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Old 12-25-2016, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Where in the Quran is it specified that children born to Muslim parents are by default Muslims?

If there are no such verses, then children born to Muslims can only be Muslim when they are old enough to declare and affirm the basic shahada?

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Old 12-25-2016, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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The the following verses [and others] state each soul can only earn on its own account.

6:164. ... Each soul earneth only on its own account, nor doth any laden bear another's load. ..

29:6. And whosoever striveth, striveth [yujahidu] only for himself, for lo! Allah is altogether Independent of (His) creatures. [believers given limited freewill]
Therefore the parents' acts will not contribute to the child's merit as a Muslim.
This meant that the child can only earn merits as a Muslim after affirming the basic Shahada?
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Old 12-26-2016, 01:11 AM
 
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In Sahih Muslim (hadeeth) the Prophet Muhammad (saw) states that every baby is born a Muslim, regardless of what their parents were, including you. It is the world that distracts humans from their purpose of submission.
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Old 12-26-2016, 02:36 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
In Sahih Muslim (hadeeth) the Prophet Muhammad (saw) states that every baby is born a Muslim, regardless of what their parents were, including you. It is the world that distracts humans from their purpose of submission.
I am aware of the point from the Ahadith.
However the OP only refer to Quran only, i.e. Allah's words and not Muhammad's word.

I believe the Ahadith do not has any divine authority at all.
We cannot accept whatever is in the Ahadith if it is not supported by any Quranic verse, i.e. Allah's direct authority.

I am also aware there are a few verses in the Quran that indirectly point to 'All are born Muslims' but they are flimsy in supporting the point directly.

Per OP;
Where in the Quran is it specified [clearly] that children born to Muslim parents are by default Muslims?
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Old 12-26-2016, 02:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I am aware of the point from the Ahadith.
However the OP only refer to Quran only, i.e. Allah's words and not Muhammad's word.

I believe the Ahadith do not has any divine authority at all.
We cannot accept whatever is in the Ahadith if it is not supported by any Quranic verse, i.e. Allah's direct authority.
Only the Quranites take such a position, and they are an extreme, heretical minority.

The Prophet Muhammad (saw) was they embodiment of the Quran, and therefore we follow him through understanding the Quran *and* hadeeth.
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Old 12-26-2016, 03:02 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
Only the Quranites take such a position, and they are an extreme, heretical minority.

The Prophet Muhammad (saw) was they embodiment of the Quran, and therefore we follow him through understanding the Quran *and* hadeeth.
I am a non-Muslim so not a Quranite nor submitter. They may have their own basis and reasons, I have my own thinking in arriving at my position.

What I follow is based on correct philosophical principles and rationality. My forte [intellectual strength] is in philosophy.
Allah is supposed to be all-powerful, all-knowing, omni-whatever, thus it is not rational that God the all-powerful will allow any human-being [very fallible] to meddle with his original revelations.

In addition my claim [from the Islamic perspective] is supported the verses from the Quran, i.e. Allah's only authorized words and nothing else.
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Old 12-26-2016, 03:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I am a non-Muslim so not a Quranite nor submitter. They may have their own basis and reasons, I have my own thinking in arriving at my position.

What I follow is based on correct philosophical principles and rationality. My forte [intellectual strength] is in philosophy.
Allah is supposed to be all-powerful, all-knowing, omni-whatever, thus it is not rational that God the all-powerful will allow any human-being [very fallible] to meddle with his original revelations.

In addition my claim [from the Islamic perspective] is supported the verses from the Quran, i.e. Allah's only authorized words and nothing else.
And Allah (swt) commands us to follow and obey the Prophet Muhammad (saw) in the Quran. We only know how to do this through hadeeth, which was compiled and verified via an identical system as that of the Quran.
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Old 12-26-2016, 09:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Where in the Quran is it specified that children born to Muslim parents are by default Muslims?

If there are no such verses, then children born to Muslims can only be Muslim when they are old enough to declare and affirm the basic shahada?

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One does not have to say Shahada as long as one submits to Allah's Command "Kun" ("Be" ="come into existence"). A baby is born with Allah's Command. A baby comes into existence believing and submitting. It is only later on that his/her personality becomes a product of his/her experience; to serve the purpose of his/her creation or decide to go to hell.
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Old 12-26-2016, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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The OP seems to be going by the premise that the Qur'an is a Text book that explains how to be a Muslim.

The Qur'an is not a new revelation. There is nothing in it that was not given to the Past Prophets(pbut). It was sent because people stopped obeying Allaah(swt)'s command that we are to worship only Him. It is also a book of examples of the Rewards given to those who worship only Allaah(swt) and the punishments for those who deliberately oppose Him. All who followed the Scriptures as originally revealed in the past performed Islam meaning the "People of the Book" (Jews, Sabeeans and Christians) were Muslim.

To learn what constitutes a Muslim and how to perform Islam one must refer to the Ahadith and Sunnah. As Khalif already said:

Quote:
One does not have to say Shahada as long as one submits to Allah's Command "Kun" ("Be" ="come into existence"). A baby is born with Allah's Command. A baby comes into existence believing and submitting. It is only later on that his/her personality becomes a product of his/her experience; to serve the purpose of his/her creation or decide to go to hell.
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Old 12-26-2016, 09:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The OP seems to be going by the premise that the Qur'an is a Text book that explains how to be a Muslim.

The Qur'an is not a new revelation. There is nothing in it that was not given to the Past Prophets(pbut). It was sent because people stopped obeying Allaah(swt)'s command that we are to worship only Him. It is also a book of examples of the Rewards given to those who worship only Allaah(swt) and the punishments for those who deliberately oppose Him. All who followed the Scriptures as originally revealed in the past performed Islam meaning the "People of the Book" (Jews, Sabeeans and Christians) were Muslim.

To learn what constitutes a Muslim and how to perform Islam one must refer to the Ahadith and Sunnah. As Khalif already said:
It is a Muslim who believes in Mohammed
It does not believe in Muhammad is not a Muslim
Your words does not make sense
Because I do not I could follow the man specifications Mohammed
I reject the word Muslim
Your words lacks proof
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