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Old 01-03-2017, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
We are not in English Forum or in Language Forum or even Dictionary Terms Forums. We are in Islam Forum. The word "jihad" in Islam can be applied only as applied in the Qur'aan.
What are you talking about?
We are in a English speaking Forum where "Islam" is one sub-forum.

Note you will get "screwed" [punished] if your OP include Arabic letters.

Quote:
Then link it to only Arabic language or English language and not to the Qur'aan or Islam in the term meaning other than that of the Qur'aan.
Context, context, Context.
The linkage is necessary in its right context.

Quote:
No. You do not do that if you are linking it to the Qur'aan and Islam but you must refer it to the Qur'aan.
In any discussions it is most effective to determine the context and perspective before deliberating on the issue.
If you don't do that as you insist above, you are not a good communicator.
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I agree with you on the above.
It is a default standard that there must be sufficient consensus, but not only that, the conclusions must be supported by sound verifiable and repeated justifications.
I agree I have the onus to meet the above standards and I will do so in time.

According to my analysis there are 3,400++ verses that contain evil laden elements of various degrees, note "various degrees" not the same throughout.

Here is one example of an evil laden element of a reasonable high degree within various contexts;
2:191. And slay [wa qtulouhum: kill] them [infidels] wherever ye [you] find them [infidels],
and drive them [infidels] out of the places whence they [infidels] drove you out,
for persecution [Fitna: oppression] is worse than slaughter [killing].
And fight not with them [infidels] at the Inviolable Place of Worship [Ka'aba] until they [infidels] first attack you there, but if they [infidels] attack you (there) then slay them [infidels].
Such is the reward [penalty, jazao جَزَاء] of disbelievers [infidels].
Now you cannot deny 2:191 itself contain evil laden elements, such as "slay them" "fight" "attack" persecution [Fitna: oppression]. etc.

Even when the above has conditions such as '2:190 ...begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not, aggressors'
and '2:192 ..let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers", the fact is 2:191 is like a loaded gun.

The problem here is the vagueness of such terms as "fitna" [persecution, oppression] and "wrongdoers."

The appx 80% majority of Muslims may not be sensitive to the above vagueness as they do not have an active evil tendencies, but the 20% of evil prone Muslims are likely to be sensitive to any thing they felt provoked as 'fitna' and 'wrong doing' against them as Muslims and Islam, i.e. wabiṣaddihim the sabil of Allah.
There are so many aspects of humanity [80% non-Muslim] that will provoked the very sensitive and evil prone Muslims [a potential of 300 million] to be influenced by the 3,400++ evil laden verses and verses that are taken as permission to fight non-Musims re fitna, wrongdoings, corruption, mischiefs, etc.

The fact is no one on earth can judge the evil prone Muslims' interpretations and deeds as wrong. Only Allah can do that. Another point is Judgment Day is likely to be billions of earth years away. Even if they are judged then no one will come back to tell others on earth so they can learn from the judgments made.

The fact is the following exists naturally and are unavoidable at the present;
1. 20% of all humans [therefore also Muslims] has an active evil tendencies who cannot be cured.

2. The Quran contain tons of evil laden verses [loaded guns] for defensive and offensive purposes and they are immutable and eternal.
Therefore the unavoidable existence of the above elements will always enable evils and violence on earth as a result of the combination of the above unavoidable elements.

Do you have any counter to the above?

My point is all these 'evil laden' elements [loaded guns] phrased as offensive or preventive mode should never be included in a holy book, especially when the holy book is to be taken as immutable and eternal.
The problem is that even a warning about doing evil can be construed as having 'evil laden' elements.

Another problem is non-Muslims seem to be under the impression the Qur'an is to be understood as single lines being commandments. The Qur'an is best understood as being a series of short stories relating to the result of specific instances. One can not learn about Islam from the Qur'an alone.

Quote:
Therefore the unavoidable existence of the above elements will always enable evils and violence on earth as a result of the combination of the above unavoidable elements.

Do you have any counter to the above?

