, “commit genocide of them”?

Further, what is meant by “jahid (against) them with it, great jihad?

There isn’t even a hint of warfare against the kuffar (the kuffar and not kuffar) in this verse with the word “jihad” in it.

I can see why you can’t understand these verses other than “evil elements” because you have been brainwashed by the politicians and the western media to believe that “jihad” mean “evilish” killings. The blind ones have been led by the half blind ones about “jihad”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What follows is the ‘striving against infidels’ would allude to striving with greater strength [kabiran] and not ‘greater jihad’ as in the wider sense, i.e. al-jihad al-akbar.
”Al-Jihad al-akbar” is the jihad that is akbar (kabiran). There is no mention of “great strength” in it. Your thinking of “great strength” is a preconceived idea that you had even before reading this verse properly. Thus you are fitting your preconceive ideas into these verses. As a result, your project is doomed to utter failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note;
In fact, all four schools of Sunni jurisprudence (Fiqh) as well as the Shi'ite tradition make no reference at all to the "greater" jihad, only the lesser. So even before examining the evidence against the validity of this hadith, it is known that the concept of the greater jihad is unorthodox and heretical to the majority of the world's Muslims.
I can see that wiki is now trying to qualify the jihadists when the jihadists isn’t even mentioned in the Qur’an. It isn’t mentioned in the Qur’aan because “jihad” mentioned in the 4 verses of the Qur’an IS not warfare against peaceful infidels but a personal struggle to stay on the path of Allah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Can you prove the above wrong.
The Qur’an proves it wrong because none of the four verses in the Qur’aan with the word “jihad” in them are about warfare against peaceful kuffar/infidels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There is no where in the Quran that emphasize on al-jihad al-akbar.
Unless you ignore the Qur’aan 25:52 with “jihad kabiran”!
“jihadan kabiran” IS al-jihad al-akbar. You did not know that, did you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I note you are very fond of twisting the intended meaning of Allah as in the Quran. I believe this is a serious sin which angered Allah when he accused the Jews, Christians and others of corrupting the words and texts of the original revelations.
It is a great sin to change the real meanings of 25:52 and “jihadan kabiran” to warfare on peaceful infidels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Obviously the examples of treaty mentioned in the stories are not immutable to the present.
Then stop saying that the Qur’aan is immutable!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
As I had stated the stories of old and those during Muhammad’s time are supposed to present the principles and doctrines as immutable and eternal.
That must be your disclaimer against your ignorance about what is immutable and what is not immutable in the Qur’aan.

A prince (king’s son) began to fight with a servant’s son and they both fell down on the ground with prince underneath the servant’s son. In order to declare that he won the fight, the prince shouted, “my leg is still on top of you”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What the readers are supposed to understand are the doctrines and principles.
It is good to understand them rather them learn words of the Qur’aan and their usage from the western politicians and media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I have done enough research to do my own independent thinking than be brainwashed by others.
You have been brainwashed by others about the word “jihad” and what it means. There isn’t even one verse in the Qur’an with the word “jihad” that means the jihad politicians and western media have been broadcasting to the masses for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
On the other hand you are the one who is brainwashed due to serious emotional and psychological attachments to the verses because of desperation to deal with the inherent existential dilemma.
In this issue, I am telling you about my jihadan kabiran (25:52). I am speaking from my experience and you are speaking in ignorance about jihadan kabiran.
You need to get this idea out of your mind that everyone who does jihad is trying to kill peaceful infidels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
As for the 4 verses with the verbal noun ‘Jihad’ two are striving in relation to the religion. The other two 25:52 and 60:1 are not specific about attacking infidels but lead Muslims readers into an antagonistic posturing position.
You speak for yourself, and not for Muslim. None of them are for “evilish” jihad as warfare against the peaceful infidels. All 4 verses with noun ‘jihad’ are striving/struggling in relation to the deen and in defensive manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The following verses related ‘jihad’ [in different grammatical element] with sabil, i.e. the way of God.
4:95 the ones who struggle in the way of God with
5:35 an approach to Him and struggle in His way
5:54 They struggle in the way of God and they
60:1 been going forth struggling in My way and
61:11 Messenger and struggle in the way of God
8:74 emigrated and struggled in the way of God
9:19 Day and struggled in the way of God
The above verses also do not mentioned any specific actions re attacking infidels. Lead Muslims reader into an antagonistic posturing position.
(a) The word “jihad” is not in them except in 60:1. Did you notice it?

