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Old 04-08-2017, 09:41 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The point is this;

Khalif is a Quran-Only Muslim.
In the Quran, the root J-H-D and its associated words are not DIRECTLY related to holy war.
Therefore there is no way for Khalif (Quran-only Muslim) to accept jihad, jahad or mujahid has anything DIRECTLY to do with holy war.
However as I argued the J-H-D words do have an indirect link to holy war.

For Quran-only Muslims one would need to use other arguments to assert Islam [in part] do condone holy war and the J-H-D is merely to put in extra efforts to such holy war and other deeds. On this basis I would argue there are tons of evil laden elements in the Quran that catalyze [inspire] holy war by SOME evil prone Muslims.

However if you are arguing with Sunni or Shia Muslims [like GoCardinals, PDXHouston, Woodrow LI, and other Sunnis posters], then you can use the J-H-D words to argue that their Islam associate Jihad = holy war, because this is expounded in the Ahadith.

Jihad = holy war is from the Ahadith.
Khalif [Quran-only] do not believe in the Ahadith.
So it is no point to insist 'jihad=holy war' with Khalif.

If you want to debate with Khalif [Quran-only] that the Quran [in part] do condone evils and violence you need to rely on the tons of evil laden verses from the Quran. That is what I have been doing. Khalif will disagrees with my views, so it is a matter of who can present one arguments more convincingly.
Thank you
Yes, I know well that Khalifa rejects the military jihad
He says jihad in the Koran has no offensive meaning
And refuses to recognize in the interpretations of Muslim jurists
These interpretations are from the beginning of the spread of Islam
For this reason
I sent him the last question which is clear
What is the meaning of jihad for the sake of Allah?What is the meaning of jihad ( fe-sbel-allah) ??

How to (tojahd- fe-sbel-allah) for the sake God??
Why you tojahd for the sake God?
What is the cause of Jihad?
What is the purpose of jihad for the sake of Allah?
Answer these questions
Defines the concept of jihad
In his kind
Offensive and defensive
And also moral
Muslim interpreters
They say jihad is two kinds
Defense
This is what a Khalifa believes in
The second is offensive and this is rejected by Khalifa
I do not know why he refused to recognize the offensive jihad
Does he want to abolish the concept of jihad in the name of God?
I do not know if I will get the answer
Or he will say I do not understand English
I think the English is clear
In these questions
Greetings and respect
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Old 04-09-2017, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Thank you
Yes, I know well that Khalifa rejects the military jihad
He says jihad in the Koran has no offensive meaning
It is true, from the perspective of the Quran-Only, there is no DIRECT relation between jihad and offensiveness.

Jihad [JHD] in the Quran refer to "Putting in extra effort"

Thus one can [JHD] put in extra effort in any action, one can;

1. Put in extra effort [JHD] when defensive if attacked
2. Put in extra effort [JHD] when offensive, fight, kill, oppress, etc.
3. Put in extra effort [JHD] to pay zakat
4. Put in extra effort [JHD] in 3budu Allah
5. Put in extra effort [JHD] in salaat [SLW] to Allah
6. Put in extra effort [JHD] in Dikhra [remembrance] to Allah
7. Put in extra effort [JHD] in sabil [SBL]
8. Put in extra effort [JHD] do not take infidels as awliyaa.

Therefore if [JHD] is equal to 'Put in extra effort' or work harder, e.g. striving or struggle, then JHD [jihad] cannot be equal to 'holy war'.

Rather your claim should be;
The Quran [in part] condone military actions against infidels as proven by the following verses.
The verses are [??? to produce the relevant verses is the tougher part].
The Quran [in part] condone military actions actions against infidels and exhort believers to 'put in extra effort' [jahid, mujahid] when doing so.
So in the Quran, holy war is not equal to 'jihad'. There is only an indirect link.

But for the Ahadith Muslims, jihad is equal to holy war and this is reflected in the Arabic Dictionary.

Quote:
And refuses to recognize in the interpretations of Muslim jurists
These interpretations are from the beginning of the spread of Islam
For this reason
I sent him the last question which is clear
What is the meaning of jihad for the sake of Allah?What is the meaning of jihad ( fe-sbel-allah) ??
Khalif do not recognize the Muslim jurists [those] as he does not agree with them in this aspect re Jihad = holy war.
In the Quran, Sabil [SBR] i.e. cause of Allah or way of Allah can mean so many things.
Again there is no direct connection 'Sabil of Allah' = offensive military action in the Quran-Only.
There is however an indirect connection because the evil laden elements in the Quran that inspire SOME evil prone Muslims to take actions against the l-ẓālimīna [ZLM] [infidels].