My point is all these 'evil laden' elements [loaded guns] phrased as offensive or preventive mode should never be included in a holy book, especially when the holy book is to be taken as immutable and eternal.
That could be true if the Qur'an was the Manual for performing Islam. What is immutable and eternal is the actual Qur'an (Not translations or commentaries) contains the exact words that were reveled to Muhammad(saws). While the Qur'an gives the reason for Islam, it does not teach how to perform Islam. The Third and Fourth essentials beliefs of Muslims are:

Quote:
Belief in the Books of God: Muslims believe that God revealed holy books or scriptures to a number of God's messengers. These include the Quran (given to Muhammad), the Torah (given to Moses), the Gospel (given to Jesus), the Psalms (given to David), and the Scrolls (given to Abraham). Muslims believe that these earlier scriptures in their original form were divinely revealed, but that only the Quran remains as it was first revealed to the prophet Muhammad.

Belief in the Prophets or Messengers of God: Muslims believe that God's guidance has been revealed to humankind through specially appointed messengers, or prophets, throughout history, beginning with the first man, Adam, who is considered the first prophet. Twenty-five of these prophets are mentioned by name in the Quran, including Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Muslims believe that Muhammad is the last in this line of prophets, sent for all humankind with the message of Islam.
This means the truths that were given in the past (Those that were not corrected in the Qur'an) are still applicable. To be Muslim one must heed the words of all the Prophets, including Muhammad(saws) in other words follow the Sunnah.

A typical Muslim learns first how to perform Islam and then the study of the Qur'an begins.. This normally is handed down in families through the teachings of the mothers. One first learns how to be a Muslim, then they learn the Qur'an. There is no excuse for a Muslim to consider the Qur'an to be a text book on how to perform Islam. A study of Ahadith and Sunnah is a precursor for understanding the Qur'an. Not all things that were related to Muhammad(saws) are included in the Qur'an.

Shariah (The Madhabs) developed to prevent Muslims from misinterpreting the Qur'an. (Shariah is not what many non-Muslims think it is)

One does not learn Islam from the Qur'an.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:29 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,210 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What are you talking about?
We are in a English speaking Forum where "Islam" is one sub-forum.
No. We are in Islam Forum, discussing it in English using Qur'aan word "jihad". We are not mixing it up with English style jihad used in English dictionaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note you will get "screwed" [punished] if your OP include Arabic letters.
I have worked as a moderator on another site and know well that at least the OP should be in English or explained in English to make it easy for the posters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Context, context, Context.
The linkage is necessary in its right context.
Exactly! All "evil elements" must be in context or else none could be evil elements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
In any discussions it is most effective to determine the context and perspective before deliberating on the issue.
Keep that in mind every time you mention "evil elements" in the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If you don't do that as you insist above, you are not a good communicator.
Keep that too in your mind.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:04 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,210 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The problem is that even a warning about doing evil can be construed as having 'evil laden' elements.
I think it is even worse than that. Even one word for some is evil elements. Let's list those words:

1. Mushrikeen (Polytheists)

2. fight

3. jihad

4. strive

5. strongly

6. evil

7. punish

8. wrath

9. ashtray

10. punishment

11. deaf

12. dumb

13. blind

14. fear

15 death

16. disgrace

17. battlefield

18. submission

19. molest

20. hypocrite

21. flood

22 earthquake

23. hijab

24. Muhammad

25. Muslim

ALLAHUAKBAR

The list is many thousand words long. At least one poster is making this list to find the root cause of evil in the Qur'aan.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,591,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I think it is even worse than that. Even one word for some is evil elements. Let's list those words:

1. Mushrikeen (Polytheists)

2. fight

3. jihad

4. strive

5. strongly

6. evil

7. punish

8. wrath

9. ashtray

10. punishment

11. deaf

12. dumb

13. blind

14. fear

15 death

16. disgrace

17. battlefield

18. submission

19. molest

20. hypocrite

21. flood

22 earthquake

23. hijab

24. Muhammad

25. Muslim

ALLAHUAKBAR

The list is many thousand words long. At least one poster is making this list to find the root cause of evil in the Qur'aan.
I did mention some words tend towards 'evil' but in my claim of 3,400++ which are evil laden [loaded with], they are all within context of 'evil' against infidels and some directed at believers.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,591,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The problem is that even a warning about doing evil can be construed as having 'evil laden' elements.
The point is what sort of warning and in what context.
Evil is a concept that is very vulnerable to the very sensitive people and thus extra care must be taken in using evil concepts in the correct context. The concepts of evil is different from warning a child against going near a fire or other dangers.
Note 2:191-193 where the 'except A-ālimīna' open up a big hole to catalyze vulnerable evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.