(b) We are talking here about “jihad” having spoken by the politicians and the western media for years and being expressed accordingly by you here. There is no comparison between your perception of “jihad” and the real jihad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Btw, I have never posted and assert that jihad [and its family of words] is directly responsible in commanding evil prone to commit evils.
What else have you been suggesting about “jihad” then? Twisting them to give them your own meanings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What I have stated is the tsunami of the 3,400++ verses with evil laden elements of various degrees combined in various interactions, culminated in inspiring SOME Muslims to commit evils. I agree I will have to justify this point in full. [not yet].
Yes, in full.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The other more direct verses [a sample] that triggers SOME Muslims to fight are the following;
2:190 fight in the Way of God those who fight you
2:244 fight in the Way of God and know that God
2:246 for us and we will fight in the way of God
2:246 Why should we not fight in the way of God
3:13 one faction fights in the way of God and the
3:167 Approach now! Fight in the way of God
4:74 fight in the way of God those who sell this
4:74 whoever fights in the way of God, then is
4:75 why should you not fight in the way of God
4:76 Those ungrateful fight in the way of deities, therefore resist them.
4:76 Those who believed fight in the way of God
4:84 fight thou in the way of God. Thou art not
61:4 God loves those who fight in His way, ranged
73:20 of God and others fight in the way of God
9:111 the Garden! They fight in the way of God
2:154 those who are slain in the way of God
3:157 if you were slain in the way of God or died
3:169 those who were slain in the way of God to be
47:4 As for those who were to be slain in the way
There are more of the above.
Which of them have “jihad” mentioned in them?
Perhaps this one that you partly quoted with the word “fight” in it:

[4.75] And what reason have you that you should not fight in the way of Allah and of the weak among the men and the women and the children, (of) those who say: Our Lord! Cause us to go forth from this town, whose people are oppressors, and give us from Thee a guardian and give us from Thee a helper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I have read Chapter 25 many times.
What you have done is taking the verses out their context.
So now you remember the context is important. Yes? Are these verses not part of the context of the Qur’aan? Why don’t you want to mention them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
25:1 is part of the set of verses introducing Moses as a warner against the so called condemned evils of the infidels.
Your ignorance about the Qur’aan is clear in your statement here. This verse is not about the Furqan to Moses and Aaron (21:48) but the Furqan to messenger Muhammad (the Qur’aan 3:3, 25:1).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
25:4 condemned the infidels for mocking the messengers i.e. done injustice. This generate a very antagonistic feelings among the believers towards the infidels. Since there is injustice against Islam therefore the believers has the right as sanctioned by Allah to fight and correct what is wronged.
Nothing about fight or jihad in this verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If you read 25:1-51 you will note there is a very dangerous “Us versus Them” theme where believers are praised and infidels are condemned with an intense feelings of enmity, hatred, contempt, animosity, antagonism with doses of aggression towards the infidels.
And you are blind to hatred of the infidels against the Qur’aan. You are carrying on with that hatred because you do not believe in Allah and the Qur’aan tells us about believing Allah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
So it culminate in 25:52 giving one big brew of hatred and believers are exhorted to strive against infidels with greater intensity.
Greater intensity? Where from did you get that charge against the Qur’aan of promoting “greater intensity”?

You ignorantly called “jihadan kabiran” a “greater intensity”, which means, “jihad” in your mind is now “intensity”.

