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Old 03-27-2017, 03:32 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
All humans will have the same basic DNA for the next 5 million years.
As long as the main DNA structure remain unchanged over the next 5 million years, perhaps longer, it will always be the case of "believers versus non-believers" and in the case of Islam, the "Muslims versus the Kuffar."
Or Non-believers verses believers, and kuffar verses Momineen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Thus it is not a case of what happened in Medina 1450 years ago, but the threat of the kuffar is always there until Shaytan is roped in on Judgment Day.
It wasn't just the threat to Muslims in Mecca 1438 years ago but Muslims were actually killed for believing in One God instead of 360 idols.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
According to the Quran, Shaytan is free to roam to seduce the kuffar to his evil ways and Shaytan will attempt to sway the Muslims [except the stronger Muttagin who are able to resist].
Shaytan is not interested in kuffar. He has already seduced them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Muslims did not have it easy nor will they in the next 10,000 years.
Therefore the Muslims will have to struggle [strive] [JHD, jahada, jihad, jahid, etc.] against enemies of Islam lurking at every corner and against one's nafs.
It is obvious that you still haven't come out of darkness into the light about "jihad". It is not a verb but noun. Jahad (as in 9:19) and jahid (as in 22:78) are verbs (struggling/striving) and "Jihad" (struggle) is noun. Check the difference between verb "jahid (as verb) and "jihad" (as noun) in 25:52.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Both struggle or strive involve putting in extra effort.
Check out google dictionary;

So "struggle" and "strive" both involved "putting in extra effort" in different circumstances.
Google dictionary is not the Qur'aan in Arabic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The spiritual effort that is general and where 'putting in extra effort' is not mentioned is "S3W; sa`a" as in;
17:19. And whoso [Muslims] desireth the Hereafter and striveth [S3W: wasaʿā] for it with the effort [saʿyahā] necessary, being a believer [Muslim]; for such, their effort findeth favour [ShKR; mashkur] (with their Lord).
Yes, this is making effort (verb) and effort (noun) without any pressure from any other human being. Effort/striving in "Jahad" and "jahid" (verb) is under pressure from kuffar to prevent it. Just as "wasa'a" in this verse is verb (action) but "sa'yaha" is noun, struggling under pressure from kuffar is "jahad" (verb) and struggle (noun) is "jihad".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
see other verses with S3W; sa`a, 21:94; 53:40, 88:9. 76:22. 79:35
The effort. seeking, search mentioned as sa'yaha in 17:19 and other verses is related to usual effort of every human being. You will achieve what you strive/seek/search/exert for.

[53.39] And that human being shall have nothing but what he strives for.

"jahada" and "jahid" is not normal everyday striving but such striving and struggling is enforced by the action of kuffar against Muslims otherwise it would be striving and seeking the same as every human being's striving to achieve something/anything. For example, your striving here is not "jahad" but "sa'a" or "sa'i" as you are seeking, in search of, striving to achieve something like someone else will do to gain some knowledge. I am sure your would achieve what you are striving for even if it is not "jahad".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The Way of Allah [enjoin ma'ruf avoid munkar] is represented by all the elements within the 6,236 verses in the Quran.
If the appx 20% of evil prone Muslims are inclined to the 'horse' [ evil laden elements] they cognize as 'ma'ruf' within the 6,236 verses of the 'Way of Allah' there is nothing you can do about it!
There is nothing I can do if you see 'horse' in the Qur'aan. You have already told me that it is done by twisting and distortion. There are Muslims who might do the same twisting and distortion to see 'that horse'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
17:84. Say [Muhammad]: Each one doth [does] according to his [own] Rule of Conduct [ShKL: shākilatihi], and thy Lord is best aware of him whose way is right [ahdā: best guided].
Therefore you cannot judge the evil prone who interpret the FACT of the 'horse' within the Quran, only Allah can be the final arbiter.
The point to note is that the guidance is clear in the Qur'aan. If someone twists and distorts written word "frog" into "horse" then Allah knows that it is done by twisting it and distorting it. Thus Allah knows how one acts in each case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If only you can read Chapter 9 in its real ethos/spirit more objectively and with an understanding of what other Muslims would have understood it [horse or frog] [note 17:84] which is true and only Allah can be the final judge.
Chapter 9 isn't just one thing or the same thing. The same goes for the whole Qur'aan. Just as reading just one chapter does not mean you have understood the whole qur'aan, reading just one verse of a chapter does not mean that you have read the whole chapter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I suggest you reread Chapter 9 again, this time with a more open mind.
I have read it many times (with open mind). What you do not understand is that there never was any killing after this chapter was revealed. Do you understand why this chapter did not materialize as commanded? Why it was always a "frog" and never a "horse" in the minds of those Muslims at the time?

