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Old 12-19-2016, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,590,096 times
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There are 696 verses in the Quran with "illa" i.e. 'except' or 'save' as in old English.

From the above I have extracted 200+ verses [next post] with "illa" in a double negative structure in complement with the other negative element, such as not, never, none, never, no, and the likes.

All these 200+ verses with double negative elements are in accordance to its principles, i.e. if we remove the "illa" [except] with its negative compliment, what we get is the basic positive message without the emphasis.

E.g.
2:9 .. and they [infidels] beguile none save themselves;
remove the double negatives we have,
2:9 .. and they [infidels] beguile only themselves;
2:102. and ... but they injure thereby no one save by Allah's leave
remove the double negatives we have,
2:102. and ... but they injure thereby one only by Allah's leave
10:100. It is not for any soul to believe [be a Muslim] save [except] by the permission of Allah.
remove the double negatives we have,
10:100. It is for any soul to believe [be a Muslim] by the permission of Allah.
The same principle applies to all verses with the double negatives elements.

Since 51:56 has the same pattern structure as the 200+ verses with double negative elements, we can apply the same principle of removing the double negative to reveal the basis message, i.e.
51:56 And not I have created the jinn and the mankind except that they worship Me.
remove the double negatives we have,
51:56 And [] I have created the jinn and the mankind [] that they worship Me.
Can any one prove to me, is there any reason for 51:56 to be an exception from the 200+ verses of the same double negative structure?
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,590,096 times
Reputation: 461
Here ia a list 1 of 3 [appx 70 verses];
[To shorten and save space, the verses contain only the relevant part showing 'save' i.e. 'except'
I have bolded 'save' and the corresponding negative in some verses.]


9. They [infidels, Kuffar] think to beguile [trick mislead; delude.] Allah and those [Muslims] who believe, and they [infidels] beguile none save themselves; but they [the Kuffar] perceive not. 2:9

80. And they [infidels] say: The fire (of punishment) will not touch save for a certain number of days. 2:80

83. And (remember) when We [Allah] made a covenant with the Children of Israel, (saying): Worship none save Allah (only), 2:83

102. and ... but they injure thereby no one save by Allah's leave. 2:102

132. The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion [alddeena]; therefore die not save [except] as men [Muslims] who have surrendered (unto Him). 2:132

150. Whencesoever thou comest forth turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship; and wheresoever ye may be (O Muslims) turn your faces toward it [Kaaba] (when ye pray) so that men may have no argument against you, save such of them [infidels] as do injustice. 2:150

163. [O Muslims] Your God is One God [wāḥidan; Waw-Ha-Dal; tawhid]; there is no God save Him, the Beneficent, the Merciful. 2:163

255. Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. 2:255

267. O ye [Muslim] who believe! Spend of the good things which ye have earned, and of that which we [Allah] bring forth from the earth for you [Muslims], and seek not the bad (with intent) to spend thereof (in charity) when ye [Muslims] would not take it for yourselves save with disdain; and know that Allah is Absolute, Owner of Praise. 2:267

272. And whatsoever good thing ye [Muslims] spend, it is for yourselves, when ye [Muslims] spend not save in search of Allah's countenance; and whatsoever good thing ye [Muslim] spend, it will be repaid to you in full [on J-DAY], and ye will not be wronged [unfairly judged on J-DAY]. 2:272

275. Those [sinners, infidels] who swallow usury cannot rise up save as he [infidels] ariseth whom the devil hath prostrated by (his) touch. 2:275

2. Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. 3:2
6. He [Allah] it is who fashioneth you [mankind] in the wombs as pleaseth Him. There is no God save Him, the Almighty, the Wise. 3:6
7. None knoweth its [allegories'] explanation save Allah. 3:7
18. Allah (Himself) is witness that there is no God save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no God save Him, the Almighty, the Wise. [aka Men of Understanding] 3:18
24. That is because they [infidels] say: The Fire will not touch us [infidels] save for a certain number of days. That [partners, rivals, gods] which they [infidels] used to invent hath deceived them [infidels] regarding their religion [deenihim]. 3:24
62. Lo! This verily is the true narrative [Quran]. There is no God save Allah, and lo! Allah is the Mighty,, the Wise. 3:62
72. ... and believe-not save in one [as infidel] who followeth your religion [deenakum]. 3:72
102. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Observe your duty [ittaqū; fear' WQY] to Allah with right observance and die not save [except] as those [Muslims] who have surrendered (unto Him); 3:102
111. They [infidels] will not harm you [Muslims] save a trifling hurt, and if they [infidels] fight against you they [infidels] will turn and flee. And afterward they [infidels] will not be helped. [culture confidence -pseudo- for Muslims] 3:111
43. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save [except] when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. 4:43
46. . But Allah hath cursed them [Jew infidels] for their disbelief, so they [Jews - infidels] believe not, save a few. [Ra'ina - pejorative] 4:46
64. We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah's leave [permission]. 4:64
83. If it had not been for the grace of Allah and His mercy ye would have followed Satan, save a few (of you). 4:83
87. Allah! There is no God save Him. He gathereth you all [mankind] unto a Day of Resurrection whereof there is no doubt. Who is more true in statement than Allah? 4:87
148. Allah loveth not the utterance of harsh [evil charged] speech save by one who hath been wronged. Allah is ever Nearer, Knower. 4:148
155. , but Allah hath set a seal upon them [infidels] for their disbelief, so that they [infidels] believe-not save a few 4:155
157. they [infidels] have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture ; they [infidels] slew him not [that is] for certain, [Muslims insist Jesus was not killed and crucified] 4:157
171. O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion [deenikum] nor utter aught [anything whatever] concerning Allah save [except] the truth. 4:171
13. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from ALL [Jews] save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly. [* cautioned, reproved, scolded, or reminded?] 5:13
73. They [Christian - infidels] surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three [implied Trinity]; when there is no God save the One God. 5:73
17. If Allah touch thee [as an infidel] with affliction, there is none that can relieve therefrom save Him, and if He touch thee [as Muslim] with good fortune (there is none that can impair it); for He is Able to do all things. 6:17
23. Then will they [infidels] have no contention save that they [infidels] will say: By Allah, our Lord, we [infidels -lying] never were idolaters. 6:23
26. And they [the idolaters] forbid (men) from it [Quran] and avoid it, and they [infidels] ruin none save themselves, though they [infidels] perceive not. [story of Abu Talib -M uncle who protected M but avoided Islam] 6:26
29. And [then] they [infidels] say: There is naught save our life of the world, and we [infidels] shall not be raised (again). [deny resurrection and hereafter] 6:29
6:32. Naught is the life of the world save a pastime and a sport. 6:32
48. We send not the messengers save as bearers of good news and warners. Whoso [Muslims] believeth and doeth right, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. 6:48
102. Such is Allah, your Lord. There is no God save Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him [fa-uʿ'budūhu]. And He taketh care of all things. 6:102
106. Follow that [revelation] which is inspired in thee [Muhammad] from thy Lord; there is no God save Him; and turn away from the idolaters [infidels]. 6:106
138.. No one is to eat of them [the cattles] save whom We [Allah] will - in their make believe cattle whose backs are forbidden [to be burdened with loads], cattle over which they [infidels] mention not the name of Allah. 6:138
151. ... And [5] that ye [Muslims] slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. 6:151
152. And [6] approach not the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better; till he reach maturity. [7] 6:152
5. No plea had they [infidels], when Our terror came unto them, save that they [infidels] said: Lo! We were wrongdoers. 7:5
59. We sent Noah (of old) unto his people, and he said: O my people! Serve Allah. Ye have no other God save Him. 7:59
65. Ye have no other God save Him. 7:65
73. Ye have no other God save Him. A 7:73
85. Ye have no other God save Him. 7:85
99. Are they [infidels] then secure from Allah's scheme? None [infidel] deemeth himself secure from Allah's scheme save folk that perish. 7:99
158. There is no God save Him. 7:158
169. And.... Hath not the covenant of the Scripture been taken on their [infidels] behalf that they should not speak aught concerning Allah save the truth? 7:169
187. It [the HOUR] cometh not to you save [except] unawares. 7:187
188. Say [O Muhammad]: For myself I have no power to benefit, nor power to hurt, save that which Allah willeth. 7:188
16. [Allah Questioning] Or deemed ye [Muslims] that ye would be left [spared] (in peace) when Allah yet knoweth not those [doubtful Muslims] of you who strive, choosing for familiar none [rivals to Allah] save Allah and His messenger and the believers? Allah is Informed of what ye [Muslims] do. 9:16
18. He [Muslim] only shall tend [maintain] Allah's sanctuaries who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor due [zakat] and feareth none save Allah. For such (only) is it possible that they [Muslims] can be of the rightly guided. 9:18
31. There is no god save Him. 9:31
47. Had they [doubtful infidels] gone forth among you [Muslims] they [doubtful infidels] had added to you [Muslims] naught save trouble and had hurried to and fro among you [Muslims], seeking to cause sedition among you [Muslims]; and among you [Muslims] there are some [vulnerable Muslims] who would have listened to them [doubtful infidels]. Allah Is Aware of evil-doers. 9:47
51. Say [Muhammad]: Naught befalleth us [Muslims] save that which Allah hath decreed for us [Muslims]. He is our protecting Friend. In Allah let believers [Muslims] put their trust! 9:51
54. And naught preventeth that their [infidels] contributions should be accepted from them save [except] that they [infidels] have disbelieved in Allah and in His messenger, and they [infidels] come not to worship save as idlers, and pay not (their contribution) save [except] reluctantly. 9:54
107. We purposed naught save good. 9:107
129. Now, if they [infidels] turn away (O Muhammad) say [Muhammd]: Allah sufficeth me. There is no God save Him. In Him have I put my trust, and He is Lord of the Tremendous Throne. 9:129
3. Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind? 10:3
5. He it is who appointed the sun a splendour and the moon a light, and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. Allah created not (all) that save in truth. He detaileth the revelations for people who have knowledge. [Allah is partial] 10:5
49. Say [O Muhammad]: I have no power to hurt or benefit myself, save that which Allah willeth. For every nation there is an appointed time. When their time cometh, then they cannot put it off an hour, nor hasten (it). 10:49
83. But none trusted Moses, save some scions [descendants] of his people, (and they were) in fear of Pharaoh and their chiefs, that they would persecute them. Lo! Pharaoh was verily a tyrant in the land, and Lo! he verily was of the wanton. 10:83
90. I [Pharaoh] believe that there is no God save Him in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who surrender (unto Him). [Pharaoh converted] 10:90
100. It is not for any soul to believe [be a Muslim] save [except] by the permission of Allah. He hath set [cast, lay] uncleanness [disbelief, astray] upon those [infidels] who have no sense [yaʿqilūna; AGL; reason, understanding]. 10:100
107. If Allah aflicteth thee [O Muhammad] with some hurt, there is none who can remove it save Him; and if He desireth good for thee, there is none who can repel His bounty. He striketh with it whom He will of his bondmen. He is the Forgiving, the Merciful. 10:107