Your knowledge about “jihad” and, therefore, about the Qur’aan is now in serious question here. You are now fast becoming a mouth piece of the Qur’aan hating kuffar mentioned in the Qur’aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
So why does such evils infect Only SOME Muslims [potential 300 millions]? The obvious hypothesis is, it must have something to do with the ideology and this can be easily proven with evil laden texts from the Quran.
This hypothesis is nothing but ignorance about the Qur’aan. It ignores the vast majority of Muslims who read the same Qur’aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It was not done with purpose. I so happened to pull those verses from my source and 71:25 was not there in the first place.
Then you are collecting the only data that you think will help promote hatred against the Qur’aan, and you call it your “obvious hypothesis”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
60:1-3 set an offensive mode and influence on evil prone readers of the Quran.
Should the believers love their enemies who were planning to sink them without trace after expelling them from their homes?

I can see why you wanted believers to love such infidel enemies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
1. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Choose not My enemy [infidels] and your enemy [infidels] for friends*.
Do ye [Muslims] give them [infidels] friendship [] [tul'qūna ilayhim offering them] [love, bonding, bil-mawadati بِالْمَوَدَّةِ و د د ] when they [infidels] disbelieve in that [revelation Quran] truth which hath come unto you [Muslims], driving out the messenger and you [Muslims] because ye [Muslims] believe in Allah, your Lord?
If ye [Muslims] have come forth to strive [jihad] in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them [infidels] not friendship).
Do ye [Muslims] show friendship unto them [infidels] in secret, when I am best Aware of what ye [Muslims] hide and what ye proclaim?
And whosoever [Muslim] doeth it among you, be verily hath strayed from the right way.
You are very blind to the above.
Any one who read the above will note it is full of contempt to infidels with words like “enemies” do not friend infidels because they are evil.
You must be out of your mind if you think that those kuffar who had expelled Muslims from their homes, simply because they had believed Allah, were not their enemies. What happened to your famous rationality here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Do not befriend infidels but strive in Allah Way which include evils and violence is tons of verses in the Quran.
You are lying here. You have failed to show me “evil and violence” is meant by the word “jihad” in the whole Qur’aan.

You are now promoting hate against the Qur’aan and most Muslims who read the Qur’aan. This kind of hatred was promoted by those kuffar against Muslims 1400 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Infidels are even threaten if they secretly befriend non-Muslims. Allah will know if they do so even secretly and they will be sent to Hell.
LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You will have to read 60:1 together with 60:8-9 and the net effect is still condemnation and antagonism towards infidels.
What! You are equating peaceful infidels with those who had expelled the believers from their homes? You must have sold your rationality for hate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
How can Muslims show kindness [60:8] to infidels if they are not supposed to befriend them [60:1] in the first place. This show that 60:8-9 is useless, ineffective and moot.
You have absolutely no chance of understanding the Qur’aan with this kind of statements after reading the Qur’aan 60+ times.

[60.1] O you who believe! Do not take My enemy and your enemy for friends: would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth, driving out the messenger and yourselves because you believe in Allah, your Lord? If you go forth struggling hard (jihadan) in My path and seeking My pleasure, would you manifest love to them? And I know what you conceal and what you manifest; and whoever of you does this, he indeed has gone astray from the straight path.

[60.8] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

[60.9] Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

Proof enough that you will never understand the Qur’aan!

According to the Qur’aan (quoted above), infidels who have not waged war against Muslims because of their religion and have not expelled them out of their homes, and have not back up others in their expulsion, can be made friends, shown kindness and dealt with justly.

Continuum, because of these lies against the Qur’aan, you are exposing yourself here as the Qur’aan hater and promoter of hate against the Qur’aan . Your argument here is a failed argument.
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:58 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Many jihadists who commit evils and violence will justify their deeds by saying, my Quran and Allah say so.
The term "jihadists" is not in the Qur'aan. It is invention of those who do not understand "jihad" so they do not know whether what the "jihadists" are saying is correct or not. They believe "jihadists" but not Muslims who are peaceful. Why? Because they will have no tool to promote hate against the Qur'aan and Allah if they believe peaceful Muslims.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:03 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My friend you appear to be in a very strong Jihad to destroy Islam by any means available to you.
They tried to destroy Islam for centuries. Truth will prevail; till the Hour.
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Old 12-30-2016, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,113 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
And you can’t hear the tone ringing in the minds of the vast majority of Muslims but you can readily hear the tone in a minority of Muslim ears. Are you one of them? Has anyone made you hear the same tone? Why are you just making it up about them but ignoring all others?
You are not in touch with reality here.

