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Old 11-18-2016, 05:44 PM
 
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I have a friend who is Muslim and she was raised in Yemen or something. Sometimes I can't really understand a word she is saying sometimes. Today i asked her is there Radical Islam..or is Isis muslims?

She told me the Muslim religion is totally against killing anybody. I know she doesn't eat pork.

PLus along time ago she said Sudan Hussein was a good guy so my coworker and I reminded her that he killed his own people she then told us don't believe everything we hear or read.

So i am just confused. I mean i love my friend but just completely confused.

What is radical islam?
what is Isis?
What is the sharia law?
Moderator cut: This is not the Politics forum.

Last edited by mensaguy; 11-18-2016 at 07:24 PM.. Reason: More political junk.
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Old 11-19-2016, 05:09 AM
 
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islamacloserlook.com/what-is-sharia/
BBC - Religions - Islam: Sharia
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Old 11-19-2016, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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We are quite individualistic. From any Muslim you are only going to get the opinion of that Muslim. Not one of us speaks for Islam or anyone except ourself.

As to who is a Muslim. We only know who claims to be Muslim. Being Muslim is not the adherence to a specific group it is the performance of the action of Islam. Islam is a verb and it means "The Act of Submitting to Allaah(swt)" We have no way of knowing if an individual is doing so as it entails doing something with Belief, Sincerity and knowledge. Even an Atheist could go through the physical acts, but will not be a Muslim.

Sharia law is not a single thing. There are various concepts. To understand what is meant by Sharia you will need to know what Madhab of Sharia they are speaking of. If they are not adhering to a Madhab you will need to know what they call Sharia.

Some things that are called Sharia

Hanbali
Hanafi
Maliki
Shafi'i
Jafa'ari
Saudi laws of the Monarchy
Iranian laws of the Ayatollah
Wahabbi
Salafi

The link "Themanofearth" gave is an excellent explanation of what Shariah should be. But sadly there are many other things some Muslims and some non-Muslims call Sharia. Those do cause misconceptions and errors.
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Old 11-19-2016, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbostons7489 View Post
I have a friend who is Muslim and she was raised in Yemen or something. Sometimes I can't really understand a word she is saying sometimes. Today i asked her is there Radical Islam..or is Isis muslims?

She told me the Muslim religion is totally against killing anybody. I know she doesn't eat pork.

PLus along time ago she said Sudan Hussein was a good guy so my coworker and I reminded her that he killed his own people she then told us don't believe everything we hear or read.

So i am just confused. I mean i love my friend but just completely confused.

What is radical islam?
what is Isis?
What is the sharia law?
Moderator cut: This is not the Politics forum.
Addressing just these:

What is radical islam?
what is Isis?

As for what is meant by "Radical Islam" you will have to ask the person who is using the term. I personally think it is those who take an unwavering legalistic view of Islam and fail to follow the spirit and intent of Islam.

Neither is an Islamic term. They are primarily labels coined by the Media.

ISIS is an illegal organization founded by a person who is under the delusion he is a Caliph and is forming a Caliphate restoring what he calls "True Islam"

ISIS is not only violating man-made laws, it is also violating Sharia laws and the teachings of Islam. My personal opinion.
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Old 11-20-2016, 05:22 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 769,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbostons7489 View Post
I have a friend who is Muslim and she was raised in Yemen or something. Sometimes I can't really understand a word she is saying sometimes. Today i asked her is there Radical Islam..or is Isis muslims?

She told me the Muslim religion is totally against killing anybody. I know she doesn't eat pork.

PLus along time ago she said Sudan Hussein was a good guy so my coworker and I reminded her that he killed his own people she then told us don't believe everything we hear or read.

So i am just confused. I mean i love my friend but just completely confused.

What is radical islam?
what is Isis?
What is the sharia law?
Moderator cut: This is not the Politics forum.
Woodrow answered well.

