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Old 01-07-2017, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
This comment proves how you perceive "evil elements" and "evil potential" without watching in full, and reading something only in part.

Not even one word about how the Meccan idol worshipers had started persecuting and killing the new Muslims!

Why is it that everything said and done by Muslims is due to bias but not everything said and done by the infidels about Islam not due to bias against Islam?
My view is not without basis.
Note I have read many articles on this matter and know the story will be bias.
My counter argument to this is to ask the question 'who started the tit-for-tat.
From what I have read of the reviews, there is nothing new and I will not waste 3 hours unless you can show me this film is based on exceptional research and without bias.
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:21 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
My view is not without basis.
Note I have read many articles on this matter and know the story will be bias.
My counter argument to this is to ask the question 'who started the tit-for-tat.
From what I have read of the reviews, there is nothing new and I will not waste 3 hours unless you can show me this film is based on exceptional research and without bias.
Muhammad and Muslims with him had not started killing idol worshipers nor had expelled anyone from their homes but the idol worshipers did.

The film shows who did this first. If you do not want to watch this film, your research is incomplete and lopsided.
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:51 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,470 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Muhammad and Muslims with him had not started killing idol worshipers nor had expelled anyone from their homes but the idol worshipers did.

The film shows who did this first. If you do not want to watch this film, your research is incomplete and lopsided.
We us the Koran and books of Muslims and is more important than that film commercial

It must have had an important scene in the film which is how you know Muhammad Ali Zainab girl colt Zaid wife
How we got the special verse in the marriage of Mohammed Zainab
But the fight scenes
Was the director that a representative scene displays in the slaughter of the Jews
That is why I consider the film a commercial and impartial and does not say the truth
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Muhammad and Muslims with him had not started killing idol worshipers nor had expelled anyone from their homes but the idol worshipers did.

The film shows who did this first. If you do not want to watch this film, your research is incomplete and lopsided.
I told you I have read many articles and different versions of Muhammad's life.

I have read the review and got an idea of the message of the film.
To be fair, you should also read other views.

How about this book;
Understanding Muhammad;
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/library/...uhammad4th.pdf

The early tit-for-tat issues that started the antagonism between Muhammad and the Meccan Qureshi are in the following chapter 1.
The Central Point is, if Muhammad had not experienced the Mystic Experiences and be so aggressive with his preaching, rob caravans, there would no serious fightings between Muhammad and the Qureshi.
So Muhammad is the ultimate root cause of the evils that follow to the present day.

Chapter 1
The Birth and Childhood of Muhammad
Marriage to Khadijah
Mystic Experience
The Myth of Persecution
Immigration to Medina
Divide and Rule
Promise of Heavenly Rewards
Incite to Violence
Raids
Rape
Torture
Assassination
Genocide
Invasion of Banu Qainuqa’
Invasion of Banu Nadir
Invasion of Banu Quraiza
Taqiyyah: the Holy Deception
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:39 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,470 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I told you I have read many articles and different versions of Muhammad's life.

I have read the review and got an idea of the message of the film.
To be fair, you should also read other views.

How about this book;
Understanding Muhammad;
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/library/...uhammad4th.pdf

The early tit-for-tat issues that started the antagonism between Muhammad and the Meccan Qureshi are in the following chapter 1.
The Central Point is, if Muhammad had not experienced the Mystic Experiences and be so aggressive with his preaching, rob caravans, there would no serious fightings between Muhammad and the Qureshi.
So Muhammad is the ultimate root cause of the evils that follow to the present day.

Chapter 1
The Birth and Childhood of Muhammad
Marriage to Khadijah
Mystic Experience
The Myth of Persecution
Immigration to Medina
Divide and Rule
Promise of Heavenly Rewards
Incite to Violence
Raids
Rape
Torture
Assassination
Genocide
Invasion of Banu Qainuqa’
Invasion of Banu Nadir
Invasion of Banu Quraiza
Taqiyyah: the Holy Deception
Thank you
I think it's wonderful book I looked through some of the pages
And it will keep the electronic version of cultural interest
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:48 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I told you I have read many articles and different versions of Muhammad's life.

I have read the review and got an idea of the message of the film.
To be fair, you should also read other views.