Quote:
Another problem is non-Muslims seem to be under the impression the Qur'an is to be understood as single lines being commandments. The Qur'an is best understood as being a series of short stories relating to the result of specific instances. One can not learn about Islam from the Qur'an alone.
You got this wrong.
Me and other non-Muslims has never claimed the Quran is all single-line commandments.

It is Allah in the Quran who claimed the Quran is perfected, completed and fully explained as a guide for Muslims to achieve the highest level of Tagwa.
Therefore the Quran alone and is the ONLY source to guide Muslims through the Straight Path in their journey of returning to Allah.

Allah laid down the complete doctrinal principles for a Muslim and the Stories also reflect the eternal principles and they are also reminders and warnings to Muslims not to repeat the errors of past Muslims who strayed from the straight path.

Quote:
This means the truths that were given in the past (Those that were not corrected in the Qur'an) are still applicable. To be Muslim one must heed the words of all the Prophets, including Muhammad(saws) in other words follow the Sunnah.
What is critical here is Muslims must heed the message of Allah delivered by the messengers, not whatever words expressed by the Messengers.
Allah convey his message via messengers in a Quran [oral or otherwise]. Whatever is not revealed in the Quran is not THE MESSAGE of Allah.

Quote:
A typical Muslim learns first how to perform Islam and then the study of the Qur'an begins.. This normally is handed down in families through the teachings of the mothers. One first learns how to be a Muslim, then they learn the Qur'an. There is no excuse for a Muslim to consider the Qur'an to be a text book on how to perform Islam. A study of Ahadith and Sunnah is a precursor for understanding the Qur'an. Not all things that were related to Muhammad(saws) are included in the Qur'an.
This is obviously the wrong way and understanding.
The only divinely authorized way to be a Muslim is using the Quran as the ultimate guide.
A initiate may learn and cultivate Islam crudely from parents, teachers, who may not be well versed with the intended Path of Allah, in this way they are doing the best they can, but the ultimate is the Muslim must strive [jihad] as a Muslim as Allah intended.
For example;
The official standard for a country X is all doctors and those performing surgery even minor ones must be a properly qualified doctor who has attended and pass medical school.
However, where a village is very distant from the city, the government may bent its rule to allow a person qualified as medical assistant to be appointed as the village doctor to perform the duty of a doctor in the best way he can. The reason is, because of the isolation no qualified doctors would agree to work in such an isolated place. Therefore as a compromise a medical assistance is appointed as a doctor, even to perform minor surgery and other duties that a qualified doctor does.
But the government will strive its best to ensure in the long run, the official standard must be met.
As in the above example, the official standard from Allah is all Muslims must abide by the Quran fully. However due to various circumstances not all Muslims can meet the expected standard by Allah. So Allah being compassionate will accept the best on can do. Note Allah's comment on the Muslim_ness of the wandering Arabs.

Now your proposal to ignore the Quran as the final and ultimate guidance is defying Allah's expectation.
The fact is the Sunnah IS NOT Allah's words but merely hearsays attributed to Muhammad.
Only deeds based on Allah's words will be accepted by Allah on Judgment Day.

Quote:
Shariah (The Madhabs) developed to prevent Muslims from misinterpreting the Qur'an. (Shariah is not what many non-Muslims think it is)
As long as the Ahadiths are within the scope of the Quran, there is no issue. Example the discussion on the term 'jihad' [English and MSA] where if the deeds done are with good intentions are in accordance with the Quran's verses, then it will be acceptable to Allah on Judgment Day.
The fact is, many of the Ahadith are deviate from the Quran and some are really absurd. Example, any hadith that demand a Muslimah must cover her hair is not Allah's words and thus has no divine right to it.

Quote:
One does not learn Islam from the Qur'an.
The Quran is not a detailed working instruction manual, but all its doctrinal principles are detailed and expounded as sufficient guidance to a Muslim to journey on the Straight Path to return to Allah.
Whatever is outside the scope of the Quran cannot be Islamic.
12:111. In their [messengers'] history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It [Quran] is no invented story [fabricated hadith, narration] but a confirmation of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe.

