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Old 01-04-2017, 05:19 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your views above are based on kindergarten shallow and narrow thinking.
First you are not acknowledging reality which comprised of Muslims and non-Muslims, and the reality of different languages amongst these people.
You are not talking here about the Qur'aan and "jihad" in the Qur'aan but jihad as used outside and differently from the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If the conditions is English or Arabic, it is correct to link "jihad" with "Muslims" and "Quran" and this is even legal in an English court if the terms are accepted within the English laws. There is no obligation to link the above to verses in the Quran if it is in the people's [human] court.
In that case, it has nothing to do with the Qur'aan and Islam. Such jihad is not Islamic but non Islamic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
But if one is in Allah's court on Judgment Day, then the verses and terms in the Quran will be valid, but even then what prevails is the deeds done, not the terms used.
If the deed done is not according to "jihad" in the Qur'aan then it is not Islamic deed but secular deed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
When a jihadists face Allah on judgement day, what is critical are the deeds that are recorded in the book i.e. sijjirin or illiyin by the angels. Allah will not bother too much about the terms.
It will be a bad deed if done against the guidance in the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If a English speaking jihadist believe 'jihad = war on infidels" and kill infidels in the defense of Islam with justifications, Allah will acknowledge the deeds as righteous because there are other verses that justify the killing of infidels if they commit wrongdoings. Allah can easily pardon the wrong use of vocabulary.
Stop acting on Allah's behalf!
You haven't a clue how Allah will decide on that Day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are ignorant of the subject of lexicography;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography
You have a lot to learn to catch up with the real world.
What is added into a dictionary is not about truth but merely based on common and popular usage.
That's why you are relying on dictionaries here rather than the Qur'aan and the sense the term "jihad" is used in the Qur'aan. You are not interested in the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note that irrational, bastardized and very stupid word 'Islamophobia' in the English dictionary. Based on evidence people are fearful of Islam [partly], therefore the fear of Islam is not irrational, i.e. a phobia.
Islamophobia is irrational fear of Islam as a result of lies about Islam particularly about use of the word "jihad" which is never used according to the Qur'aan but falsely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note I have not used the term "jihad" seriously to support my hypothesis in the English, Arabic of Quranic perspective often in that context. My hypothesis rely on that tsunami of evil laden verses not on jihad.
You have left no doubt that you have linked "jihad" to the other verses of the Qur'aan because you perceive them to be evil thus "jihad" is evil. Yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Literally and linguistically, 'jihad = holy war and the likes' is not wrong in any language if they are in their respective dictionaries.
Jihad is always in defense. It is never an attack on peaceful people. Any attack on peaceful people is not allowed in the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note your ignorance of what is lexicography.

It is linked with the wrong verses with the arabic word جهاد in the Quran, but correct with other evil laden verses in the Quran.
This is merely a problem of mismatch of terms but not in essence of the Quranic evil laden verses.
That's how you rely on other verses than those that talk about "jihad" to justify wrong meanings of "jihad". You do this not to find the truth but to justify actions of so-called Jihadists to be Islamic.

Jihadists misuse the term on purpose to recruit the ignorant ones. As a result other ignorant ones of the term have been duped to believe the term is true as the Jihadists say and do. So they spend days, as you are doing here, to justify their false understanding of the term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The whole world of good people is not agreeing with the terrorists. Btw, it is not only terrorists but there are millions of evil prone Muslims committing all sort of evils and violence [non-terror] on non-Muslims.
See what I mean!
You have to look somewhere else to justify terrorists are Jihadists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What is critical here is there are real evidences of evils and violence [of all kinds] committed by SOME Muslims who made reference to the Quran.
Most of them make reference to politics and hadith books. The odd reference to the Qur'aan would be out of context. They do that to recruit more. As long as you agree with them, you are part of the problem rather solution to the problem. You have already told us here that you do not blame them for their evil actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What is most important to find the ultimate root causes to this terrible world wide problems [all problems not just those by terrorists].
Evil potential of humans. As long as they have freewill, you can do nothing to eradicate evil actions of humans. You can't blame the root cause but educate people not to use their freewill for evil actions.