Point is jihad = holy war is relevant to the Ahadith Muslims, i.e. the Sunnis and Shia but not the Quran-only Muslims.
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Old 04-09-2017, 01:59 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Point is jihad = holy war is relevant to the Ahadith Muslims, i.e. the Sunnis and Shia but not the Quran-only Muslims.
The point to note is that the word "jihad" (JHD is not a word) in the Qur'aan is NEVER used for war, fighting or killing. That's my point in simple English. The problem with mahasn swaresho is that he can't understand simple English.
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Old 04-09-2017, 10:55 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The point to note is that the word "jihad" (JHD is not a word) in the Qur'aan is NEVER used for war, fighting or killing. That's my point in simple English. The problem with mahasn swaresho is that he can't understand simple English.
I understand you well
You want to provide an explanation that goes against Islamic schools
Even moderate ones
I think you want to abolish the obligation of jihad
This is what every Muslim who understands his religion rejects
If you want to look at the word only
You should apply this method to all verses and sentences in the Koran
For example
You should look for the word marriage contract in the Koran
Is marriage contract written in the Koran
But the commentators say that the marriage contract means marriage
----------------
That's why I tell you
Some verses in the Qur'an can not be translated into the meaning of their words
But Ijtihad is used to interpret these verses
For example
The verse 223 from Surat al-Baqarah
There are many examples that the interpretation of the Koran does not depend on your style of interpretation
The verses of jihad also can not be interpreted in their own words only, but they are interpreted according to the objectives of the Koran
It is that religion is Islam
And Jihad for this purpose
Is meaning in the way of Allah ( fe-sbel -allah )
----------------

I think it's useful to answer questions
In my previous posts
It is about meaning in the way of God( fe -sbel -allah )
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Old 04-10-2017, 01:47 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
I understand you well
No.
You do not understand me because you do not understand English. And I am writing in English. How can you understand me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
You want to provide an explanation that goes against Islamic schools
Even moderate ones
Did you learn about Islam from "Islamic schools"? No wonder you do not understand "jihad" in the Qur'aan!
I have never learnt about "jihad" from "Islamic schools" but I learnt about "jihad" from the Qur'aan only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
I think you want to abolish the obligation of jihad
Who cares what YOU think!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
If you want to look at the word only
You should apply this method to all verses and sentences in the Koran
For example
You should look for the word marriage contract in the Koran
Is marriage contract written in the Koran
But the commentators say that the marriage contract means marriage
But the word "jihad" IS in the Qur'aan in 4 verses. And so is the marriage contract. It is called "marriage tie" (عُقْدَةُ النِّكَاحِ).
----------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
That's why I tell you
Some verses in the Qur'an can not be translated into the meaning of their words
Have you now realized that your dependence on the google translator has been a big mistake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
The verses of jihad also can not be interpreted in their own words only, but they are interpreted according to the objectives of the Koran
There are only 4 verses of "jihad" in the Qur'aan. The objective in any of them 4 verses is never fighting, killing or waging war on anyone.

Did you understand that?
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:15 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
No.
You do not understand me because you do not understand English. And I am writing in English. How can you understand me?

Did you learn about Islam from "Islamic schools"? No wonder you do not understand "jihad" in the Qur'aan!
I have never learnt about "jihad" from "Islamic schools" but I learnt about "jihad" from the Qur'aan only.

Who cares what YOU think!!!

But the word "jihad" IS in the Qur'aan in 4 verses. And so is the marriage contract. It is called "marriage tie" (عُقْدَةُ النِّكَاحِ).
----------------
Have you now realized that your dependence on the google translator has been a big mistake?

There are only 4 verses of "jihad" in the Qur'aan. The objective in any of them 4 verses is never fighting, killing or waging war on anyone.

