U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-03-2016, 08:36 AM
 
20 posts, read 14,598 times
Reputation: 15

Advertisements

Assalam Alaykoum,

In 1 Samuel in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), Jonathan is the eldest son of King Saul and the close friend of King David.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_(1_Samuel)

What is the Islamic view of Jonathan? Does the Quran or any hadith speak of Jonathan?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-03-2016, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Force View Post
Assalam Alaykoum,

In 1 Samuel in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), Jonathan is the eldest son of King Saul and the close friend of King David.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_(1_Samuel)

What is the Islamic view of Jonathan? Does the Quran or any hadith speak of Jonathan?
For starters if you were to ask a Jew you will find that the OT is not the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh), it is a misinterpretation of the Tanakh

The Ahadith(plural of Hadith) would not contain anything about Johnathan as they are eye witness accounts of what Muhammad(saws) did or said.


The Qur’an mentions 24 of the Prophets(pbut) in the Qur’an and acknowledges there were more plus some whose names we will never know

Ayub (4 Times)
Dawud (16 times) (David)
Dhul-Kifl (2 times)
Harun (24 times)(Aaron)
Hud (25 times)
Ibrahim (69 times)(Abraham)
Idris (19:56, 21:85)
Ilyas (6:85, 37:123)
Al Yasa (2 times)
Isa (Jesus) (187 times)
Ishaq (17 times)
Ismail (12 times)
Lut (27 times)(Lot)
Muhammad (5 times)
Musa (136 times) Moses
Nuh (43 times)(Noah)
Saleh (9 times)
Shu'ayb (10 times)
Sulayman (17 times)(Solomon)
Yahya (5 times)(John the Baptist)
Yusuf (27 times)(Joseph)
Ya'qub (16 times)(Jacob)
Yunus (4 times)(Jonah)
Zakariyya (7 times)

It also mentions 3 probable Prophets, but we are not absolutely certain they were Prophets

Dhul-Qarnayn (3 times)
Luqman ( in ayyats 31:12-19)
Uzayr (1 Time)

Jonathan, is Yunathan in Arabic, In Hebrew it is Yonaton. Neither name is mentioned in the Qur’an
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-03-2016, 11:29 AM
 
20 posts, read 14,598 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Ahadith(plural of Hadith) would not contain anything about Johnathan as they are eye witness accounts of what Muhammad(saws) did or said.
But it would be possible that Muhammad (saws) spoke about Jonathan. So the only way to know for certain if Jonathan is mentioned somewhere in the Ahadith is to read them all..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-03-2016, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Force View Post
But it would be possible that Muhammad (saws) spoke about Jonathan. So the only way to know for certain if Jonathan is mentioned somewhere in the Ahadith is to read them all..
I personally have read all 7 collections that are recognized as Ahadith by Sunni, While it is true there are millions of alleged Ahadith the majority of them have been shown to have not been produced until nearly 500 years after the Death of Muhammad(saws) Some as recently as the 20th Century.

It is possible Muhammad(saws) heard about Jonathan as there were Christians and Jews in Mecca. But as far as it having been recorded that he has said anything regarding it is doubtful as he preached only what is in the Qur'an. Keep in mind he could not read or write and never read the Bible also He believed the Bible as it exists is not the word of God(swt) He believed fully in the Qur'an

.Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby. - 2:79

Qul ya ahla alkitabi lastum AAala shayin hatta tuqeemoo alttawrata waalinjeela wama onzila ilaykum min rabbikum walayazeedanna katheeran minhum ma onzila ilayka min rabbika tughyanan wakufran fala tasa AAala alqawmi alkafireena

Say: O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk. - 5:68 (Picktall)

The word being translated as Gospel is the Injeel (The Gospel of Jesus)—Not Matthew, Mark, Luke or John
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2017, 07:00 AM
 
144 posts, read 107,161 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Force View Post
Assalam Alaykoum,

In 1 Samuel in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), Jonathan is the eldest son of King Saul and the close friend of King David.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_(1_Samuel)

What is the Islamic view of Jonathan? Does the Quran or any hadith speak of Jonathan?
Waalykom essalam

There's nothing concerning Jonathan in the Quran.

It does talk about Saul (Talout in arabic) and Samuel (in the Quran 2.247 and 2.248) but that's all.

There's no specific view concerning him as the only source we have concerning Jonathan comes from the Bible. There's no confirmation in the Quran or the hadiths concerning the story and anyway the islamic view is always positive regarding to prophets (like David).
So in general islamic view is quite neutral when it comes from biblical characters from the Bible, because there can be false things about events or people and it would be wrong to believe it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2017, 05:54 AM
 
Location: quiet place
271 posts, read 214,198 times
Reputation: 99
well, I would stand by with Woodrow's first comment and I may add that it is not necessary to find Johnathan in Hadiths' collections. Thus, Allah told us in Quran that not all messengers and prophet were mentioned in Quran.


Read Chapter 40, Verse 78

" (78) And We have already sent messengers before you. Among them are those [whose stories] We have related to you, and among them are those [whose stories] We have not related to you. And it was not for any messenger to bring a sign [or verse] except by permission of Allah. So when the command of Allah comes, it will be concluded in truth, and the falsifiers will thereupon lose [all]."