25:31. Even so have We appointed unto every Prophet an opponent from among the guilty [sinners]; but Allah sufficeth for a Guide and Helper.
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The point is what sort of warning and in what context.
Evil is a concept that is very vulnerable to the very sensitive people and thus extra care must be taken in using evil concepts in the correct context. The concepts of evil is different from warning a child against going near a fire or other dangers.
Note 2:191-193 where the 'except A-ālimīna' open up a big hole to catalyze vulnerable evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.

You got this wrong.
Me and other non-Muslims has never claimed the Quran is all single-line commandments.

It is Allah in the Quran who claimed the Quran is perfected, completed and fully explained as a guide for Muslims to achieve the highest level of Tagwa.
Therefore the Quran alone and is the ONLY source to guide Muslims through the Straight Path in their journey of returning to Allah.

Allah laid down the complete doctrinal principles for a Muslim and the Stories also reflect the eternal principles and they are also reminders and warnings to Muslims not to repeat the errors of past Muslims who strayed from the straight path.

What is critical here is Muslims must heed the message of Allah delivered by the messengers, not whatever words expressed by the Messengers.
Allah convey his message via messengers in a Quran [oral or otherwise]. Whatever is not revealed in the Quran is not THE MESSAGE of Allah.

This is obviously the wrong way and understanding.
The only divinely authorized way to be a Muslim is using the Quran as the ultimate guide.
A initiate may learn and cultivate Islam crudely from parents, teachers, who may not be well versed with the intended Path of Allah, in this way they are doing the best they can, but the ultimate is the Muslim must strive [jihad] as a Muslim as Allah intended.
For example;
The official standard for a country X is all doctors and those performing surgery even minor ones must be a properly qualified doctor who has attended and pass medical school.
However, where a village is very distant from the city, the government may bent its rule to allow a person qualified as medical assistant to be appointed as the village doctor to perform the duty of a doctor in the best way he can. The reason is, because of the isolation no qualified doctors would agree to work in such an isolated place. Therefore as a compromise a medical assistance is appointed as a doctor, even to perform minor surgery and other duties that a qualified doctor does.
But the government will strive its best to ensure in the long run, the official standard must be met.
As in the above example, the official standard from Allah is all Muslims must abide by the Quran fully. However due to various circumstances not all Muslims can meet the expected standard by Allah. So Allah being compassionate will accept the best on can do. Note Allah's comment on the Muslim_ness of the wandering Arabs.

Now your proposal to ignore the Quran as the final and ultimate guidance is defying Allah's expectation.
The fact is the Sunnah IS NOT Allah's words but merely hearsays attributed to Muhammad.
Only deeds based on Allah's words will be accepted by Allah on Judgment Day.

As long as the Ahadiths are within the scope of the Quran, there is no issue. Example the discussion on the term 'jihad' [English and MSA] where if the deeds done are with good intentions are in accordance with the Quran's verses, then it will be acceptable to Allah on Judgment Day.
The fact is, many of the Ahadith are deviate from the Quran and some are really absurd. Example, any hadith that demand a Muslimah must cover her hair is not Allah's words and thus has no divine right to it.

The Quran is not a detailed working instruction manual, but all its doctrinal principles are detailed and expounded as sufficient guidance to a Muslim to journey on the Straight Path to return to Allah.
Whatever is outside the scope of the Quran cannot be Islamic.
12:111. In their [messengers'] history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It [Quran] is no invented story [fabricated hadith, narration] but a confirmation of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe.

25:31. Even so have We appointed unto every Prophet an opponent from among the guilty [sinners]; but Allah sufficeth for a Guide and Helper.
I believe you will find most if not all Muslims will disagree with you on this.


Quote:
It is Allah in the Quran who claimed the Quran is perfected, completed and fully explained as a guide for Muslims to achieve the highest level of Tagwa.
Therefore the Quran alone and is the ONLY source to guide Muslims through the Straight Path in their journey of returning to Allah.

Allah laid down the complete doctrinal principles for a Muslim and the Stories also reflect the eternal principles and they are also reminders and warnings to Muslims not to repeat the errors of past Muslims who strayed from the straight path.