You can only know the answers to these questions if you study the Qur'aan with an open mind without a need to come to a certain conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
In 9:19 the built up of antagonism, anger, hate, contempt and enmity are so great, even the good intentions of the kuffar [supposed Muhammad's uncle] are not appreciated at all.
This is a part of the strategy to 'divide and rule' invoking the primal Us versus Them instinct. Thus such a strategy built up negative tensions between the Muslims and the Kuffar. This negative is expressed in all the other verses in Chapter 9.
As I had expected, your conclusion about the whole of the chapter 9 is based on one verse (9:19). You see the whole chapter in that preconceived idea. That is not the way to study the Qur'aan.

You are so stuck in your own preconceived views that the verse such as 9:19 has just flew over your head. Did you even understand the verse in full? If you diid, would you care to explain here as to whether you see it as 'frog' or 'horse'?

Please keep in mind that only in the previous year, Muslims were prevented by the kuffar to visit the Masjid in Mecca. They had traveled more than 300 miles to visit the Masjid. That was 600 miles of traveling for nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Thus all the J-H-D related terms [putting in extra effort, striving, struggle, etc.] are tightly compacted with the related negative tension built up within Chapter 9.
And they all were proved to be positive tension in the end as peace was established with chapter 9 of the Qur'aan without any war or killings in Mecca.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
9:20 indicated the Muslims were forced out of Mecca, surely there is hate and negative tension. Then those who jahad [J-H-D] sacrificed their wealth and lives are highly recognized and praised.
And you see it the other way round as if it was good to kill some and expel the other Muslims from Mecca. The truth did prevail in Mecca in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is not only Chapter 9 [most notable] but the whole Quran and its tons of evil laden elements that inspired the 'horse' seers to commit terrible evils onto the non-Muslims and YOU [others or me] cannot judge them at all, only Allah can decide whether they are right or wrong [17:84]. see also 42:10, 6:149, and the likes.
That doesn't mean that only you can judge the Qur'aan. Your conclusion of your project on the Qur'aan is already condemned by yourself in these remarks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Therefore until Judgment Day [which is not likely to happen -14:48] the evil prone Muslims will continue to wreck havoc as inspired by the evil laden verses in the Quran in reality on Earth.
The same applies to your judgment and you. All of you have an appointed term on earth. When the cup is full, and no more room in it for more, it will be time to go. The Qur'aan will be here long after YOU (others and I) have gone. It will be here because it is a Guarded/Protected book.
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So 20% Muslims commit a wide range of evil that are is not necessarily terror related. And if these 20% had never read Quran, 100% Muslims would have been free of doing evil things. (Right now it's 80% such Muslims as per your research)
I must admit that my friend, Continuum, has 2 point:

(1) If 20% Muslims commit evil acts, these are inspired by the Qur'aan but if 80% do not commit evil acts, they are not inspired by the Qur'aan.

(2) 20% of all human being are evil prone. They will commit evil anyway whether they read the Qur'aan or not.

This bring me to wonder why this 20% of Muslims (human beings) are still only 20% committing evil. Why hasn't this figure gone up after they have read the Qur'aan.

