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Old 01-01-2017, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
In other words, it is only an opinion. The philosophy of Islam is, repel evil with good. If that does not work in the first instance, give it taste of its own medicine and let it destroy itself.
The resultant of philosophy is what is true and right with wisdom.

If it is an opinion, there must be explanations and justification on why it is an opinion.
If I had a hunch it will rain tomorrow, that is an opinion because it is based on faith and no supporting evidence but merely my subjective feelings of the outcome. [zero objectivity]

If I listen to the news and reliable weather report and trust it, then that is a belief [of a certain degree]. The justification is based on past experiences that the weather reports is 90% correct and we know the weather man rely on Scientific method. [reasonable objectivity]

If I am the weatherman or meteorologist who have done the analysis based on satellites data and evidences then that will knowledge [to a degree]. [high objectivity]

Philosophy do not provide the answers but it explain the basis, justifications and whatever is necessary plus raise questions to give the relevant confidence to whatever the answer.

The Philosophy of Islam is thus to understand the full perspective of what Islam is all about, i.e. to break down Islam into parts and analyze its constituents in every possible perspective. This is how we will understand why Islam in part is good while in other parts it contain evil elements [loaded guns] when exposed to evil prone Muslims.

Many refer to the Philosophy of Islam [or any other religion] as finding what are the wisdom from the religion. That is not philosophy-proper.
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:16 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The resultant of philosophy is what is true and right with wisdom.

If it is an opinion, there must be explanations and justification on why it is an opinion.
If I had a hunch it will rain tomorrow, that is an opinion because it is based on faith and no supporting evidence but merely my subjective feelings of the outcome. [zero objectivity]

If I listen to the news and reliable weather report and trust it, then that is a belief [of a certain degree]. The justification is based on past experiences that the weather reports is 90% correct and we know the weather man rely on Scientific method. [reasonable objectivity]

If I am the weatherman or meteorologist who have done the analysis based on satellites data and evidences then that will knowledge [to a degree]. [high objectivity]

Philosophy do not provide the answers but it explain the basis, justifications and whatever is necessary plus raise questions to give the relevant confidence to whatever the answer.

The Philosophy of Islam is thus to understand the full perspective of what Islam is all about, i.e. to break down Islam into parts and analyze its constituents in every possible perspective. This is how we will understand why Islam in part is good while in other parts it contain evil elements [loaded guns] when exposed to evil prone Muslims.

Many refer to the Philosophy of Islam [or any other religion] as finding what are the wisdom from the religion. That is not philosophy-proper.
[31.2] These are verses of the Book of Wisdom.

[40.54] A guidance and a reminder to the men of understanding.

[12.111] In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a narrative which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe.

[2.269] He grants wisdom to whom He pleases, and whoever is granted wisdom, he indeed is given a great good and none but men of understanding mind.

[17.44] The seven heavens declare His glory and the earth (too), and those who are in them; and there is not a single thing but glorifies Him with His praise, but you do not understand their glorification; surely He is Forbearing, Forgiving.

[21:67] "Fie upon you, and upon that which you worship (taʿbudūna) besides Allah! Have you then no sense?"

[5.58] And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand.

[91.7] And the soul (nafs) and Him Who proportioned it

[91.8] Then He inspired it to understand what is right and wrong for it

[91.9] He will indeed be successful who purifies it

[91.10] And he will indeed fail who corrupts it.
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,591,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
[31.2] These are verses of the Book of Wisdom.

[40.54] A guidance and a reminder to the men of understanding.

[12.111] In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a narrative which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe.

[2.269] He grants wisdom to whom He pleases, and whoever is granted wisdom, he indeed is given a great good and none but men of understanding mind.

[17.44] The seven heavens declare His glory and the earth (too), and those who are in them; and there is not a single thing but glorifies Him with His praise, but you do not understand their glorification; surely He is Forbearing, Forgiving.

[21:67] "Fie upon you, and upon that which you worship (taʿbudūna) besides Allah! Have you then no sense?"

[5.58] And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand.

[91.7] And the soul (nafs) and Him Who proportioned it

[91.8] Then He inspired it to understand what is right and wrong for it

[91.9] He will indeed be successful who purifies it

[91.10] And he will indeed fail who corrupts it.
The term 'wisdom' is not the referent 'wisdom'.

One must be able to produce[list] those of wisdom if any.
For any book of wisdom, it has to be 100% wisdom without any stain of evils.