What is critical here is Muslims must heed the message of Allah delivered by the messengers, not whatever words expressed by the Messengers.
Allah convey his message via messengers in a Quran [oral or otherwise]. Whatever is not revealed in the Quran is not THE MESSAGE of Allah.
The Qur'an does not teach us how to be Muslims it teaches the reasons why we should be Muslims. It is perfect in the concept it is the exact words as recited to Muhammad(saws)

A person will not learn how to perform Islam through the Qur'an alone. I will venture to go so far as to say the Majority of the world's Muslims have never read the Qur'an and never will.(They will have read Translations).

Also the words of instruction given by the Prophets are to be followed. Although currently the only ones we know to be actual instructions through a Messenger is the Sunnah that can be traced directly to Muhammad(saws)

The study of Ahadith is best left to the Scholars who have first completed a comprehensive study on the methodologies of how the various compilations came to be.

Before a Muslim even touches a Qur'an he learns the required protocols. such as doing wudu, praying for guidance, having the proper intentions etc.

What is interesting is most Islamic Terrorists have had very little actual exposure to Islam
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,591,365 times
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Quote:
The Quran is not a detailed working instruction manual, but all its doctrinal principles are detailed and expounded as sufficient guidance to a Muslim to journey on the Straight Path to return to Allah.
Whatever is outside the scope of the Quran cannot be Islamic.
12:111. In their [messengers'] history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It [Quran] is no invented story [fabricated hadith, narration] but a confirmation of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe.

25:31. Even so have We appointed unto every Prophet an opponent from among the guilty [sinners]; but Allah sufficeth for a Guide and Helper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I believe you will find most if not all Muslims will disagree with you on this.
That is very strange??

Those are not my words, they are Allah's words from the Quran.
If you say, "most if not all Muslims will disagree with you on this [the above]"
they are in fact disagreeing with Allah.

If the above verses are from Allah, then objectively those who disagree with the above are disagreeing with Allah.

Quote:
The Qur'an does not teach us how to be Muslims it teaches the reasons why we should be Muslims. It is perfect in the concept it is the exact words as recited to Muhammad(saws)

A person will not learn how to perform Islam through the Qur'an alone. I will venture to go so far as to say the Majority of the world's Muslims have never read the Qur'an and never will.(They will have read Translations).
The Quran is a guidance [Allah all powerful] that has the potential that will enable a Muslim to a perfect 100% Muslim.

However Allah recognize most Muslims will not be perfect 100% Muslims. Thus Muslims all over the world will be of different grades and degree in relation to the best of their abilities and capabilities in accordance to their circumstances.
6:132. For all [of mankind] there will be ranks [degrees] from what they did Thy Lord is not unaware of what they [infidels] do.

6:165. He [Allah]... and hath exalted some of you in rank above others, that He may try you [Muslims] by (the test of) that which He hath given you. Lo!

8:4. Those [Muslims] are they who are in truth believers [almu'minoona]. For them [Muslims] are grades [degrees] (of honour) with their Lord, and pardon, and a bountiful provision [wariz'qun].
In the present circumstances, the majority of Muslims may not read the Quran thoroughly, thus they rely on secondary sources. They are likely to be 40% grade of Muslim [8:4].
However in other verses, Muslims are supposed to jihad [strive] to higher and higher degrees of Muslim_ness to 60%, 80% [the mushin, muttageen, al-babi, Mukhlis, abrar, etc.].
When a Muslim strive at the level of 60 to 80% they will have to rely on the Quran alone and not secondary sources like the Ahadith.

The point is Allah do not expect Muslims to be stagnant and be stuck at the present status quo. All Muslim must strive [jihad-Quran Language] progressively higher and higher with greater mind power.

Your thinking is not progressive at all.

Quote:
Also the words of instruction given by the Prophets are to be followed. Although currently the only ones we know to be actual instructions through a Messenger is the Sunnah that can be traced directly to Muhammad(saws)
Accepting instruction by the Prophets is merely a 40% grade Muslim. To achieve a higher grade like 60%-80% a Muslim must be an independent thinker with total reliance from the Quran-only - engage into the higher gears of Islam.

Quote:
The study of Ahadith is best left to the Scholars who have first completed a comprehensive study on the methodologies of how the various compilations came to be.
Ahadith is for the 40% grade Muslim.
If you look at it progressively the Ahadith may be useful but are limited and in some sense very absurd and lead one away from being a progressive Muslim.