Warning: Don't read the Qur'aan unless you want to be inspired by it.
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Point is the "frog" and "horse" exist as real possible points in the Quran.
You and the majority cannot read the 'horse' matters as your brain do not allow you to cognize it.
No. It is so because my brain did not twist or distort what is in the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There is no real distortion at all.
The horse is merely drawn vertically so as to highlight the principle.
That's what the evil doers prove, that good in the Qur'aan can be turned into evil by twisting and distorting it.
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
With the Quran's 6,236 verses in texts, there are likely to be hundreds of points where different people will cognize different meanings from the same set of texts.

Both us has also encountered many verses where we disagreed on the meanings despite heavy scrutiny down [without translations] to the same Arabic texts and grammar.
Disagreeing on the meaning of a set of texts is often due to the lack of deeper study of those text at least on the part of one side. In the text of the Qur'aan, you would always find explanation and the true meaning of another set of texts in the Qur'aan.

Take for example, "Muslim verses kuffar" or "us verses them". This is the impression you have even after reading the Qur'aan more than 60 times. What I have realized after talking to you is that this is result of you missing out on a certain text in the Qur'aan. This is the beauty of the Qur'aan; you have to read it again and again to understand it better. This is why you have traveled a long way since you had read the Qur'aan only a couple of times. No matter how many times you read the Qur'aan, you would always find something new and interesting the next time.

The point to note is that each verse of the Qur'aan still applies. Ignore or overlook any verse of the Qur'aan and your knowledge of the Qur'aan is not sufficient.
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:15 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
My assertion is the 4 verses with 'jihad' in the Quran do not relate DIRECTLY and SPECIFICALLY to 'holy war.'
Therefore objectively and in principle 'jihad' in the Quran is not equal to 'holy war'.
Jihad and other J-H-D terms in the Quran refer to 'putting in extra effort'.
So 'putting in extra effort' cannot literary be equal to 'war' or 'holy war' as far as the Quran is concerned.

However there is an indirect link to warring elements in context as I had discussed in another post.
With the last comment, you are making mahasn sawresho look the greatest tutor of indirect link between "jihad" and "doing jihad" in the Qur'aan.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:27 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 663,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
With the last comment, you are making mahasn sawresho look the greatest tutor of indirect link between "jihad" and "doing jihad" in the Qur'aan.
My friend
There is a direct correlation between AL-mjahd -and jehad
because AL-mjahd he doing the jehad

If it is ( fe-sbel-allah ) that is meaning jehad to To spread Islam

-----------------------

There is a difference between
1-( jahdo -mn-ajel-anfeskm) jahdo for yourselves
and
2- ( jahdo -fe -sbel-allah )For God's sake
------------------------

The number one style is not common in the Koran

jahdo -mn-ajel-anfeskm) jahdo for yourselves
This is what Khalifa wants to prove

-----------------

But common in the Koran is style 2

( jahdo -fe -sbel-allah )For God's sake

This is the meaning of Jihad in the Qur'an
----------------------

Repeat the link
jehad-mjahad- yojahd-jahad
-------
run-running -you must run -he run -

Original ran

I hope the idea arrives
Because there is a difference between the rules of Arabic and English
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:34 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 663,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I must admit that my friend, Continuum, has 2 point:

(1) If 20% Muslims commit evil acts, these are inspired by the Qur'aan but if 80% do not commit evil acts, they are not inspired by the Qur'aan.

(2) 20% of all human being are evil prone. They will commit evil anyway whether they read the Qur'aan or not.

This bring me to wonder why this 20% of Muslims (human beings) are still only 20% committing evil. Why hasn't this figure gone up after they have read the Qur'aan.