If a Muslim woman wearing hijab is walking down a street and two non-Muslim men go to her and try to take the hijab off and then they drag her on the ground by her hijab (head covering), what is the root cause of this evil action of the two non-Muslims, the Qur'aan, Islam, Islamophobia or the lack of education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If you do not search for the root causes which is in the Quran and human nature, the problem will persist eternally and human will forever fire-fighting the problem.
It is in the human nature but not in the Qur'aan. The Qur'aan has helped teach the majority Muslims to be peaceful. That is an overwhelming evidence that the teachings of the Qur'aan are peaceful. Any opposition to fasad (as in war and in everyday life) is not evil but to create peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note one example of my logic and rationale;
The way of Allah is to ensure Islam conquer all religions.
There are many verses that emphasize on the hindering of Allah's way.
The hindering of Allah's way is a wrongdoing.
Allah permit hostilities on infidels if they commit wrongdoings. 2:193.
[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
If they desist fighting and persecuting because your religion is for Allah then there should be no hostility (as an offensive fighting). Fighting here is only in defense when Muslims were persecuted because their religion was for Allah rather than 360 gods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The above is the justification of fighting and killing of infidels to defend Islam against wrongdoings.
Take another look, what is wrongdoing, persecution and hostility against Muslims and Islam in this verse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The above is just one example, there are many other reasons and examples.
The above is only one example of your jihad (English style) against the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Again your knowledge of reality is narrow and shallow.
And your knowledge of the Qur'aan is very shallow and narrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Take look at the above picture.
There are people who can only see either a rabbit or a duck.
Such a picture is vague in a sense.
Are you saying they do not understand what is a rabbit or a duck they really seeing?
The person who only see a duck, understand what is duck that quacks.
Therefore the person who see only a duck is not wrong at all because that is the truth s/he seeing.
You keep parroting the same thing. It's like asking what came first chicken or egg.

Here, we are not talking about, rabbit, duck, chicken or egg but the Qur'aan and "jihad" according to the Qur'aan; not how you see it or a secular guy formulating a dictionary sees it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The above is the same for some Quranic verses which are vague in a sense where there can be two truths which both are acceptable by Allah on Day of Judgment.
These may be perceived so in your mind but Allah knows the truth. I do not see these verses as "vague" but crystal clear. There is only one truth about "jihad", it is always in defense. Even fighting is only in defense. If infidels do not fight us,we do not fight them is crystal clear rule in the Qur'aan. You will have to counter that if you are to prove yourself correct against the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is not that I believe them. Yes, their actions are Islamic based on various verses in the Quran.
Don't just say so but show us by quoting the "various verses" in the Qur'aan. Let's see here if you are understanding and applying them correctly according to the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What is critical is they believe it is Allah's words and based on my interpretation of the Quran Allah will agree with the deeds in this case regards of the terms used.
In that case, your interpretation is just as faulty as their interpretation. Therefore, you are just a problem as they are a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If an English speaking jihadi believe 'jihad = holy war" and turn that into actions, i.e. kill Americans because they commit wrongdoings against Islam, according to the Quran, Allah will reward them in Paradise.
Now 'who are you' to judge on behalf of Allah.
Who are you and the jihadi (English style) to decide on Allah's behalf? According to the Qur'aan, peaceful people (Americans and the rest) cannot be attacked. If you agree with the terrorists you agree with their actions. As a result, you are just a problem as they are problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note when a person interpret 'jihad = holy war' they are not relying on merely those 4 verses and other related verses. What they are relying is the hundreds of verses that are related to warfare from the Quran.
So are you, now (in ignorance). It's like looking for a straw to hang on to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
In the Quran, jihad = 4 verses.
But to the jihadists, jihad = holy war = 3,400++ verses from the Quran.
note this critical point in bold.
Making it bold won't make it true. You have to back up your claim by quoting those verses to prove that these are about "jihad".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
How can they be wrong when to them 'jihad' = holy war = 3,400++ verses from the Quran that is related to warfare on hated infidels.
They are wrong, according to the Qur'aan, if they attack peaceful infidels.