Did you understand that?
allh -akber
I hope you stop shouting that I do not understand English
You have to answer the questions that I have asked you

It is Islamic schools that determine the position of Islam from the Koran
Do you interpret the Quran in your own way?
---------------------
As for the marriage contract
Yes, your answer is correct
But what is the meaning of ( al-nokah )?
In the Arabic language
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:25 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
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http://articles.islamweb.net
Go to this link and read about jihad

Jihad in the Koran

And the word (Jihad) was mentioned in the Holy Quran in forty-one places, and it was mentioned in twenty-seven places in the form of the verb. From that, he says: "O Prophet, strive against the infidels and the hypocrites." (Repentance: 73) The Almighty says: (If you went out jihad in Sabili) (Almtmnp: 1).

And the word (jihad) was mentioned in the Holy Quran on three meanings:

For the first: in the sense of jihad by saying, from that saying: (and fought them a great jihad) (al -ferqan: 52),

The second is: Jihad by force, from that the saying: (do not equal the rule of the believers is not harm and the Mujahideen in the way of Allah with their money and themselves God preferred the Mujahideen with their money and themselves on the base of the degree and all the promise of God and the best of Allah Mujahideen on the base of a great reward) (Women: 95) , The meaning of the word (jihad) in this verse and so on the jihad infidels in the battlefields, as evidenced by the Almighty: (with their money and themselves). And such, saying Almighty: (and strive in the way of God with your money and yourselves) (Grade: 11). The more the word (jihad) in the Qur'an came according to this meaning. This type of jihad is called jihad by sword and fighting.

Ibn al-Katheer said: This is like his saying: "Whoever does good work, let us make it up to him" (chapter 46). That is, he who has done righteous deeds, The benefit of his work is on his own, God goes for the acts of worshipers. This is what Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): "And those who struggled in us to guide them to our ways" (Al-Ankaboot 69). Al-Shawkani said: They struggled in the matter of God to seek His pleasures and hope for what He has good.
-------------------------------

This is written in the link to Islam Web
--------------------

Shall we rely on our friend Khalifa?
Or believe these interpreters
And they know Islam too
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:26 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
allh -akber
I hope you stop shouting that I do not understand English
You have to answer the questions that I have asked you
So you did not understand English once more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
As for the marriage contract
Yes, your answer is correct
But what is the meaning of ( al-nokah )?
In the Arabic language
It means the act of marrying. Do you know what marriage (in English) means? If you do, it means the same in Arabic. The Nikah (not nokah or nokia) in Arabic makes having nooky legal.

Don't ask me to spell out "nooky" now because you won't understand.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:31 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
http://articles.islamweb.net
Go to this link and read about jihad

Jihad in the Koran

And the word (Jihad) was mentioned in the Holy Quran in forty-one places...
This is a lie.

The word "jihad" is mentioned in only 4 verses of the Qur'aan.
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Old 04-25-2017, 07:16 AM
 
388 posts, read 240,949 times
Reputation: 398
Default Marriage questions from a person unfamiliar

Good morning,


In my curiosity to understand the Islamic centers around me (I am new to a traditionally conservative area, and we have many mosques very nearby and a large Muslim population... I have little experience with Islam, even though I came from a very liberal area where there were no mosques within what is probably about a 30 mile radius), I have looked at their web pages online to learn more about the centers. My children have Muslim friends whose mothers I have come to know a little, but I never wanted to make anyone uncomfortable so I haven't asked them my questions... I don't know them *that* well.

In my perusing, most state right online that they require a dowry for the bride and at least two men to judge whether it would be a good union as part of the requirements for marriage. The information ephasizes that the state marital license is less important than the two men and the dowry... It reads very clearly that the state license is a simple and somewhat insignificant aspect, that what is more important are these traditions of Islamic law.

Most Americans I know would probably interpret that this is placing shari'a law above American civil law.

While the religion's laws could be seen as similar as something to, for example, the requirement for a Catholic to prepare for marriage by accepting many of the denomination's sacramental requirements... Is there any difference in your opinion?

To issue a state matrital license to a group (I am speaking only about the area around me) that requires a man pay a dowry for a woman in order to 'legally' marry her and two men to judge for her-- in order to be in line with Islamic law-- is this intersection of religious law a form of imposition for putting religious laws on equal footing with American civil law?

I have no feeling either way, I just find it interesting. That said, most people I know think an elected government outside of religion should have nothing to do with marriage.

On the other hand, I find it very nice that they all seem to offer open food banks, and many have free clinics on weekends for people with no medical or dental insurance or those that might have it but cannot get into their doctor on the weekend. I didn't realize that Islam required followers to be as community minded as these centers state the religion requires. Medical expenses alone can really add up!
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