Last edited by Continuum; 12-19-2016 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Double Negative Verses
List 2 of 3

14. And if they [infidels] answer not your prayer [challenge], then know that it [Quran] is revealed only in the knowledge of Allah; and that there is no God save Him. Will ye [infidels] then be (of) those who surrender? 11:14

16. Those are they [the infidels] for whom is naught [nothing] in the Hereafter save [except for] the Fire. (All) that they [the infidels] contrive here is vain and (all) that they [infidels] are wont to do is fruitless. 11:16

26. That ye serve none, save Allah. Lo! I fear for you the retribution of a painful Day. 11:26

27. The chieftains of his folk, who disbelieved, said: We see thee but a mortal like us, and we see not that any follow thee save the most abject among us, without reflection. We behold in you no merit above us nay, we deem you liars. [Only the lower people believed Noah, not the rational & credible ones] 11:27

50. And unto (the tribe of) Aad (We sent) their brother, Hud. He said: O my people! Serve Allah! Ye have no other God save Him. Lo! ye do but invent! [Story of Hud 50-60] 11:50
54. We [infidels] say naught save that one of our [infidels'] gods hath possessed thee in an evil way. He said: I call Allah to witness, and do ye (too) bear witness, that I am innocent of (all) that ye ascribe as partners (to Allah) 11:54
61. And unto (the tribe of) Thamud (We sent) their brother Salih.. He said : O my people! Serve Allah, Ye have no other God save Him. 11:61
81.. So travel with thy people in a part of the night, and let not one of you turn round (all) save [except] thy wife. 11:81
84. Ye have no other God save Him! 11:84
88. I desire naught save reform so far as I am able. 11:88
101. We wronged them not, but they did wrong themselves; and their gods on whom they call beside Allah availed them naught then came thy Lords command; they added to them naught save ruin. 11:101
40. The decision rests with Allah only, Who hath commanded you that ye worship none save Him. 12:40
40. The decision rests with Allah only, Who hath commanded you that ye worship none save Him. This is the right religion [alddeenu], but most men know not. 12:40
87. Go, O my sons, and ascertain concerning Joseph and his brother, and despair not of the Spirit of Allah. Lo! none despaireth of the Spirit of Allah save disbelieving folk 12:87
109. We sent not before thee (any messengers) save men whom We inspired from among the folk of the townships. 12:109
14. Unto Him is the real prayer. Those [gods, partners] unto whom they [infidels] pray beside Allah respond to them [infidels] not at all, save as (if the response to) one who stretcheth forth his hands toward water (asking) that it may come unto his mouth, and it will never reach it. The prayer of disbelievers [infidels] goeth (far) astray. 13:14
30. He is my Lord; there is no God save Him. In Him do I put my trust and unto Him is my recourse. 13:30
38. and it was not (given) to any messenger that he should bring a portent save [except] by Allah's leave [permission]. 13:38
4. And We [Allah] never sent a messenger save [except] with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. 14:4
16:4. And We [Allah] never sent a messenger save [except] with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. … 14:4
9. None save Allah knoweth them. 14:9
22. And I had no power over you save that I called unto you and ye obeyed me. 14:22
8. We send not down the angels save with the Fact [Truth], and that case (the disbelievers) [infidels] would not be tolerated. [for disbelieving] 15:8
21. And there is not a thing but with Us are the stores thereof. And We send it not down save in appointed measure. 15:21
42. Lo! as for My slaves [all people], thou hast no power over any of them save [except] such of the froward [the infidels] as follow thee [Iblis], 15:42
56. He said [Abraham asked] : And who despaireth not the mercy of his Lord save those [infidels] who are astray? 15:56
85. We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them save [except] with truth, and lo! the Hour is surely coming. So forgive, O Muhammad, with a gracious forgiveness. 15:85
2. He sendeth down the angels with the Spirit [bil-ruhi] of His command unto whom He will of His bondmen, (saying): Warn mankind that there is no god save Me, so keep your duty unto Me. 16:2
7. .. And they [cattle] bear your loads for you unto a land ye could not reach save with great trouble to yourselves. Lo! your Lord is Full of Pity, Merciful. 16:7
33. Await they [infidels] aught save that the angels should come unto them [infidels] or thy Lord's command should come to pass? Even so did those before them. Allah wronged them not, but they [infidels] did wrong themselves, 16:33
35. Are the messengers charged with aught save plain conveyance (of the message)? 16:35
79. Have they not seen the birds obedient in mid-air? None holdeth them save Allah. Lo! herein, verily, are portents for a people who believe. 16:79
23. Thy Lord hath decreed, that ye worship none save Him, and (that ye show) kindness [iḥ'sānan; be good] to parents. 17:23
23. Thy Lord hath decreed, that ye worship none save Him, 17:23
33. And slay not the life which Allah hath forbidden save with right [just cause]. Whoso is slain wrongfully, We have given power unto his heir, but let him not commit excess in slaying. Lo! he will be helped. 17:33
34. Come not near the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better till he come to strength; and keep the covenant. Lo! of the covenant it will be asked. 17:34
41. We verily have displayed (Our warnings) in this Qur’an that they [infidels] may take heed, but it increaseth them in naught save aversion. 17:41
59. We send not portents save to warn. 17:59
82. And We reveal of the Qur’an that which is a healing [shifa] and a mercy for believers though it increase the evil doers [infidels] in naught [nothing] save [except] ruin. [healing for angst] 89 17:82
87. (It is naught) save mercy from thy Lord. Lo! His kindness unto thee was ever great. 17:87
