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Old 01-08-2017, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
This is where your ignorance about ya'budu is exposed. The worship to idols is very narrow but still worship one must not do except to Allah.

I knew you haven't understood the concept of Allah's Khalifah on earth. Perhaps your mind is always geared with weightage; worship of one man is of less weightage than of two donkeys. LOL!
If I happen to be ignorance [I am not] of ya'budu, there is nothing at stake for me because I am not a Muslim.

But If you [as a Muslim] failed to understand what is 'ya'budu' when 51:56 state;
I [ALLAH] created humankind only that they ya'budu Me'
then you have something as stake, i.e. compromising your Muslim-ness.
Analogy:
Note the following;
1. A Muslim must love Allah.
2. A Muslim must love his Muslim spouse.
3. A Muslim must love his Muslim children.
4. A Muslim must respect the World

A person can do any of the above independently.
But the important effect is, when a A Muslim love Allah, s/he will automatically follow with loving the spouse and children, respect the world because loving Allah mean complying with the Quran which include loving one spouse and children and respecting the world.

From the above, it is obvious loving Allah is all encompassing thus more critical than 2, 3, or 4 initiated independently.

Love is a general emotion. A person can love anything, i.e. idols, animals, satan, etc. But loving Allah is the most powerful and all encompasing.

The above can be applied to ya'budu Allah.
Ya'budu Allah is more than loving Allah and it is all encompassing which cover submit, believe, love Allah, and others.
Ya'budu is more than what is expected of a Khalifahtan.

A person can also ya'budu anything, idols, deities, satan, friends, spouse, but 51:56 is specific to Allah alone.

Therefore you are very narrow minded to think, just because a person can 'ya'budu' anything, even Satan, therefore ya'budu Allah is not very important. Point is when one ya'budu Allah, it has to be ya'budu Allah alone otherwise it is a great sin.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:16 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If I happen to be ignorance [I am not] of ya'budu, there is nothing at stake for me because I am not a Muslim.

But If you [as a Muslim] failed to understand what is 'ya'budu' when 51:56 state;
I [ALLAH] created humankind only that they ya'budu Me'
then you have something as stake, i.e. compromising your Muslim-ness.
I will stop you there. There is no need to read the rest.

51:56 does not state:

"I [ALLAH] created humankind only that they ya'budu Me".

51:56 states:

"I did not create the jinn and humans except they worship ME".

This is exactly the same as:

"I did not create the jinn and humans to worship except ME".

It does not mean that the jinn and humans were created for the only purpose that they keep worshiping me and do nothing else. Had this been the only purpose, Allah would have included angels with jinn and humans in this verse.
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I will stop you there. There is no need to read the rest.

51:56 does not state:

"I [ALLAH] created humankind only that they ya'budu Me".

51:56 states:

"I did not create the jinn and humans except they worship ME".

This is exactly the same as:

"I did not create the jinn and humans to worship except ME".

It does not mean that the jinn and humans were created for the only purpose that they keep worshiping me and do nothing else. Had this been the only purpose, Allah would have included angels with jinn and humans in this verse.
My intention was not to go into precision with 51:56.

To be precise, per Quran 51:56
Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liyaAAbudooni
And not I have created the jinn and the mankind except that they worship Me.

is the same as
And [] I have created the jinn and the mankind [only] that they worship Me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
51:56 states:
"I did not create the jinn and humans except they worship ME".

This is exactly the same as:

"I did not create the jinn and humans to worship except ME".
Your 51:56 per Quran is wrong.
Your alternative version is contorted by taking out "that they" and shifting the term "except".
The end result of your contorted statement actually convey the opposite meaning.
This is a deliberate attempt to corrupt the verse just like Allah was condemning the Jews and others who changed the meaning of the texts.

What I did was merely following the acceptable rule of Grammar in the treatment of "ma" with "illa."

Last edited by Continuum; 01-09-2017 at 09:52 PM..
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:14 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
My intention was not to go into precision with 51:56.

To be precise, per Quran 51:56
Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liyaAAbudooni
And not I have created the jinn and the mankind except that they worship Me.

is the same as
And [] I have created the jinn and the mankind [only] that they worship Me.
It is not the same. "Not created" and "created" cannot be the same. Also, by adding [only] before "they worship Me" gives the purpose of "created" to be ONLY "they worship Me" and do nothing else.

Therefore, your even [only] is used in the wrong place. This makes your understanding of the verse false. There isn't even one other verse in the Qur'aan that says that the purpose of creating humans was ONLY that they worship Me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your 51:56 per Quran is wrong.
Your alternative version is contorted by taking out "that they" and shifting the term "except".
The end result of your contorted statement actually convey the opposite meaning.
This is a deliberate attempt to corrupt the verse just like Allah was condemning the Jews and others who changed the meaning of the texts.

What I did was merely following the acceptable rule of Grammar in the treatment of "ma" with "illa."
Arabic grammar is not the same as the English grammar. You are mistaken if you think it is the same. The verse is not telling you what the humans were created for but what they were not created for. This is the point of the verse that you are unable to understand.
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