I'll add that ISIS & Al-Qaeda are the manifestation/reaction/rage against what they see as domestic oppression by puppet dictators, oppression by western countries and cultural/moral oppression via the adoption of western culture by some Muslims in Muslim countries. It's a very-very complex issue but in short they are very angry and *have answers in mind when coming up with fatwas*.

For instance, they may want to perform a suicide bombing mission on a civilian population. If you took an honest reading of the Quran/Hadeeth/Ijma then you would conclude that is patently forbidden. However they will cherry-pick and intentionally misquote or take out of context to get to the answer they want. Ironically Islamophobes do the same thing.

I'll also add that the correct term for these people is deviants, not extremists. Extremist would imply that they are taking an Islamic principle over the top, for instance mandating 20 prayers a day instead of the required 5. These folks just do what they want, and that makes them deviant from Islamic principles, not extremists.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:23 AM
 
1,299 posts, read 480,324 times
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My questions


If Quran says about it self that it is as trustable and legitimate as the Torah and the Gospel, ¿Why does it contradicts both?


I mean, I have read the argument that Quran is legitimate while Gospel is twisted, but the Oldest Gospels we have are completly aligned to our current gospels and are older to Prophet Mohamad.


If The Sinaiticus, Alexandinus and Vaticanus Codex are older to Mohamad by 200 years, ¿how can the argument of the gospels as hving been twisted stand?


If oldest Gospels are 200 older to Mohamad ¿Can Quran's revelation claim to be legitimate as the gospels an yet contradict them?
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso_Castillo View Post
My questions


If Quran says about it self that it is as trustable and legitimate as the Torah and the Gospel, ¿Why does it contradicts both?


I mean, I have read the argument that Quran is legitimate while Gospel is twisted, but the Oldest Gospels we have are completly aligned to our current gospels and are older to Prophet Mohamad.


If The Sinaiticus, Alexandinus and Vaticanus Codex are older to Mohamad by 200 years, ¿how can the argument of the gospels as hving been twisted stand?


If oldest Gospels are 200 older to Mohamad ¿Can Quran's revelation claim to be legitimate as the gospels an yet contradict them?
Good question.

There are only 4 books we know of that came directly from God(swt)

Torah

Book of Psalms

Injeel-Gospel of Jesus-(Not to be confused with the Gospels of Matthew, Kark, John and Luke or the NT)

Qur'an

All 4 gave the very same revelation. However only the Qur'an remains in it's original form.

Some verification of this one can look at the differences between the Jewish versions and see the differences in how th Christians understand them in the OT. The Injeel (Gospel of Jesus) was never preserved and does not exist any more.
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:38 PM
 
1,299 posts, read 480,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Good question.

There are only 4 books we know of that came directly from God(swt)

Torah

Book of Psalms

Injeel-Gospel of Jesus-(Not to be confused with the Gospels of Matthew, Kark, John and Luke or the NT)

Qur'an

All 4 gave the very same revelation. However only the Qur'an remains in it's original form.

Some verification of this one can look at the differences between the Jewish versions and see the differences in how th Christians understand them in the OT. The Injeel (Gospel of Jesus) was never preserved and does not exist any more.
The problem is that either Injeel never existed or it was a product of Mohamad's ignorance on the True gospels. It is not mentioned by any of the Oldest Fathers of the Catholic Church, which Go from Saint Ignatius of antioch who lived 500 years before mohamad, and who met in person Saint Peter and Saint Paul, or Saint Clement Pope who also met Peter and Paul in Person, or Saint Ireneus who lived in 140 AD, who met Sain Policarp who met Saint John Apostle in Person. Etc.

The Core issue that I see is that all those Apostolic bishops who succeded the Apostles themselves and whose writings subsist to our times never mentioned the "Injeel" you claim. In fact there are no muslims back to mohamad who may testify its existence. While the Four Canonical Catholic gospels do have witneses of their use well close to The Events of Jesús in Jerusalem. What testimonies can Islam provide to certify the existence of the "Injeel" which goes against the Four Canonical Gospels?