Warning: Don't read the Qur'aan unless you want to be inspired by it.
If you have studied the theories of criminology you will know the guessing ratio
Because criminology teaches phenomena only
There are many theories
I studied this science when I studied law
But terrorism is not an individual crime
It is a collective crime
It results from ideas and ideologies
Which is more dangerous than the phenomena of individual criminality
Individual crime can be deterred and remedied
But terrorism can not be deterred by individual or precautionary action
And limited publication in the Forum
Just explain this
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:41 PM
 
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To be sure, terrorism is associated with any ideology that is expansive, humanistic and for the sake of interests
So there is a very fine line in this standard
Because all the ills of human terrorism were very clear
For example, Nazi ideology has been and still wants to impose force terrorism for Great Germany
America's terrorism is to impose American control over the world
The terror of British colonization for Britain was not lost

In earlier times it was the Roman Empire
Farsi and Assyria carry the tendencies of human terrorism
But they were not mixed with the connection with God
This is a fine thread
Which we must pay attention to in separating the types of terrorism in the world
And the most dangerous of them who terrorize people for the sake of God
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Old 03-28-2017, 12:10 AM
 
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Importance for the sake of God so we know the offensive jihad

We must read Verse 84 from surat -al -nesai

So fight[], in the cause of Allah ; (fe-sbel -allah )


and read Verse 95 from surat al-nesai

and the mujahideen, [fe-sbel -allah)


Note the pronunciation in the

For God's sake)( fe -sbel -allah )

Between the fighter and the Mujahid
Thus we see the great link between jihad and fighting


You can check out


Verse 84 from surat -al -nesai and Verse 95 from surat al-nesa


Share is ( fe-sbel -allah )


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Old 03-28-2017, 02:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Importance for the sake of God so we know the offensive jihad
It is important for you that you understand the difference between "jihad" and "jahid" or "jahad".

The first one is noun (you don't do it) the other two are verbs (you do them).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
We must read Verse 84 from surat -al -nesai

So fight[], in the cause of Allah ; (fe-sbel -allah )
"Fight" is not "jihad". Nowhere in the Qur'aan, fight is written as "jihad".

You are making it up in your head that "fight" is "jihad".

"Fight" in the Qur'aan is always in defense. To fight in defense is not to spread Islam but to save yourself from being killed by kuffar and thus saving Islam. The kuffar were trying to destroy Muslims and Islam with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
and read Verse 95 from surat al-nesai

and the mujahideen, [fe-sbel -allah)


Note the pronunciation in the

For God's sake)( fe -sbel -allah )

Between the fighter and the Mujahid
Thus we see the great link between jihad and fighting
Can you see the difference in the word "jahid" and "jihad"?

As soon as you see the word "jahid", your brain and eyes tell you that it is not "jahid" but "jihad".

No wonder you can't understand simple English!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
You can check out


Verse 84 from surat -al -nesai and Verse 95 from surat al-nesa


Share is ( fe-sbel -allah )


[4.84] So fight (qatil) then in Allah's way (fi sabilillah); this is not imposed on you except In relation to your nafs (nafsaka), and rouse the believers to ardor maybe Allah will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve and Allah is strongest in prowess and strongest to give an exemplary punishment.

There is no mention of "jihad" in this verse. To understand why the fighting in defense is imposed on believers in this verse, you need to understand that the unbelievers started it first. Therefore, fighting back from the believers is to restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve. This way Muslims (their nafs) will survive and Islam will survive (fi sabilillah). Therefore, this fighting is not only for one's self survival but fi sabillilah as well. And where is "jihad" mentioned in it?

Now let's look at your next great evidence 4:95 in support of your lack of Islamic knowledge?

[4.95] The holders back from among the believers, not having any injury, and those who strive (do jahid) in Allah's way (fi sabillillah) with their wealth and their nafs are not equal; Allah has made the strivers (mujahideen) with their wealth and their nafs to excel the holders back a (high) degree, and to each (class) Allah has promised good; and Allah shall grant to the strivers (the mujahideen) above the holders back a mighty reward.

There is mention of "jahid" (not "jihad") in this verse but to understand this "jahid", you need to understand the verse before it:

[4.94] O you who believe! When you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace: You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life! But with Allah there are abundant gains; you too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; therefore make investigation; surely Allah is aware of what you do.

They have to "jahid" (not "jihad") only in defense. If the unbelievers offer peace then it must be accepted and there should be no fighting or "jahid".

Understand?
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