It is fact
1. there are a majority of Muslims who do not commit evil and violence.
2. there are a minority [significant] of Muslims who do commit evil and violence as inspired by evil laden verse from the Quran.

So I understand the tone ringing in the tone of both the majority and minority's ears and what they hear and how they reacted. The evidences from reality is so clear with what the minority Muslims has done what the majority are not doing.

Let's get rational and apply our intelligence.

If there is a problem any where [especially a serious one like evils from SOME Muslims did,
the rational, intelligent and wise thing to do is to trace the root cause of the problem. Now to be more efficient the root causes are not sufficient, we must trace the problem to its ultimate proximate root cause.

Unfortunately you are not interested in investigating to the ultimate proximate root cause[s] due to emotional and psychological factors at stake, i.e. the existential dilemma.

Quote:
Are you one of them?
This is getting personal.
If you ever understand, a psychiatrists who review his patients as a good or an evil person objectively need not be automatically evil.
That is what I am doing, i.e. reviews the problems of evils by SOME evil prone Muslims and giving my objective views on such issue. It does not mean I support them. I did complain of the fears generated by this aspects of Islam and you offer to protect me if I live in UK. Thanks, but why should I need your protection. Such fears should not have happened in the first. The solution is to study the ultimate proximate root causes and find efficient solution to solve them at the root source.
If you are thinking hard, deep and wide you will not be asking me such a personal [offensive] question.

Quote:
I don’t believe you WERE “well aware” of difference in “jihad” until you checked now after the information I gave you. You had to check with wiki to see. In your mind,it was just “evilish” jihad.
Nah, I read extensively and 'voraciously' on the issues of Islam. These are VERY common concepts offered by Muslims and their apologists. I am aware of the issues and the concept, but if I were to write them I have to refer to the specific terms from Wiki or elsewhere.

Quote:
And what about, “do not obey the kuffar” before “struggle against” them? Why are you ignoring that?

Does “do not obey the kuffar” mean “kill them”, “attack them”, “commit genocide of them”?

Further, what is meant by “jahid (against) them with it, great jihad?

There isn’t even a hint of warfare against the kuffar (the kuffar and not kuffar) in this verse with the word “jihad” in it.

I can see why you can’t understand these verses other than “evil elements” because you have been brainwashed by the politicians and the western media to believe that “jihad” mean “evilish” killings. The blind ones have been led by the half blind ones about “jihad”.
It is obvious "“do not obey the kuffar” is negative, antagonistic and pejorative against the infidels thus support the point that believers must strive against them. I am ignoring them, I did not highlight them but any one can read them and their relevance to the term 'against'.

I have said there is no mentioned of fight or killed in 25:52. What is convey is an antagonistic stance and posturing against the infidels with feeling of contempt and hate. The concept of warfare comes from other verses.

Quote:
”Al-Jihad al-akbar” is the jihad that is akbar (kabiran). There is no mention of “great strength” in it. Your thinking of “great strength” is a preconceived idea that you had even before reading this verse properly. Thus you are fitting your preconceive ideas into these verses. As a result, your project is doomed to utter failure.
"strive against" is generally represented by the use of extra effort. Note,
1. to exert oneself vigorously; try hard:
2. to make strenuous efforts toward any goal:
to strive for success.
3. to contend in opposition, battle, or any conflict; compete.
4. to struggle vigorously, as in opposition or resistance:
Strive | Define Strive at Dictionary.com
You are ignorant of the exact meaning of 'strive' and 'strive against' [see above] but have the cheek to condemn my vocabulary competence. Now do you agree "strive against' imply 'great strength' [strenuous efforts] or do you still insist I am wrong [presumaby stupid]? I suggest you must eat back your own words on this issue.

Quote:
I can see that wiki is now trying to qualify the jihadists when the jihadists isn’t even mentioned in the Qur’an. It isn’t mentioned in the Qur’aan because “jihad” mentioned in the 4 verses of the Qur’an IS not warfare against peaceful infidels but a personal struggle to stay on the path of Allah.