In any argument in which you blame the Qur'aan for any fighting against the infidels, you will have to show that those infidels were peaceful and the fighting against them was offensive and not defensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Point is I can prove those acts are supported by verses from the Quran.
Not a hope in the world. The book is from Allah and He has left enough proof to counter arguments against the Qur'aan from people to come like yourself. Other people have tried their best and failed. You are welcome to be part of the statistics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Prove to me you have a divine right to judge on behalf of Allah.
I never claimed so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Say you are counsellor to a Muslim jihadist [e.g. Abu Rumaysah] who is bent of doing 'jihad' [English Language]
You may insist, Don't do it!
But the jihadists insist on doing it [commit terror] because Allah in the Quran give permission for him to do it.
What can you do?
Allah will give you power to stop him?
Who the hell is Abu Rumaysah; some kind of your imagined verse in the Qur'aan?

If terrorists, who kill peaceful people, are not complying with the verses of the Qur'aan then they are not complying with "jihad" in the Qur'aan. You are agreeing with the Jihadists (English type). Who is the problem, you or I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note we are not talking of one, but millions of evil prone Muslims committing all sort of evils and violence of various degrees.
The billion who do not do so is because of the Qur'aan forbidding them to do evil. You can't see them and the Qur'aan in that light because you have blinkers on. You can't see the full picture in front of you because of the blinkers.

Blinkers are put on race horses so that they see only a narrow path on which they are supposed to run.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:02 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
.
We have provided you plenty of evidence confirms that the Jihad in Islam is Offensive
But you violate this
It is kindly sent an invitation to the cancellation of Jihad
The rest of the terrorist Jihad
I think that the twisting and turning style incapacitated
Jihad for the sake of God
Jihad is Offensive
To spread Islam and fight the unbelievers
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:08 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
We have provided you plenty of evidence confirms that the Jihad in Islam is Offensive
But you violate this
It is kindly sent an invitation to the cancellation of Jihad
The rest of the terrorist Jihad
I think that the twisting and turning style incapacitated
Jihad for the sake of God
Jihad is Offensive
To spread Islam and fight the unbelievers
Two types of jihad
Type I: Jihad request Beginning

You can ask the infidels in their own homes and invite them to Islam and to fight them if they do not submit to the rule of Islam.
His rule: the rule of the kind imposed on the total Muslims.
Almighty Allah's saying: (When the sacred months then kill the idolaters wherever ye find and take them and count them and sit you for them all repent, and establish regular prayers and Zakat Ouatwa then leave their way, God is Forgiving, Merciful) repentance / 5.
And he says: (And fight the polytheists all as fight against you all and know that Allah is with those) repentance / 36.
And says: (rush lights and heavies and strive with your wealth and yourselves in the way of Allah is better for you if you know) repentance / 41 .. This is to
----------------------
This type of jihad is Offensive
Did you know most of the Muslim Scholars
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Who the hell is Abu Rumaysah; some kind of your imagined verse in the Qur'aan?
I thought Abu Rumaysah is a very famous jihadist in UK.
Siddhartha Dhar, also known as Abu Rumaysah, is thought to be the new man behind the mask fronting threats to the UK from inside Syria.
Unlike the man he appears to have replaced - Briton Mohammed Emwazi, dubbed "Jihadi John" - Mr Rumaysah was a well-known and prolific figure among radical Islamists in London.
Who is Siddhartha Dhar? - BBC News



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Old 01-05-2017, 11:19 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I thought Abu Rumaysah is a very famous jihadist in UK.
Siddhartha Dhar, also known as Abu Rumaysah, is thought to be the new man behind the mask fronting threats to the UK from inside Syria.
Unlike the man he appears to have replaced - Briton Mohammed Emwazi, dubbed "Jihadi John" - Mr Rumaysah was a well-known and prolific figure among radical Islamists in London.
Who is Siddhartha Dhar? - BBC News
Is this the image of LondonI think the British will reap what planted
When they allowed to spread evil in their country
O Lord, help them to get rid of the evil؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Who are you and the jihadi (English style) to decide on Allah's behalf? According to the Qur'aan, peaceful people (Americans and the rest) cannot be attacked. If you agree with the terrorists you agree with their actions. As a result, you are just a problem as they are problem.