89. And verily We have displayed for mankind in this Qur’an all kinds of similitudes, but most of mankind [infidels] refuse aught save disbelief. 17:89
93. .. Am I naught save a mortal messenger? 17:93
94. And naught prevented mankind from believing when the guidance came unto them [infidels] save that they said: Hath Allah sent a mortal as (His) messenger? 17:94
99. ? But the wrong doers refuse aught save disbelief. 17:99
102. He [Moses] said : In truth thou knowest that none sent down these (portents) save the Lord of the heavens and the earth as proofs, and lo! (for my part) I deem thee lost, O Pharaoh. 17:102
105. With truth have We sent it down, and with truth hath it descended. And We have sent thee [Muhammad] as naught else save a bearer of good tidings and a warner. 17:105
22. .. None knoweth them save a few. … 18:22
39. There is no strength save in Allah! Though thou seest me as less than thee in wealth and children. 18:39
56. We send not the messengers save as bearers of good news and warners. 18:56
64. We (angels) come not down save by commandment of thy Lord. Unto Him belongeth all that is before us and all that is behind us and all that is between those two, and thy Lord was never forgetful 19:64
87. They [infidels] will have no power of intercession, save [except] him [the Muslim] who hath made a covenant with his Lord 19:87
8. Allah! There is no God save Him. His are the most beautiful names. 20:8
14. Lo! I, even I, am Allah. There is no God save Me. Serve Me and establish worship for My remembrance. 20:14
109. On that Day no intercession availeth [to the infidels] save [except] (that of) him unto whom the Beneficent hath given leave and whose He accepteth: 20:109
25. And We sent no messenger before thee but We inspired him, (saying): There is no God save Me (Allah), so worship Me. [?? No old messengers?] [alt trans: We never sent any messenger who we had not inspired with the following, 'There is no God .."] 21:25
87. There is no God save Thee. Be Thou glorified! I have been a wrong doer. 21:87
107. We sent thee [Muhammad] not save as a mercy for the peoples. 21:107
23. And We verily sent Noah unto his folk, and he said: O my people! Serve Allah. Ye have no other god save Him. Will ye not ward off (evil)? 23:23
32. And We sent among them a messenger of their own saying: Serve Allah. Ye have no other god save Him. Will ye not ward off (evil)? 23:32
116. Now Allah be exalted, the True King! There is no God save Him, the Lord of the Throne of Grace [honorable, l-karīmi الْكَرِيمِ ك ر م ]. 23:116
3. The adulterer shall not marry save an adulteress or an idolatress, and the adulteress none shall marry save an adulterer or an idolater. All that is forbidden unto believers. 24:3
31. [Re Hijab] And ... and not to reveal their adornment [bizīnatin بِزِينَةٍ ز ى ن ] save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands fathers, 24:31
50. And verily We have repeated it among them that they may remember, but most of mankind [infidels] begrudge aught save in gratitude. 25:50
57. Say [O Muhammad]: I ask of you no reward for this, save [except] that whoso will - may choose a way [the straight path] unto his Lord. 25:57
68. And those [Muslims] who cry not unto any other god along with Allah, nor take the life which Allah hath forbidden save in (course of) justice, nor commit adultery and whoso doeth this [infidels] shall pay the penalty; 25:68
26. [He is] Allah; there is no God save Him, the Lord of the tremendous Throne. 27:26
56. But the answer of his folk [the infidels] was naught save [except] that they [infidels] said: Expel the household of Lot from your township, for they [Muslims] (forsooth) are folk who would keep clean! 27:56
65. Say (O Muhammad): None in the heavens and the earth knoweth the Unseen save [except] Allah; and they [men] know not when they will be raised (again). 27:65
81. Nor canst thou lead the blind out of their error. Thou canst make none to hear, save those who believe Our revelations and who have surrendered. 27:81
58. And how many a community [of infidels] have We destroyed that was thankless for its means of livelihood! And yonder are their dwellings, which have not been inhabited after them save a little. And We, even We, were the inheritors. 28:58
70. And He is Allah; there is no God save Him. His is all praise in the former and the latter (state), and His is the command, and unto Him ye will be brought back. 28:70
88. And cry not unto any other god [idols, false deities] along with Allah. There is no God save him. Everything will perish save His countenance. His is the command, and unto Him ye [Muslim] will be brought back. 28:88
43. As for these similitudes [parables], We coin them for mankind, but none [infidels] will grasp their meaning save the wise. 29:43
46. And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them [Jews] as do wrong; 29:46
47. And none deny our revelations save the disbelievers 29:47
49. But it [this Quran] is clear revelations [as in] in the hearts of those [Muslims of old] who have been given knowledge, and none deny our revelations save wrong doers [infidels]. 29:49
8. Have they [infidels] not pondered upon themselves? Allah created not the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them, save [except] with truth and for a destined end [appointed term]. But truly many of mankind are disbelievers [infidels] in the meeting with their Lord. 30:8
53. Nor canst thou guide the blind out of their error. Thou canst make none [infidels] to hear save those [Muslims] who believe in Our revelations so that they surrender (unto Him). 30:53
32. And if a wave enshroudeth them [hypocrites] like awnings, they cry unto Allah, making their faith pure for Him only. But when He bringeth them safe to land, some [infidels-hypocrites] of them compromise. None denieth Our signs save every traitor ingrate [infidels]. 31:32
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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the final portion 3 of 3 listings.
The total of the 3 listings is about 207 verses.