How about this book;
Understanding Muhammad;
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/library/...uhammad4th.pdf

The early tit-for-tat issues that started the antagonism between Muhammad and the Meccan Qureshi are in the following chapter 1.
The Central Point is, if Muhammad had not experienced the Mystic Experiences and be so aggressive with his preaching, rob caravans, there would no serious fightings between Muhammad and the Qureshi.
So Muhammad is the ultimate root cause of the evils that follow to the present day.

Chapter 1
The Birth and Childhood of Muhammad
Marriage to Khadijah
Mystic Experience
The Myth of Persecution
Immigration to Medina
Divide and Rule
Promise of Heavenly Rewards
Incite to Violence
Raids
Rape
Torture
Assassination
Genocide
Invasion of Banu Qainuqa’
Invasion of Banu Nadir
Invasion of Banu Quraiza
Taqiyyah: the Holy Deception
This book is a load of nonsense but unbelievers would like it. It is what they want to read about Muhammad. So the apostates have joined forces to give them the crap that they are interested in.

"Muhammad’s call in Mecca was received with indifference. The Meccans,
like most non-Muslims of today, were tolerant of all religions. Religious
persecution in those lands was unheard of. Polytheistic societies are generally
tolerant by nature. They were offended when Muhammad insulted their gods, but
they did not harm him."

If you believe that, you will believe anything against Islam. Meccans were the first ones to kill Muslims immediately they found them to have become Muslims.

You like books about Muhammad?

The following is from another one:

Prophet Muhammad as the most influential man in History

How about wikiislam?

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muhammad_...uential_People

This is what Gandhi had said about Muhammad:

Mahatma Gandhi
I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/my-be...6297523723672/
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
This book is a load of nonsense but unbelievers would like it. It is what they want to read about Muhammad. So the apostates have joined forces to give them the crap that they are interested in.

"Muhammad’s call in Mecca was received with indifference. The Meccans,
like most non-Muslims of today, were tolerant of all religions. Religious
persecution in those lands was unheard of. Polytheistic societies are generally
tolerant by nature. They were offended when Muhammad insulted their gods, but
they did not harm him."

If you believe that, you will believe anything against Islam. Meccans were the first ones to kill Muslims immediately they found them to have become Muslims.

You like books about Muhammad?

The following is from another one:

Prophet Muhammad as the most influential man in History

How about wikiislam?

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muhammad_...uential_People

This is what Gandhi had said about Muhammad:

Mahatma Gandhi
I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/my-be...6297523723672/
I don't have anything of faith at stake, thus the point is I read from various sources, i.e. pros and those against and I will make up my mind based various other evidences from other sources on reality.

The wikiislam link is not in Muhammad favor;
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muhammad_...uential_People


Note Donald Trump as TIME’s 2016 Person of the Year;
http://www.today.com/news/president-...r-2016-t105684

Quote:
President-elect Donald Trump, the real estate businessman and political novice whose election campaign made the entire world take notice, has been selected as TIME’s 2016 Person of the Year.
The popularity is based on merely the frequent mentioned of the person in the media regardless of whether is for good or for evil. Therefore there is no assessment for the moral element and the positive effect it has on humanity.

Therefore if Prophet Muhammad is the Most Influential Person, it DO NOT denote whether the influence is for good or for evil. Influential in this case meant known by many and has general influence [good and evil].

Muhammad may have a positive influence on all Muslims but Muhammad has also influenced the whole world at present as a result of the terror and evils committed SOME evil prone Muslims who are inspired by Muhammad's teachings [attributed to Allah].

What would be more worthy is who is the Most Influential Person in term of net-positive benefits to mankind. Such a ranking is not easy to came up with because the criteria to be used are very subjective.

Last edited by Continuum; 01-09-2017 at 11:10 PM..
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
Quote:
"
1. Muhammad’s call in Mecca was received with indifference.
2. The Meccans, like most non-Muslims of today, were tolerant of all religions.
3. Religious persecution in those lands was unheard of.
4. Polytheistic societies are generally tolerant by nature.
5. They were offended when Muhammad insulted their gods, but they did not harm him."
If you believe that, you will believe anything against Islam.
Meccans were the first ones to kill Muslims immediately they found them to have become Muslims.
Muhammad's wife, Khadijah and Companions were the first Muslims [Muhammad's]. Was Muhammad's wife, Khadijah killed?
We do not know precisely what happened during 710 to 732 AD with Muhammad and his activities in Mecca.