If terrorists, who kill peaceful people, are not complying with the verses of the Qur'aan then they are not complying with "jihad" in the Qur'aan. You are agreeing with the Jihadists (English type). Who is the problem, you or I?
Yes, me, you and the jihadi (English style) cannot decide on Allah's behalf?

But the fact is this two main variables exists regardless of what any one thinks and interpret;

1. 20% of all humans [so 20% of Muslims] has an active evil tendencies.
2. There are 3,400++ evil laden elements of various degrees in the Quran.

To you "According to the Qur'aan, peaceful people (Americans and the rest) cannot be attacked."
That is only your opinion which has no effect and cannot change the facts and reality of 1 & 2 above.
You can keep complaining, but the reality will not change.
As long as 1 and 2 above exists, the evil prone Muslims will continue to commit terrible evils and violence.
This is not a speculation because the evils and violence are real.
These evil prone Muslims really commit evils and violence based on verses from the Quran.

Point is you have not done anything to address the two root causes above.
Instead you want to be an ostrich and insist there is no such thing.

On the other hand I am taking action at least to some degree.
I understand variable one cannot change easily because it is within the DNA of humanity.
The only effective action I can take is to highlight the root cause of how the 3,400 evil laden elements in the Quran contribute to catalyze the evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.

Quote:
If you agree with the terrorists you agree with their actions. As a result, you are just a problem as they are problem.
I did not agree with the terrorists and the evil prone Muslims at all.
I am instead highlighting the root causes of why they are committing terrible evils and violence.

What happen to your thinking?
Revealing the root cause of evils and problems is not agreeing with the actors of the actions.

You are the problem because you refuse to analyze nor acknowledge the ultimate root causes of the problem, i.e. 1 and 2 as highlighted above.

I can suggest an immediate solution to get rid of all Islamic-based evils and violence. The solution is to get rid of the 3,400++ evil elements from the Quran. This is theoretical and cannot be easily done at present due to the immature spiritual minds of the majority of Muslims.
However that ultimate root cause must be highlighted to all Muslims and all others to bring it to their attention and to think of an effective solution.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum
Say you are counsellor to a Muslim jihadist [e.g. Abu Rumaysah] who is bent of doing 'jihad' [English Language]
You may insist, Don't do it!
But the jihadists insist on doing it [commit terror] because Allah in the Quran give permission for him to do it.
What can you do?
Allah will give you power to stop him?
So you should know who is Abu Rumaysah by now.

Let me issue you this challenge.

Since you are in UK I challenge you to convert Anjem Choudary [see image below] to your Muslim view.
The challenge is you visit Anjem Choudary in prison and preach to him your moderate Muslim view.
If you can confirm he has given up his existing views to your view, I will fly to the UK and prostrate to you 5000 times with respect. No penalty if you failed
Accept?

Note it has to be based on your specific methods of counselling, not because he changed after an accident, like knocked his head on a chair, etc.

I am very confident you will fail, because based on what I have read and heard his views, he is really a hardcore jihadist.

Point is no matter what is to be done, jihadists and evil prone Muslims will naturally exists to be catalyzed by the immutable evil laden verses in the Quran, and evil and violence will manifest eternally, unless something efficient is done about it.

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Old 01-06-2017, 03:18 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I thought Abu Rumaysah is a very famous jihadist in UK.
Siddhartha Dhar, also known as Abu Rumaysah, is thought to be the new man behind the mask fronting threats to the UK from inside Syria.
Unlike the man he appears to have replaced - Briton Mohammed Emwazi, dubbed "Jihadi John" - Mr Rumaysah was a well-known and prolific figure among radical Islamists in London.
Who is Siddhartha Dhar? - BBC News
Any jihadist in the news is thought to be very famous jihadist in the media. That is always so otherwise nobody would be interested in non-famous jihadists.