In all the 207 verses [there could be more] and note the double negative related to "illa" [except or save] and remove them mentally, you will note the basic positive message.

My point;
To consistent with the principles of double negative and the many verses involved, it is only correct that 51:56 be applied the same principle.

Therefore the basic message of 51:56 MUST be;
And [xxx] I have created the jinn and the mankind [xxx] that they ya'budu Me.
It cannot be otherwise as you had claimed.


The Verses list 3 of 3
18. Allah already knoweth those of you [hypocrites] who hinder, and those [hypocrites] who say unto their brethren: "Come ye hither unto us!" and they [hypocrites] come not to the stress of battle save a little, 33:18

20. They [hyprocrites] hold that the Clans [coalition of the enemies] have not retired (for good); and if the Clans should advance (again), they [hypocrites] would fain [eager -archaic] be in the desert with the wandering Arabs, asking for the news of you [Muhammad] and if they [hypocrites] were among you [Muhammad], they [these hypocrites] would not give battle, save a little. 33:20

39. [The messenger -Muhammad] Who delivered the messages of Allah and feared Him, and feared none save Allah. 33:39

52. It is not allowed thee [Muhammad] to take [marry] (other) women henceforth nor that thou shouldst change them for other wives even though their beauty pleased thee [Muhamamad], save those [slaves] whom thy right hand possesseth. 33:52

14. And when We decreed death for him [Solomon], nothing showed his death to them [jinn] save a creeping creature of the earth which gnawed away his staff. 34:14