The Qur’an proves it wrong because none of the four verses in the Qur’aan with the word “jihad” in them are about warfare against peaceful kuffar/infidels.
There is nothing wrong with that wiki note.

I did agree the verses with 'jihad' re J H D' do not specific warfare specifically.

Quote:
Unless you ignore the Qur’aan 25:52 with “jihad kabiran”!
“jihadan kabiran” IS al-jihad al-akbar. You did not know that, did you?
As I had shown you the dictionary meaning of 'strive' you have to eat your own words on this and change your views on 25:52.

Quote:
It is a great sin to change the real meanings of 25:52 and “jihadan kabiran” to warfare on peaceful infidels.
I have not stated the 'strive against' in 25:52 is specifically and directly related to 'warfare.' 25:52 instigate the aggressive intense posturing and other verses [3,400] combine and culminate in inspiring SOME [not all] evil prone Muslims to fight and kill non-Muslims and other Muslims.

Quote:
Then stop saying that the Qur’aan is immutable!
You missed the point.
I stated the texts of the revelation recited by Muhammad are immutable, i.e. cannot be changed.
But the specific treaty with the Qureshi are not immutable [has no more validity] in one sense at they are all dead.

Quote:
It is good to understand them rather them learn words of the Qur’aan and their usage from the western politicians and media.

You have been brainwashed by others about the word “jihad” and what it means. There isn’t even one verse in the Qur’an with the word “jihad” that means the jihad politicians and western media have been broadcasting to the masses for years.
I would say you are very ignorant on this issue re jihad politicians and western media.
The term 'jihad' is in the English dictionary
Jihad | Define Jihad at Dictionary.com
and the origin was from mid 1800s.

If you read the wiki article on this, this term was promoted by SOME Muslims long ago, then in the 1800s to the dictionaries. The term jihad is not a brainwashed term by jihad politicians and Western medias. Get it! Stick to the truth and not lies. Note the very false, stupid irrational term "Islamophobia" promoted by SOME Muslims and accepted by the majority.

The term "jihad" currently is used within English to represent "holy war against the kuffar" and the majority understand it as "holy war against the kuffar" without fail. It is like the word 'gay' at present where at the mention of the word 'gay' the majority will straight away interpret it as 'homosexuality.' "Gay" is equal 'joy' when it relevant context is introduced, otherwise the default is 'gay' = 'homosexuality'.
It is the same with 'jihad' in the English language, where at present 'jihad' by default = "holy war against the kuffar." There is nothing wrong as far as language and vocabulary is concern because that is what the English dictionaries said so. How this came about is from SOME zealous Muslims long time ago and not due to jihad politicians and the media. So stop bullsh:ting on this.

I believe the term 'jihad' in the Arabic dictionary also has a meaning relating to 'holy war' [??]

Now as far as the Quran and Islam proper is concern, 'jihad' and the related words with J H D, do not mean specifically meant "warfare" or fight at all.
'Jihad' literally mean variously depending on context;
strive, struggle, put extra effort,
To strive or labour or toil, exert oneself or his power or efforts,
employ oneself vigorously or diligently or studiously,
take extra pains,
put oneself to trouble or fatigue,
very eagerly desire or long for something,
be in a state of extreme difficulty or trouble,
strive after, struggle against difficulties.
I have never translated 'jihad' in the Quranic language perspective directly into fighting or warfare.
(note I am learning 'The Language of the Quran')
There are other verses that combine to represent fighting and warfare.

Quote:
In this issue, I am telling you about my jihadan kabiran (25:52). I am speaking from my experience and you are speaking in ignorance about jihadan kabiran.
You need to get this idea out of your mind that everyone who does jihad is trying to kill peaceful infidels.
You always think your are right, but in many occasions I have demonstrated and proved you are wrong. Humbly, you have never on any occasion been able to prove I am wrong with certainty. As I explained your "jihadan kabiran" in (25:52) is only in your imagination and it is wrong in context of the verse.
As stated above, note the point bolded.