Quote:
Before a Muslim even touches a Qur'an he learns the required protocols. such as doing wudu, praying for guidance, having the proper intentions etc.
These are all superficials deeds that do not contribute much for a 40% grade Muslim to progress.
This set of protocols belong to the salat set which are merely preliminaries and are very superficial.
What is critical is the ya'budu set which is all encompassing which covers concepts of aslama, amana, ittagu, tagwa, muklis, ibrar, salat, etc.
Note 51:56, "I [Allah] created humankind to ya'budu ME"

Quote:
What is interesting is most Islamic Terrorists have had very little actual exposure to Islam
Do you have real statistics on this?

As Allah had stated all Muslims come in grade from 1% to 100%.

Let say we do an analysis all Muslims in a distribution Histogram in groups of grades [8:4], say
0-20%,
21>30%
31-40%,
41-50%,
51-60%
61-80%,
81-100%
My assessment is the so-called Islamic Terrorists will have a greater composition in the 41-50 and 51-60 and 61-80% grade Muslims than the average Muslims.
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
My assessment is the so-called Islamic Terrorists will have a greater composition in the 41-50 and 51-60 and 61-80% grade Muslims than the average Muslims.
No way, Continuum.

Terrorists who kill peaceful people (including the Muslim children in Peshawar) reject and disobey several verses of the Qur'an. To regard them more than 50% is ignorance about the Qur'aan. Those who killed 143 peaceful children in that school in Peshawar were definitely less than 50% down to even 0% and will never have salvation according to the words of Allah in the Qur'aan.
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Old 01-07-2017, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
No way, Continuum.

Terrorists who kill peaceful people (including the Muslim children in Peshawar) reject and disobey several verses of the Qur'an. To regard them more than 50% is ignorance about the Qur'aan. Those who killed 143 peaceful children in that school in Peshawar were definitely less than 50% down to even 0% and will never have salvation according to the words of Allah in the Qur'aan.
Reject several verses??
How many out of 6,236 verses?
And what are the weightages of such rejected verses?

We have not gone down to the detail of how to do the assessment.

Note my point here;
http://www.city-data.com/forum/46751068-post4.html
THE MESSAGE of Allah within the Quran is 100% represented by the following;
1. 320,015 letters, [per Ibn Katheer]
2. 77,934 words
3. appx. 18,700 sentences [say 6,236 x average 3]
4. 6,236 verses
5. 114 Chapters
6. 1 Book
The above represent what is 100% Muslim.
To assess what % grade of Muslim, the objective way is to assess a Muslim compliance to all of the above letters, words, sentences, verses and essentially the elements and intended meanings there in.

If there are 1,000 essential elements and a Muslim comply with 400 of it consistently, then we can grade that Muslim [taking into account weightages] as a 40% Muslims.
Obviously this will NOT be exactly the same as Allah's intention, but at least there is something objective that all humans can agree on or at least a basis to discuss and argue on.
Good point is at least there is a model to start with [based on Allah's Message] that can be subjected to continuous criticisms for improvements or replacement.

The acts of those who kill 143 children in Peshawar will have to be deliberated whether they comply with the elements of the Quran. If they are not then they are outside the scope of the assessment. It could be an issue of general evil of human nature.

The objective methodology is to tick the individual views and deeds against each element [in a checklist] in the Quran-Only and compute the numbers to get the estimate and rough %.

Based on the above, my very rough estimation, many of the so-called terrorists and evil prone Muslims will be higher than the so-called moderate Muslims.
For a start many of the so-called moderate Muslims will ignore elements within 2:216, 2:190-194, 22:38 and many others while the so-called evil prone will be include to some shade [degrees] of 2:216, 2:190-194, 22:38 and others.

In general the moderate Muslims will also focus on 50% of the elements within the Quran while the evil prone will likely cover 90% up to 100% of elements in the Quran. As such, it is more likely the so-called terrorists are likely to be higher %Muslims objectively and this can be supported by real evidences.

The above are merely rough estimates based on principles and observation. We need to do detail work on it and I am confident the results will conform to my expectations.

Last edited by Continuum; 01-07-2017 at 09:31 PM..
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