21. And he [Satan] had no warrant whatsoever against them [Muslims], save that We would know him [Muslim] who believeth in the Hereafter from him [infidel] who is in doubt thereof; and thy Lord (O Muhammad) taketh note of all things. 34:21
23. No intercession availeth with Him save for him whom He permitteth. Yet, when fear is banished from their [Muslims'] hearts, they say: What was it that your Lord said? They say: The Truth. And He is the Sublime, the Great. 34:23
28. And We have not sent thee (O Muhammad) save [except] as a bringer of good tidings and a warner unto all mankind; but most of mankind know not. 34:28
33. Are they requited aught save what they did? 34:33
3. O mankind! Remember Allah's grace toward you! Is there any creator other than Allah who provideth for you from the sky and the earth? There is no God save Him. Whither then are ye turned? 35:3
11. No female beareth or bringeth forth save with His knowledge. 35:11
39. Their [infidels'] disbelief increaseth for the disbelievers, in their Lord's sight, naught save abhorrence. 35:39
42. yet, when a warner came unto them [infidels] it aroused in them [infidels] naught save repugnance [by disbelievers], 35:42
43. Then, can they [infidels] expect aught save the treatment [punishment] of the [infidels] folk of old? [No!] Thou wilt not find for Allah's way of treatment any substitute, nor wilt thou find for Allah's way of treatment aught of power to change. 35:43
54. This day no soul is wronged* in aught; nor are ye [all people] requited aught save what ye used to do. [all will be judged fairly] 36:54
35. For when it was said unto them, There is no god save Allah, they [infidels] were scornful 37:35
39. Ye are requited naught save what ye [infidels] did 37:39
65. ... and there is no God save Allah, the One [l-wāḥidu], the Absolute [l-qahāru; almighty, subduer], 38:65
6. There is no God save Him. How then are ye [infidels] turned away? 39:6
40:3. [Allah is ] The Forgiver of sin, the Acceptor of repentance, the Stern in punishment, the Bountiful. There is no God save Him. Unto Him is the journeying. 40:3
4. None argue concerning the revelations of Allah save [except] those [infidels] who disbelieve, so let not their [infidels'] turn of fortune [wealth] in the land deceive thee (O Muhammad). 40:4
13. He [Allah] it is who showeth you His portents, and sendeth down for you provision from the sky. None [infidels] payeth heed save him [Muslim] who turneth (unto Him) repentant. 40:13
56. Lo! those [infidels] who wrangle concerning the revelations of Allah without a warrant having come unto them, there is naught else in their breasts save pride which they [infidels] will never attain. 40:56
62. Such is Allah, your Lord, the Creator of all things. There is no God save Him. How then are ye [infidels] perverted? 40:62
65. He is the Living One. There is no God save Him. So pray unto Him, making religion [alddeena] pure for Him (only). Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds! 40:65
78. and it was not given to any messenger that he should bring a portent save by Allah's leave, but when Allah's commandment cometh (the cause) is judged aright, and the followers of vanity [infidels] will then be lost. 40:78
35. But none is granted it save those [Muslims] who are steadfast, and none is granted it save the owner of great happiness. 41:35
43. Naught [nothing new] is said unto thee (Muhammad) save what was said unto the messengers before thee. 41:43
23. Say (O Muhammad, unto mankind): I ask of you no fee therefor, save loving kindness among kinsfolk [Muslims]. 42:23
58. And [infidels] say: Are our [infidels] gods better, or is he [Jesus]? They [infidels] raise not the objection save for argument. Nay! but they [infidels] are a contentious folk. 43:58
8. There is no God save Him. He quickeneth [restore life] and giveth death; your Lord and Lord of your forefathers. 44:8
39. We created them [heavens & Earth] not save with truth; but most of them [infidels] know not. 44:39
56. They [Muslims] taste not death therein, save [except] the first death [in the physical world]. And He hath saved them [Muslims] from the doom of hell, 44:56
24. And they [infidels] say: There is naught but our life of the world; we die and we live, and naught destroyeth us [infidels] save time; when they [infidels] have no knowledge whatsoever of (all) that; they [infidels] do but guess. 45:24
3. We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them save with truth, and for a term appointed. But those [infidels] who disbelieve turn away from that whereof they [infidels] are warned. 46:3
17. And … But he [the infidel son] saith: This [belief of Islam] is naught save fables of the men of old: 46:17
35. .. Shall any be destroyed save evil living folk [infidels]? 46:35
18. Await they [infidels] aught save the Hour, that it should come upon them unawares? And the beginnings [of the Hour] thereof have already come. But how, when it hath come upon them [infidels], can they [infidels] take their warning? 47:18
19. So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, 47:19
15. ... Then they [lesser Muslims] will say: Ye are envious of us. Nay, but they [lesser Muslims] understand not, save a little. 48:15
56. And not I have created the jinn and the mankind except that they worship Me. 51:56
4. It [Quran] is naught save an inspiration that is inspired, [2-12 declaration by the Quran itself that Muhammad -a passive instrument of revelation (ver. 6-10), words of the Quran are not words of Muhammad himself. ] 53:4
26. And how many angels are in the heavens whose intercession availeth naught save after Allah giveth leave to whom He chooseth and accepteth! 53:26
33. O company of jinn and men, if ye have power to penetrate [pass beyond] (all) regions of the heavens and the earth; then penetrate (them)! Ye will never penetrate them save with (Our) sanction. 55:33
79. Which none toucheth save the purified, 56:79
14. They [hypocrites] will not fight against you [Muslims] in a body save in fortified villages or from behind walls. 59:14
11. No calamity befalleth save by Allah's leave. And whosoever [Muslims] believeth in Allah, He guideth his heart. And Allah is Knower of all things. 64:11
13. Allah! There is no God save Him. In Allah, therefore, let believers [Muslims] put their trust [falyatawakkali]. 64:13
7. . Allah asketh naught of any soul save that which He hath given it. Allah will vouchsafe, after hardship, ease. 65:7
19. Have they [infidels] not seen the birds above them spreading out their wings and closing them? Naught upholdeth them [infidels] save the Beneficent. Lo! He is Seer of all things. 67:19
24. And they [infidels] have led many astray, and Thou increasest the wrong doers in naught save error. 71:24
27. If Thou shouldst leave them [infidels], they will mislead Thy slaves [Muslims] and will beget none [Muslims] save lewd ingrates [infidels]. 71:27
71:28. My Lord! Forgive me and my parents and him who entereth my house believing, and believing men and believing women, and increase not the wrong doers [infidels] in aught save ruin. 71:28
9. Lord of the East and the West; there is no God save Him; so choose thou Him alone for thy defender 73:9
31. We … ... None knoweth the hosts of thy Lord save Him. This [Quran] is naught else than a Reminder unto mortals. 74:31
30. So taste (of that which ye [infidels] have earned). No increase do We give you [infidels] save of torment. 78:30
12. Which none denieth save each criminal transgressor [infidel], 83:12
8. They [infidels] had naught against them [Muslims] save that they [Muslims] believed in Allah, the Mighty, the Owner of Praise, 85:8
6. No food for them [infidels] save bitter thorn fruit 88:6
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There are 696 verses in the Quran with "illa" i.e. 'except' or 'save' as in old English.