To the above list, we should add;
6. After several warnings but no response from Muhammad, the Qureshi to various actions giving to incremental tit-for-tat that blew up to full blown battles.
The above activities in 1 to 6 can be reviewed against the thousands of cases of people who have had experience altered states of consciousness and went in an attempt to preach and start a religion or gather followers to their ideology.

Note the following;
List of messiah claimants throughout History;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants
1. Jewish messiah claimants
2. Christian messiah claimants
3. Muslim messiah claimants
4. Other/combination messiah claimants
Most of them followed the same pattern as what Muhammad did except for [Bahá'u'lláh] Bahai they did not manage to start any major religion but merely started various sects and cults.

If I agree with 1 to 6 as applicable to Muhammad it is only because I can objectively compare to real evidence in the present age.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:54 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Muhammad's wife, Khadijah and Companions were the first Muslims [Muhammad's]. Was Muhammad's wife, Khadijah killed?
Muhammad was the first Muslim after the Qur'aan was revealed and he was going to be killed during the night he escaped from Mecca. Initially, it was not revealed to Meccans as to which people had become Muslims. Khadijah was a rich woman. They had killed a poor woman first soon after finding out that the family had become Muslims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
We do not know precisely what happened during 710 to 732 AD with Muhammad and his activities in Mecca.
He was in Mecca only between 610 and 622.

You do not know precisely what happened then but still keep claiming that Muhammad was at fault with Meccans even though the Meccans had begun killing Muslims. Muslims had never killed any Meccan in Mecca by then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
To the above list, we should add;
6. After several warnings but no response from Muhammad, the Qureshi to various actions giving to incremental tit-for-tat that blew up to full blown battles.
The wars followed after the Meccans had killed Muslims. Every act of evilish nature was begun by the infidels of Mecca.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The above activities in 1 to 6 can be reviewed against the thousands of cases of people who have had experience altered states of consciousness and went in an attempt to preach and start a religion or gather followers to their ideology.
And many were killed by the Jews as false prophets. They had killed John the Baptist and had attempted to kill Jesus as well as Muhammad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note the following;
List of messiah claimants throughout History;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants
1. Jewish messiah claimants
2. Christian messiah claimants
3. Muslim messiah claimants
4. Other/combination messiah claimants
Muhammad never claimed to be Messiah. In fact, the message he delivered declared Jesus to be the Messiah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Most of them followed the same pattern as what Muhammad did except for [Bahá'u'lláh] Bahai they did not manage to start any major religion but merely started various sects and cults.
Baha'u;llah did accept Muhammad was a prophet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If I agree with 1 to 6 as applicable to Muhammad it is only because I can objectively compare to real evidence in the present age.
You won't find any Prophet after Muhammad. Prophethood ended with Muhammad.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Muhammad was the first Muslim after the Qur'aan was revealed and he was going to be killed during the night he escaped from Mecca. Initially, it was not revealed to Meccans as to which people had become Muslims. Khadijah was a rich woman. They had killed a poor woman first soon after finding out that the family had become Muslims.

You do not know precisely what happened then but still keep claiming that Muhammad was at fault with Meccans even though the Meccans had begun killing Muslims. Muslims had never killed any Meccan in Mecca by then.

The wars followed after the Meccans had killed Muslims. Every act of evilish nature was begun by the infidels of Mecca.

And many were killed by the Jews as false prophets. They had killed John the Baptist and had attempted to kill Jesus as well as Muhammad.
Are you claiming you know exactly what happened in Mecca during the period 610 to 632 AD [noted].
I admit I do not know as I was not there then.
However we can infer what was going on based on the best evidence, known knowledge of human nature and critical thinking.
You are merely relying on hearsay and do not apply basic knowledge of human nature.

Quote:
Muhammad never claimed to be Messiah. In fact, the message he delivered declared Jesus to be the Messiah.
The general topic here is people who claimed to be an agent of God, either as Messiah, messenger, Khalifahtan, prophets, chosen representative, etc.
In Muhammad's case he claimed to be an agent of God, i.e. as messenger with special favors [can marry more wives than his followers].

Quote:
You won't find any Prophet after Muhammad. Prophethood ended with Muhammad.
So say who? This is only a personal and group opinion.
There will be a continual stream of humans who will be stricken with the god-mental-problem and will claim to be an agent of God, as messenger, prophet, messiah, etc.

Here is one case [amongst thousands] of a person claiming to be God.
This at present is a commonly known psychiatric problem and fortunately his parent sent him to see a psychiatrist and a neuro-scientist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg

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