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Old 01-08-2017, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The "10%" is part of the Qur'aan context that renders "90%" as justice laden verses.
You and evil-doers have no leg to stand on.
Based on my detailed analysis, I disagree with your above assessment based on guesswork. To make you understand my point would be VERY tedious.

BUT just for this occassion, let say [assumed] I agree with your above point,
i.e.
Quran's 100% = 6,236 verses.
1. 2,836 [neutral and good] = 90%
2. 3,236 [evil laden verses]= 10%
The reality is All Muslims comprised;
3. 20% evil prone Muslims with active evil tendencies
4. 80% Muslim with an active evil potential.
The reality with Muslim is still, the
[3.] 20% evil prone Muslims with active evil tendencies will still be triggered by the
[2.] 3,236 [evil laden verses]= 10%, to commit terrible evils and violence.
Thus the evil prone Muslims will continue to commit terrible evils and violence in reality as long as [2] and [3] exist.

Because it is embedded in the DNA of human, we cannot cure the 20% of evil prone Muslims immediately at the present till say a long time into the future.

Therefore the most effective solution is thus to focus and deal directly with [2], the "3,236 [evil laden verses]=10%" in the Quran.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Let's see how you are pulling the fast one here!

Keep in mind that the term ud'wana must be stated in exactly the same way in another verses in order to compare the verse and the meanings.

For this reason, there is only one other verse in the Qur'aan in which ud'wana is written and spoken in exactly the same way as in the verse 2:193. And that verse is 28:28

قَالَ ذَٰلِكَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكَ ۖ أَيَّمَا الْأَجَلَيْنِ قَضَيْتُ فَلَا عُدْوَانَ عَلَيَّ ۖ وَاللَّهُ عَلَىٰ مَا نَقُولُ وَكِيلٌ

The word under discussion is: عُدْوَانَ

It is written and spoken in Arabic in exactly the same way as in 2:193:

وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّىٰ لَا تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلَّهِ ۖ فَإِنِ انْتَهَوْا فَلَا عُدْوَانَ إِلَّا عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ

Can you see the exact same word عُدْوَانَ in this verse too?

Now check with your favorite translator Pickthall to see how he had translated the exact same word:

[28:28] He said: That (is settled) between thee and me. Whichever of the two terms I fulfil, there will be no injustice to me, and Allah is Surety over what we say. (Pickthall)

[2:193] And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (Pickthall)

Pickthall did not translate عُدْوَانَ in both verses the same way. But I notice you have now used the Monotheist translation. Fine!

Let's compare their translation of عُدْوَانَ :

[2:193] And fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is for God. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked.

[28:28] He said: "It is then an agreement between me and you. Whichever period I fulfill, you will not be averse to either one. And God is entrusted over what we said."

Even they have translated the same word differently. So how can the same word be "hostility" and "aggression" in 2:193 but "injustice" and "averse" in 28:28?

If you are insisting on this word means "hostility" then why did you present 28:28 as your evidence when it is not hostility but "averse" in that verse. Are you now admitting that both translations, "aggression" and "averse" are correct for the word?
You seem to be confused with the above which in fact is condemning the question you raised earlier, i.e.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
These verses [2:190-4] do not command Muslims to begin hostilities on Jews and Muslims. You are inventing this lie about the Qur'aan.

You do not even know what is meant by the word ʿud'wāna' in the Qur'aan. You read the English word "hostility" in the translation and immediately bury your head in English linguistic hole unable to get out of it. It's your own fault that you haven't understood the Qur'aan properly. Do you even understand that the Arabic word ʿud'wāna' may not be anything to do with English word hostility?