And yes there are many Non canonical Gospels, and non of them talk about a not divine Jesús, in fact in Exchange some of the Gnostic Gospels claim Jesús more Divine than Yahveh... Something which the Church simply denies and condemns. My point is that Non canonical Gospels do exist and survive to our days, ¿How is it posible that "Injeel" does not and yet it is refered as CORE for Islam understanding?

The other point I see difficult is that Quran call for Christians who believed in the Gospel to believe also in Quran. and for the time Quran calls Christians, The Four Catholic Canonical Gospels were already defined as we know them. ¿Then to what Christians is Quran calling if no Christian for the time Quran was written even knew "Injeel"?
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso_Castillo View Post
The problem is that either Injeel never existed or it was a product of Mohamad's ignorance on the True gospels. It is not mentioned by any of the Oldest Fathers of the Catholic Church, which Go from Saint Ignatius of antioch who lived 500 years before mohamad, and who met in person Saint Peter and Saint Paul, or Saint Clement Pope who also met Peter and Paul in Person, or Saint Ireneus who lived in 140 AD, who met Sain Policarp who met Saint John Apostle in Person. Etc.

The Core issue that I see is that all those Apostolic bishops who succeded the Apostles themselves and whose writings subsist to our times never mentioned the "Injeel" you claim. In fact there are no muslims back to mohamad who may testify its existence. While the Four Canonical Catholic gospels do have witneses of their use well close to The Events of Jesús in Jerusalem. What testimonies can Islam provide to certify the existence of the "Injeel" which goes against the Four Canonical Gospels?


And yes there are many Non canonical Gospels, and non of them talk about a not divine Jesús, in fact in Exchange some of the Gnostic Gospels claim Jesús more Divine than Yahveh... Something which the Church simply denies and condemns. My point is that Non canonical Gospels do exist and survive to our days, ¿How is it posible that "Injeel" does not and yet it is refered as CORE for Islam understanding?

The other point I see difficult is that Quran call for Christians who believed in the Gospel to believe also in Quran. and for the time Quran calls Christians, The Four Catholic Canonical Gospels were already defined as we know them. ¿Then to what Christians is Quran calling if no Christian for the time Quran was written even knew "Injeel"?
Actually there is evidence of the Injeel. Part of it in the Quotes attributed to Jesus(a.s.) in Matthew, Mark, John and Luke. From those we do know Jesus(a.s.) preached. His preachings are the Injeel, but it was never written down or if it was it was suppressed.

In all probability the "Sermon on the Mount" came from the Injeel.

It is also probable some parts of the Injeel can be found in some of the Books that were not included in the Bible when the Pope decided what books would make up the Bible.

A very strong candidate is the "Gospel of Thomas" Founded by St Thomas when he went to India. The First known Christian Church was built by him and his followers were the Thomasons, Which was the oldest known Christians until they were forced to accept Catholicism in about the 1500s. Their entire Bible consisted only of the Gospel of Thomas and it is still available even Translations from the Aramaic that was used in it. Although the Thomas Christians were forced to give up the Gospel of Thomas and follow the Catholic Bible

Here is the Gospel of Thomas translated into English: It very probably contains some words from the Injeel (Gospel of Jesus)

Gospel of Thomas (Lambdin Translation) -- The Nag Hammadi Library



The teaching of Jesus(a.s.) was being taught in India before Greece and Rome formulated the Bible.

The Christians of Kerala India formed before there was Christianity in Greece and Rome. Their teachings are quite a bit different. Although they were pretty much obliterated by Catholicism and Evangelists going to India Although some still remain.