From the above I have extracted 200+ verses [next post] with "illa" in a double negative structure in complement with the other negative element, such as not, never, none, never, no, and the likes.
It is your illusion that "illa" in Arabic ("except"/"save"/"but" in English) is negative. Having assumed it (illusion) as real, you are now using it as real negative. The reality is that it is "alla" in Arabic that is negative particle and not "illa" which is either restrictive particle or exceptive particle.

Allah has used His words in the Qur'aan precisely. Each word is there for a precise reason. None can be disregarded or discarded to reach the meanings of the verse. There is another important reason for the structure of the verses which I will explain later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
All these 200+ verses with double negative elements are in accordance to its principles, i.e. if we remove the "illa" [except] with its negative compliment, what we get is the basic positive message without the emphasis.
As "except" ("illa") is not negative ("alla" is negative but not "illa"), your conclusion is based on wrong premise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
E.g.
2:9 .. and they [infidels] beguile none save themselves;
remove the double negatives we have,
2:9 .. and they [infidels] beguile only themselves;
Taking out or discarding none and save has changed the meaning of the verse. Let's look at the verse in context:

[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2:9]..... and they beguile none save themselves;

The verse 2:9 is not saying that they beguile themselves. It is illusion to believe that they beguile themselves. They are trying to beguile others ( save themselves means other than themselves). And that is what is meant by the verse; they do not beguile others. See how you have altered the meaning of the verse by disregarding two words from the verse?

The verse does not say, "... and they beguile themselves" but the verse means "... they do not beguile others".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
2:102. and ... but they injure thereby no one save by Allah's leave
remove the double negatives we have,
2:102. and ... but they injure thereby one only by Allah's leave
You are making the same mistake here too.

The verse is not saying, "and ... but they injure thereby one only by Allah's leave" but the verse means "and ... but they can't injure anyone without Allah's leave".

By disregarding two words of the verse, you have changed its meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
10:100. It is not for any soul to believe [be a Muslim] save [except] by the permission of Allah.
remove the double negatives we have,
10:100. It is for any soul to believe [be a Muslim] by the permission of Allah.
We know that your conclusion (by using an illusion as reality) makes absolutely no sense. It is because of the same mistake you have made here too.

The verse is not saying, "It is for any soul to believe by the permission of Allah" but the verse means "It is not for any soul soul to believe without the permission of Allah".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The same principle applies to all verses with the double negatives elements.
The same mistake must not be made with other verses too or else the verse meaning will alter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Since 51:56 has the same pattern structure as the 200+ verses with double negative elements, we can apply the same principle of removing the double negative to reveal the basis message, i.e.
51:56 And not I have created the jinn and the mankind except that they worship Me.
remove the double negatives we have,
51:56 And [] I have created the jinn and the mankind [] that they worship Me.
You make the same mistake here too!
The verse does not say, "And [] I have created the jinn and the mankind [] that they worship Me" but "And [] I did not created the jinn and the mankind [] that they worship other gods". In this verse, "except Me" is "other gods" such as idols. "Jinn and humans were not created to worship other gods" is the message in the verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Can any one prove to me, is there any reason for 51:56 to be an exception from the 200+ verses of the same double negative structure?
Your mistake is due to your illusion that "illa" in Arabic is negative. In Arabic, it is "alla" that is negative but not "illa". In these verses that you have quoted, not one has "alla" in it that you can use as other negative. Thus you are forced to believe that "illa" is negative.

It looks as if Allah hasn't given you permission to believe that "illa" is not negative but exceptive or restrictive particle.

If it were up to you, my above statement in bold would be "illa" is negative exceptive or restrictive particle.

And now to my other point mentioned above. The structure of the verses mentioned above, including 51:56, is for a precise reason. If the Qur'aan had been written by men of the time, they would have gone for easy word structure such as Continuum has suggested. But Allah's words are full of wisdom and each word chosen precisely. If it had been for the meanings Continuum suggested, the word structure would have been as Continuum suggested. The word structure is not as Continuum suggested, therefore, the meanings too is not as Continuum suggested.

The beauty of the Qur'aan is that Allah helps those who want to believe it and those who have no intention to believe it will have no permission from Allah to believe it. The choice to believe or not to believe is up to each human being. Allah is aware of each one's intention. ALHAMDULILLAH (Praise is for Allah).
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:08 AM
 
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Continuum,

Another important point you need to understand about the Qur'aan is that double negative rule is never done and dusted positive every time. In the Qur'aan, even when there is real double negative particles in the same verse, it does not mean positive. Turning it into positive would alter the meanings of the verse completely.

You do not have to go far from 51:56 to learnt the above lesson.

[51.56] And not I have created the jinn and the mankind except that they worship/serve Me.
[51.57] 1 do not desire from them any sustenance and I do not desire that they should feed Me.

The verse 51:57 has two negative particles. Disregard these two negative particles and you will be left with:

[51:57] 1 desire from them any sustenance and I desire that they should feed Me.