Here is your problem of relying only on English words and not doing more research on that word to see what is meant by the word in the Arabic Qur'aan:

[2:193] And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility (ʿud'wāna') except against wrongdoers. (Pickthall)

[28:28] He said: That (is settled) between thee and me. Whichever of the two terms I fulfil, there will be no injustice (ʿud'wāna') to me, and Allah is Surety over what we say. (Pickthall)

[28:28] He said: "Be that (the agreement) between me and thee: whichever of the two terms I fulfil let there be no ill-will (ʿud'wāna') to me. Be Allah a witness to what we say." (Yusuf Ali)

[28:28] Answered [Moses]: "Thus shall it be between me and thee! Whichever of the two terms I fulfil, let there be no ill-will (ʿud'wāna') against me. And God be witness to all that we say!" (Asad)

As you can see, even Pickthall has translated the word "ud'wana" differently in two different verses. It is so because it is not meant to be "hostility" that is in English and in your mind. It is more like disagreement as between you and I.
You stated above;

Khalif: "It is so because it is not meant to be "hostility" that is in English and in your mind"
and you condemned my interpretations.

My response to your above is ʿud'wāna' in the context of 2:193 refer to 'hostilities'.

I provided a list of ALL verses in the Quran that has the term ʿud'wāna' which is used in DIFFERENT CONTEXTs for your reference.

IF you admit your statement in bold above is wrong, then you should agree with me, i.e.

ud'wāna' which is used in the context of 2:193 is 'hostilities'.
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
The word is recited as "ud'wana" and not "undawana". You can neither write it nor recite it properly. How are you going to know its proper meaning?
Come on. Don't be too fussy with this. I am not an expert in Arabic but such errors can be easily highlighted and corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Now let's take out the mess you have added from yourself in the above translation from Pickthall. Then really try to understand these verses properly to see if 2:193 is commanding Muslims to begin hostilities against the infidels/az-zalimin as you had claimed!

[2:190] Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. (Pickthall)

[2:190] And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do
not aggress, God does not love the aggressors. (Monotheist)

So rules of engagement are set quite clearly in this verse:
Fight only if they fight with you but Muslims are not to begin hostilities. Keep this in mind when you try to understand the rest of the verses in context relating to fighting and warfare.

[2:191] And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (Pickthall)

[2:191] And kill them wherever you encounter them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the rejecters. (Monotheist)

The same rule of engagement as in the previous verse.

[2:192] But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (Pickthall)

[2:192] And if they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful. (Monotheist)

If the enemy desist fighting you, then you may forgive them for what they did when they expelled you from your homes near the Ka'ba (Mecca) just as Allah does forgive people.

[2:193] And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. (Pickthall)

[2:193] And fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is for God. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked. (Monotheist)

Fight those who fight you until their persecution stops and you worship Allah freely without any hindrance. If they do not persecute you and hinder you from worshiping Allah then there should be no ill will except against those who carry on doing evil (wrongdoing). You cannot regard them as your friends.

[2:194] The forbidden month for the forbidden month, and forbidden things in retaliation. And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who ward off (evil). (Pickthall)

[2:194] The restricted month is for the restricted month, and wh at is forbidden may be met with retaliation. Whoever attacks you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you; and be aware of God, and know that God is with the righteous. (Monotheist)

The rule of engagement is clarified once more so that you can't twist it. No attack from Muslims unless there is attack from the other side first. No hostility from Muslims unless there is hostility from the other side first. No ill-will from Muslims unless there is ill-will from the other side first. The verse 2:194 goes much further as rule of engagement. If an enemy slaps you once, Muslim can't slap him twice. It can only be one slap in return.

This is the most pathetic attempt to describe the word "ud'wana" in the verse 2:193. You are not trying to describe "ud'wana" but trying to draw the readers attention to the other words in these verses. This is trying to deflect the attention to the other words than "ud'wana".

The word is recited as "ud'wana" and not "undawana". You can neither write it nor recite it properly. How are you going to know its proper meaning?