You can read a little about them Here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_...stian_Churches

Some other Books probably contain some words from the Injeel

For instance The Gospel of Mary

The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene

Another bit of evidence is that for almost 2000 years there has been a Christian legend regarding a Lost Gospel

The Legend of the Lost Gospel
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 11-23-2016 at 11:51 PM..
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Old 11-24-2016, 10:06 AM
 
1,299 posts, read 480,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Actually there is evidence of the Injeel. Part of it in the Quotes attributed to Jesus(a.s.) in Matthew, Mark, John and Luke. From those we do know Jesus(a.s.) preached. His preachings are the Injeel, but it was never written down or if it was it was suppressed.

The Gospels were written by the ones who heared the preaching of Jesús. And that is the Gospel. The same way all the Torah was not written by God but by what Moses heared, the same with Eliah, Isaiah, etc.


It is what we revceived the way God wanted us to received. Not what We think we should have received and we didn't.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

In all probability the "Sermon on the Mount" came from the Injeel.

No, it didn't. It came from the Gospels of Matthew,Mark and Luke. In Fact the Gospel is Jesús Himself, he is the Incarnated Word of God as we read it in the Gospels. and as we read it in the old Testament Prophets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

It is also probable some parts of the Injeel can be found in some of the Books that were not included in the Bible when the Pope decided what books would make up the Bible.

The Popes received the Canonical Books from the Apostles, The first Pope Was PETER. the major Apostle, Peter gave his sucesor Linus what he received from Jesús Himself. then Linus to Cletus, and Cletus to Clement and so on to our Days to Pope Francis, the same Way all the Bishops received from the other apostles, and as all the apostles were in comunión the same way the Bishops.


The four Gospels were already being transcripted and shared between the bishops and many apocrypha books emerged, and the Bishops knew fromwhat they received from the apostles what was true and what was fake. and in the Year 120 30 years after the Last Apostle died, Saint John, the Bishop of Lyon France Saint Ireneus, defended the four gospels we have from the many apocrypha gospels of the Gnostics qhich were already circulating.


The Bishops, all of them, closed the canon since then, since the LAst Apostle had died.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

A very strong candidate is the "Gospel of Thomas" Founded by St Thomas when he went to India. The First known Christian Church was built by him and his followers were the Thomasons, Which was the oldest known Christians until they were forced to accept Catholicism in about the 1500s. Their entire Bible consisted only of the Gospel of Thomas and it is still available even Translations from the Aramaic that was used in it. Although the Thomas Christians were forced to give up the Gospel of Thomas and follow the Catholic Bible

The problema of the Gospel of Thomas is that it is not consistent with the other four, and we can't know if it is truelly of Thomas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

Here is the Gospel of Thomas translated into English: It very probably contains some words from the Injeel (Gospel of Jesus)

Gospel of Thomas (Lambdin Translation) -- The Nag Hammadi Library

Four Gospels vs one not recognized Gospel which came from far away the lands where the events happened and of which we dont have archeological evidence is not an evidence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

The teaching of Jesus(a.s.) was being taught in India before Greece and Rome formulated the Bible.

Wrong, Peter and Paul were already in Rome and John in Greece and Andrew in Egypt and James in Jerusalem and their message is consisten with the old testament,


Have you read the quotes of the Old Testament where the prophets claim the Messiah God?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

The Christians of Kerala India formed before there was Christianity in Greece and Rome. Their teachings are quite a bit different. Although they were pretty much obliterated by Catholicism and Evangelists going to India Although some still remain.

You can read a little about them Here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_...stian_Churches

Some other Books probably contain some words from the Injeel

For instance The Gospel of Mary

The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene

Another bit of evidence is that for almost 2000 years there has been a Christian legend regarding a Lost Gospel

The Legend of the Lost Gospel

I know of the Malankara and Malabar Traditions of India, and I can say that they Willingly added themselve to our days to the catholic Church despite now no colonial power domaining India.


As I said, we have from 120 AD references of the Four canonical gospels, ¿Do you have any historical reference to Thomas Gospel as old as Saint Ireneus?
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