The fact that his name Abu Rumaysah sounded Hindu name to me, becomes clear to me now because of recent BBC News that his other name was also a Hindu name Siddhartha Dhar.

It is very rare that a Hindu man would convert to Islam. Hindus have idols in their temples and are unlikely to convert for the right reasons. I have no idea why he could have converted to Islam.

Other than the news articles or his own community, he was not known in wider Britain.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:20 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I did not agree with the terrorists and the evil prone Muslims at all.
You do agree with them that their actions are Islamic and the actions of peaceful Muslims are not Islamic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I am instead highlighting the root causes of why they are committing terrible evils and violence.
You are doing nothing of the sort. All you are doing is qualifying their actions with the Qur'aan in ignorance about the Qur'aan. In other words, they are just as ignorant about the Qur'aan as you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What happen to your thinking?
Revealing the root cause of evils and problems is not agreeing with the actors of the actions.
So far, all you have revealed is your ignorance about the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are the problem because you refuse to analyze nor acknowledge the ultimate root causes of the problem, i.e. 1 and 2 as highlighted above.
You are the problem because you qualify their actions with the verses of the Qur'an in ignorance about the Qur'aan. From this, the terrorists take great comfort that at least one infidel thinks that their actions are Islamic even if the peaceful Muslims do not think so. Therefore, you are the biggest problem because you do not let us say that these terrorists are not complying with the Qur'aan. You simply do not understand the damage you are doing to humanity by not blaming the criminals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I can suggest an immediate solution to get rid of all Islamic-based evils and violence.
Another comment in ignorance! Evil is not Islamic but unislamic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The solution is to get rid of the 3,400++ evil elements from the Quran. This is theoretical and cannot be easily done at present due to the immature spiritual minds of the majority of Muslims.
This is definitely immature minded suggestion. It is full of ignorance about the Qur'aan. It proves my point that you think jihadist (English style) are the only mature minded Muslims and the rest of peaceful Muslims are not mature minded. It is very stupid to suggest that the vast majority of Muslims that is peaceful should be like jihadists to become mature minded.

You would not have made such stupid suggestion if you had understood the Qur'aan properly. Instead of blaming the criminals, you are blaming the peaceful Muslims. No wonder the jihadists are laughing their heads off at your ignorance about the Qur'aan. They would love to see more like you blaming us rather than them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
However that ultimate root cause must be highlighted to all Muslims and all others to bring it to their attention and to think of an effective solution.
There is only one solution:

Get rid of ignorance about the Qur'aan from the minds of jihadists and people like you. That way the jihadists will learn not to kill peaceful people and you will learn not to blame the peaceful Muslims..
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Old 01-06-2017, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
So you should know who is Abu Rumaysah by now.

Let me issue you this challenge.

Since you are in UK I challenge you to convert Anjem Choudary [see image below] to your Muslim view.
The challenge is you visit Anjem Choudary in prison and preach to him your moderate Muslim view.
If you can confirm he has given up his existing views to your view, I will fly to the UK and prostrate to you 5000 times with respect. No penalty if you failed
Accept?

Note it has to be based on your specific methods of counselling, not because he changed after an accident, like knocked his head on a chair, etc.

I am very confident you will fail, because based on what I have read and heard his views, he is really a hardcore jihadist.

Point is no matter what is to be done, jihadists and evil prone Muslims will naturally exists to be catalyzed by the immutable evil laden verses in the Quran, and evil and violence will manifest eternally, unless something efficient is done about it.
Here are 2 views Muslims seem to have about Anjem Choudary


The American Muslim (TAM)

Why Anjem Choudary should not have been sent to prison

With that said no person has the ability to change/convert Anjem Choudary or anyone else. That has to come from within. The most powerful shaytan we each have to defeat, is our self. We have the responsibility to always evaluate our proposed actions and through questioning and analyzing learn if our proposed actions are good or evil. No human can justify their evil actions by saying they misunderstood or were misled. We all will be judged by the choices we make. We had best be certain that we have evaluated our choices through all available sources.
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