Quote:
You speak for yourself, and not for Muslim. None of them are for “evilish” jihad as warfare against the peaceful infidels. All 4 verses with noun ‘jihad’ are striving/struggling in relation to the deen and in defensive manner.
There you go again, putting words into my mouth. I have never translated "jihad" directly as warfare against infidels.

Quote:
(a) The word “jihad” is not in them except in 60:1. Did you notice it?

(b) We are talking here about “jihad” having spoken by the politicians and the western media for years and being expressed accordingly by you here. There is no comparison between your perception of “jihad” and the real jihad.
That is where you are in a confusion state.
You are unable to differentiate between contexts and tend to conflate them.
Yes, the term 'jihad' [per English dictionaries based on acts of some Muslims] is not in 60:1. I know about that. 60:1 promote an enmity stance but did not specify Muslims must specifically attack infidels.

Quote:
What else have you been suggesting about “jihad” then? Twisting them to give them your own meanings?
From the above, I have provided my rational, objective, intellectual right meaning from the perspective of the English dictionaries and the perspective of the Quran and Islam proper.

Quote:
Which of them have “jihad” mentioned in them?
Perhaps this one that you partly quoted with the word “fight” in it:

[4.75] And what reason have you that you should not fight in the way of Allah and of the weak among the men and the women and the children, (of) those who say: Our Lord! Cause us to go forth from this town, whose people are oppressors, and give us from Thee a guardian and give us from Thee a helper.
As I had stated these are SOME the verses related to 'fight' in contrast to verses with 'jihad' where 'fight' is not mentioned.

Quote:
So now you remember the context is important. Yes? Are these verses not part of the context of the Qur’aan? Why don’t you want to mention them?
Are you saying I don't understand the concept of 'context.' Any you are out of context with my point.

Quote:
Nothing about fight or jihad in this verse.
I did not say, it has anything to do with fight. However the whole set of verses 25:1-51 set the background to support the 'strive against' in 25:52. This mean be alert, wary and beware of the the infidels in relation of the contents within 25:1-51.
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:46 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are not in touch with reality here.

It is fact
1. there are a majority of Muslims who do not commit evil and violence.
2. there are a minority [significant] of Muslims who do commit evil and violence as inspired by evil laden verse from the Quran.
You are not in touch with reality here.

It is fact
1. there are a majority of Muslims who do not commit evil and violence as inspired by justice laden verses of the Qur'aan.
2. there are a minority of Muslims who do commit evil and violence as inspired by the attacks on their countries and their homes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
So I understand the tone ringing in the tone of both the majority and minority's ears and what they hear and how they reacted. The evidences from reality is so clear with what the minority Muslims has done what the majority are not doing.
If you were fair you would praise the Qur'aan because of what the majority has not done. But you have double standard when it comes to the Qur'aan and Muslims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Let's get rational and apply our intelligence.

If there is a problem any where [especially a serious one like evils from SOME Muslims did,
the rational, intelligent and wise thing to do is to trace the root cause of the problem. Now to be more efficient the root causes are not sufficient, we must trace the problem to its ultimate proximate root cause.
The Qur'aan is not the root cause or else MOST Muslims would be violent. All you have left now to use is your intelligence as you have already abandoned your rationality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Unfortunately you are not interested in investigating to the ultimate proximate root cause[s] due to emotional and psychological factors at stake, i.e. the existential dilemma.
And you are not interested in investigating the real root causes due to that certain conclusion you have to draw at the end of your project which is drawn by you already even before you started the project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
That is what I am doing, i.e. reviews the problems of evils by SOME evil prone Muslims and giving my objective views on such issue. It does not mean I support them. I did complain of the fears generated by this aspects of Islam and you offer to protect me if I live in UK. Thanks, but why should I need your protection. Such fears should not have happened in the first. The solution is to study the ultimate proximate root causes and find efficient solution to solve them at the root source.
I offered you protection to show you that the Qur'aan is not the root cause of your fear. If you were rational, you would have known that the Qur'aan wants us to be just with you, be friend with you, as long as you haven't waged war on us because of our deen. You are ignoring that fact about the Qur'aan on purpose.
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