There is also the difference between a book containing words of wisdom and book that teaches one how to cultivate wisdom within.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:48 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The term 'wisdom' is not the referent 'wisdom'.

One must be able to produce[list] those of wisdom if any.
For any book of wisdom, it has to be 100% wisdom without any stain of evils.

There is also the difference between a book containing words of wisdom and book that teaches one how to cultivate wisdom within.
That's how the Qur'aan teaches how to cultivate wisdom using the knowledge, self, understanding, sense, and by pondering over the ayat of the Qur'aan. It will teach you (not literally of course) the difference between good and evil, between life of this world and life of the Hereafter, between life and Self, between jihad and fasad, between rights of others and your rights in relation to each others, purpose of human existence on earth, how to live this life in peace, this list can carry on. This is without mentioning the word Khalifah or ya.budu.
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Old 01-03-2017, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,591,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That's how the Qur'aan teaches how to cultivate wisdom using the knowledge, self, understanding, sense, and by pondering over the ayat of the Qur'aan. It will teach you (not literally of course) the difference between good and evil, between life of this world and life of the Hereafter, between life and Self, between jihad and fasad, between rights of others and your rights in relation to each others, purpose of human existence on earth, how to live this life in peace, this list can carry on. This is without mentioning the word Khalifah or ya'budu.
Note wisdom comes in degrees from kindergarten to PhD levels. What you have introduced are merely those from kindergarten levels.

To progress gradually from kindergarten to Phd one has to engage the more efficient 'ya'budu' gears.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:42 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note wisdom comes in degrees from kindergarten to PhD levels. What you have introduced are merely those from kindergarten levels.

To progress gradually from kindergarten to Phd one has to engage the more efficient 'ya'budu' gears.
Actually it is to rise above mere ya'budu and be Khalifah of Allah, in His image.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,591,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Actually it is to rise above mere ya'budu and be Khalifah of Allah, in His image.
You missed the point.

Wisdom [noun] is the practical knowledge towards optimality.
Ya'budu [verb] is the effort [in right state of mind] to cultivate such wisdom.

Analogy:
There is knowledge [noun] from kindergarten to PhD level.
To get from kindergarten to PhD level, one must put in [verb] the right effort.

So it is not that wisdom rise above ya'budu.
The point is one must ya'budu [verb] with the right state [& intensity] of mind and effort to progress from kindergarten knowledge to PhD level of knowledge.
In this case, ya'budu is all encompassing and cover a wider process than salat.
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:03 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You missed the point.

Wisdom [noun] is the practical knowledge towards optimality.
Ya'budu [verb] is the effort [in right state of mind] to cultivate such wisdom.

Analogy:
There is knowledge [noun] from kindergarten to PhD level.
To get from kindergarten to PhD level, one must put in [verb] the right effort.

So it is not that wisdom rise above ya'budu.
The point is one must ya'budu [verb] with the right state [& intensity] of mind and effort to progress from kindergarten knowledge to PhD level of knowledge.
In this case, ya'budu is all encompassing and cover a wider process than salat.
To reach the Khalifah level for which human was created, humans have to do everything their Creator has commanded them to do through His Will, plus do more through their own will. Ya'budu in the verse 51:56 is meant to be so narrow that it can be done to idols (other gods) too. As idols do not command anything, it is obviously very narrow and nothing like ya'budu Allah in full.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,591,365 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
To reach the Khalifah level for which human was created, humans have to do everything their Creator has commanded them to do through His Will, plus do more through their own will. Ya'budu in the verse 51:56 is meant to be so narrow that it can be done to idols (other gods) too. As idols do not command anything, it is obviously very narrow and nothing like ya'budu Allah in full.
What are you talking about.

Allah created ALL Things.
All things are supposed to ya'budu Allah.
If 'ya'budu' can be done to idols and all things, then it is wide.

If Khalifah is confined only to humans, then it is a narrow concept.
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Old 01-08-2017, 02:26 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What are you talking about.

Allah created ALL Things.
All things are supposed to ya'budu Allah.
If 'ya'budu' can be done to idols and all things, then it is wide.
This is where your ignorance about ya'budu is exposed. The worship to idols is very narrow but still worship one must not do except to Allah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If Khalifah is confined only to humans, then it is a narrow concept.
I knew you haven't understood the concept of Allah's Khalifah on earth. Perhaps your mind is always geared with weightage; worship of one man is of less weightage than of two donkeys. LOL!
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