Also, some prophets were mentioned by their features not the given name .So, it seems difficult to specify wether the real name of Dhul-Kifl is Johnathan or could be anyone else

Dhul-Kifl ( is not a first name but a feature or Adjective)

tnx
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2017, 09:36 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
It's a good chance even explain to Muslims is the Prophet Dawood

Daoud in the Torah became the king of the Jews in Palestine

How he became king؟؟؟؟؟

There was a battle between the Palestinians and the Jews
The Jews were a shepherd
In young age

Goliath was a huge fighter
For this reason, it did not make any Jew of his duel fighters

Here Dawood came and knew the challenge

Dawood said it had accepted the challenge

The progress and the courage of the Palestinian killed

Yes kill innovative and intelligent manner, which he used a slingshot, a stone which was used in bird hunting Thereat--------------
---------------------
the question is
Are Muslims in the world knows these historical facts
------------------------
Muslims believe in the world
The Palestinian Arabs
But the historical truth is that the Palestinians are not Arabs
And that Palestine is not an Arab
Al-Aqsa mosque and an Islamic myth
Will the Muslims in the world knows these facts
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2017, 03:38 AM
 
144 posts, read 107,161 times
Reputation: 90
Abraham came from Mesopotamia which is actual Syria+Irak region.
The jews were not from Israel at the beginning, they fought against the inhabitants of the region.

The point is not here.

The inhabitants of this region were always mixed, they considere themselves to be arabs now but palestinians know their history.
The majority of arab people are mixed. The less mixed are maybe the emiratis and saudis.

You don't understand the term of "arab".
A Sudanese can claims to be arab (some don't considere they are arabs) even he is maybe not mixted at all with arabs. This is specific to our culture and history.

There's no need to always create a fight between people you are not part of.
You don't have to say to people what they are or claim they should say they are.
There's people who considere themselves to be arabs even if they are maybe not (or a little) and other who don't even if they have an arabic culture and probably were mixed.

Even the jews are mixed people, some are arabs some are black like the falashas (beta israel) etc, so bringing the ideology of a pure arab race is stupid. The semitic people are mixed.

The spiritual meaning is what is important, not from which origins this one or that other is.
And muslims are quite familiar with the story of David as he is an important prophet in Islam.

There's some prophets muslims are not very familiar with like Elisha (Al Yasaa) or Ilies/Elias (Elijah) or not at all, because not mentionned.
The important thing here is what God (Allah) wants us to learn from them. Not who is better, from which origine he was or what was called his religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2017, 03:01 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazira View Post
Abraham came from Mesopotamia which is actual Syria+Irak region.
The jews were not from Israel at the beginning, they fought against the inhabitants of the region.

The point is not here.

The inhabitants of this region were always mixed, they considere themselves to be arabs now but palestinians know their history.
The majority of arab people are mixed. The less mixed are maybe the emiratis and saudis.

You don't understand the term of "arab".
A Sudanese can claims to be arab (some don't considere they are arabs) even he is maybe not mixted at all with arabs. This is specific to our culture and history.

There's no need to always create a fight between people you are not part of.
You don't have to say to people what they are or claim they should say they are.
There's people who considere themselves to be arabs even if they are maybe not (or a little) and other who don't even if they have an arabic culture and probably were mixed.

Even the jews are mixed people, some are arabs some are black like the falashas (beta israel) etc, so bringing the ideology of a pure arab race is stupid. The semitic people are mixed.

The spiritual meaning is what is important, not from which origins this one or that other is.
And muslims are quite familiar with the story of David as he is an important prophet in Islam.

There's some prophets muslims are not very familiar with like Elisha (Al Yasaa) or Ilies/Elias (Elijah) or not at all, because not mentionned.
The important thing here is what God (Allah) wants us to learn from them. Not who is better, from which origine he was or what was called his religion.
OK
You say that what is important is faith
Jewish doctrine says that God grant that land to his people Israel
The Koran recognizes the God
This verse is from the Koran
For God but who believed in the children of Israel
So if it is the same God in the Koran and the Torah
So why Atkhaddon to him and confess to the right of the people of Israel in Palestine
Because God wants it
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2017, 03:51 AM
 
144 posts, read 107,161 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
OK
You say that what is important is faith
Jewish doctrine says that God grant that land to his people Israel
The Koran recognizes the God
This verse is from the Koran
For God but who believed in the children of Israel
So if it is the same God in the Koran and the Torah
So why Atkhaddon to him and confess to the right of the people of Israel in Palestine
Because God wants it
Do you remember that before it was a christian land ?
It wasn't a problem for you when the christians ruled over the jews and when they were persecuted from the land. The crusaders fought against the muslims not to give the land to the jews but for themselves.

Isn't there something in the Bible about the land given to the jews in the Bible ?
Isn't the Bible also your Holy Book ?

You say to muslims that they should give back this land to them but if it was christians who still ruled instead of muslims they would never gave them this land to this day.

But as it's muslims suddenly some christians take the side of the jews. If Islam never existed or had never conquested this land the christians would have never gave them anything from the land.

But please don't turn this thread to an israeli-palestinian debate .
We are talking faith here not politic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top