That knocks the stuffing out of your point about use of double negative and not changing the meanings. It is even worse when there is only one negative in the verse and you try to change the meaning of the verse into a positive.
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Old 12-19-2016, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,590,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
It is your illusion that "illa" in Arabic ("except"/"save"/"but" in English) is negative. Having assumed it (illusion) as real, you are now using it as real negative. The reality is that it is "alla" in Arabic that is negative particle and not "illa" which is either restrictive particle or exceptive particle.

Allah has used His words in the Qur'aan precisely. Each word is there for a precise reason. None can be disregarded or discarded to reach the meanings of the verse. There is another important reason for the structure of the verses which I will explain later.

As "except" ("illa") is not negative ("alla" is negative but not "illa"), your conclusion is based on wrong premise.

Taking out or discarding none and save has changed the meaning of the verse. Let's look at the verse in context:

[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2:9]..... and they beguile none save themselves;

The verse 2:9 is not saying that they beguile themselves. It is illusion to believe that they beguile themselves. They are trying to beguile others ( save themselves means other than themselves). And that is what is meant by the verse; they do not beguile others. See how you have altered the meaning of the verse by disregarding two words from the verse?

The verse does not say, "... and they beguile themselves" but the verse means "... they do not beguile others".
[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2:9]..... and they beguile none save themselves;
I am not surprised you failed to perceive the '500 pound gorilla' in the above.

To get to the basic message, take away the double negative, you have
[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2:9]..... and they beguile [] [] themselves;
The central message above is the non-believers are only beguiling themselves.

There are 200+ double negatives with "illa' I listed above and some will have different shades of degrees but the principle with double negative is the same.
Btw, I am not insisting we MUST remove the double negative in translating the Arabic. In fact I will not recommend they be removed since it is already in the Quran*.
My point is, to get to the basic meaning one must put aside the double negative at least mentally.

* Note in real life in our modern era, double negatives are sort of a taboo in applied language as they can cause more confusions than promote comprehension.

My demonstration of removing the double negative is to show how the principles work to get to the basic meaning.
In the case of 51:56, it is to get to the basic meaning of 'purpose of creation' [created] and 'to ya;budu'.
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Note the most critical and famous "illa" in the Quran,
lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāh
There is no god but God
The above has a double negative situation.
Does taking away the two negative change the meaning of monotheism [tawhid] therein?
There is no god but God
take away the two negatives we have
There is [] god [] only God
which the basic meaning is;

There is god, i.e. only God.
The only god is God.
Allah is the only God.

Taking away the two negatives do not change the basic meaning of monotheism.

Elsewhere the basic meaning is phrase without emphasis of 'no' and 'but' or except, e.g.
16:22 Your god (is) God One.
Ilahukum ilahun wahidun

29:46 Inna ilahakum lawahidun

4:171 innama Allahu ilahun wahidun
There are many other similar verses like the above.

Thus deliberating the verses with double-negative re "illa" with the above without illa, we will get the central message.

I have proved with the above examples, removing the two negatives in a double-negative structure, will not change the basic meaning.

Last edited by Continuum; 12-19-2016 at 11:29 PM..
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:45 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,044,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2:9]..... and they beguile none save themselves;
I am not surprised you failed to perceive the '500 pound gorilla' in the above.

To get to the basic message, take away the double negative, you have
[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2:9]..... and they beguile [] [] themselves;
The central message above is the non-believers are only beguiling themselves.
I am not surprised that you failed to understand my point. As long as you keep thinking there is double negative in these verse there is % chance of you understanding these verses of the Qur'an.

The only way you reached the conclusion, "The central message above is the non-believers are only beguiling themselves" is by thinking that there is double negative in the verse. The fact is that there is no second negative in the verse. So your conclusion is wrong.

The central message in the above verses is the non-believers, by saying that they believe, are not beguiling anyone despite them thinking that by saying so they are beguiling the believers.

[2:9] ... and they beguile none other than themselves.

"Other than themselves" are real believers. Therefore, they do not beguile the believers.

And that my friend is a ten tonne gorilla.
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:03 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,044,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There are 200+ double negatives with "illa' I listed above and some will have different shades of degrees but the principle with double negative is the same.
Sooner or later, you will have to understand that "illa" in Arabic is not negative particle.

In Arabic, it is "alla" that is negative particle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Btw, I am not insisting we MUST remove the double negative in translating the Arabic. In fact I will not recommend they be removed since it is already in the Quran*.
Every word in the Qur'aan is for precise purpose. No word is useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
My point is, to get to the basic meaning one must put aside the double negative at least mentally.
To get to the basic message, you have to use every word of the verse.

Why would you "put aside", even mentally, any word of the verse unless you are trying to rephrase the verse to fit the meaning already in your mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
* Note in real life in our modern era, double negatives are sort of a taboo in applied language as they can cause more confusions than promote comprehension.
That's why you are confused because you think there is double negative in the verse 51:56.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
My demonstration of removing the double negative is to show how the principles work to get to the basic meaning.
And I have demonstrated that the second negative is your illusion. In reality there is only one nagative particle in the verse 51:56.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
In the case of 51:56, it is to get to the basic meaning of 'purpose of creation' [created] and 'to ya;budu'.
The basic meaning is that jinn and humans were not created to worship idols (gods than than Allah).
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