You cannot insist that 2:193 is telling us to begin hostility against infidels/az-zalimin just because you saw "hostility" as one of the translations of word "ud'wana" in the verse. This word in the Qur'an has been translated as "injustice", "ill-will, "aggression", "hostility", "transgression", "averse", "enmity" etc. This is so because when there is no perfect translation in English of an Arabic word, it is often translated in several English words. All could be close but not perfect. This lesson must be learnt by you before you insist anything and make silly mistake like, "begin hostility" against infidels.
What you failed to understand is the term 'udwana' with 'l-ẓālimīna.'

Your simplistic thinking re 2:193 is; if the non-Muslims do not drop ICBMs and nuclear bombs on you, do not attack them.
In reality [which you do not understand] is, there are many phases to a war or threats from enemies.
In many cases, words said and certain subtle acts by the enemies are taken and deemed to be acts of hostilities and thus are wrongdoings [zalum] by wrongdoers 'l-ẓālimīna.'.
Example:
Let's say [assumed] for some reasons India and Pakistan happened to enter into warfare mode due to various reasons.
Both sides will engage in certain provocative words and acts.
It is possible for Pakistan to interpret certain words declared by India to be an act of hostilities.
In this case, Pakistan being an Islamic State can apply 2:193 or other related verses on the basis of self-defense against an hostile act.
Pakistan Muslims [nothing to loose since Paradise is promised] then sent nuclear bombs to India and in return India has to retaliate and both India and Pakistan became nuclear waste lands that effected the neighboring countries and all over the world.

India on the other hand is not ruled by verses like 2:193 and other evil laden verses, therefore they must abide by the UN and international guidelines and would hesitate to use their nuclear bombs and taking MAD into considerations.
As you can see from the above example, it is all because verses like 2:193 exists in the Quran that cause India and Pakistan and other nearby Nations to be nuclear wastelands.
If verses like 2:193 and the likes do not exists in the Quran, then it is not likely Islamic Pakistan [or Iran, Saudi, ISIS if they are nuclear loaded] will bomb India with nuclear bombs.

The above example can be real possibilities with Islamic States ruled by the Quran.

So don't be so primitive and naive to the extent that you only deem the enemy as hostile when they appear with spears and knives at the doorstep of your tribe and start killing, then only you will go into self-defense mode as 2:193 dictate.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Come on. Don't be too fussy with this. I am not an expert in Arabic but such errors can be easily highlighted and corrected.

What you failed to understand is the term 'udwana' with 'l-ẓālimīna.'

Your simplistic thinking re 2:193 is; if the non-Muslims do not drop ICBMs and nuclear bombs on you, do not attack them.
In reality [which you do not understand] is, there are many phases to a war or threats from enemies.
In many cases, words said and certain subtle acts by the enemies are taken and deemed to be acts of hostilities and thus are wrongdoings [zalum] by wrongdoers 'l-ẓālimīna.'.
Example:
Let's say [assumed] for some reasons India and Pakistan happened to enter into warfare mode due to various reasons.
Both sides will engage in certain provocative words and acts.
It is possible for Pakistan to interpret certain words declared by India to be an act of hostilities.
In this case, Pakistan being an Islamic State can apply 2:193 or other related verses on the basis of self-defense against an hostile act.
Pakistan Muslims [nothing to loose since Paradise is promised] then sent nuclear bombs to India and in return India has to retaliate and both India and Pakistan became nuclear waste lands that effected the neighboring countries and all over the world.

India on the other hand is not ruled by verses like 2:193 and other evil laden verses, therefore they must abide by the UN and international guidelines and would hesitate to use their nuclear bombs and taking MAD into considerations.
As you can see from the above example, it is all because verses like 2:193 exists in the Quran that cause India and Pakistan and other nearby Nations to be nuclear wastelands.
If verses like 2:193 and the likes do not exists in the Quran, then it is not likely Islamic Pakistan [or Iran, Saudi, ISIS if they are nuclear loaded] will bomb India with nuclear bombs.

The above example can be real possibilities with Islamic States ruled by the Quran.

So don't be so primitive and naive to the extent that you only deem the enemy as hostile when they appear with spears and knives at the doorstep of your tribe and start killing, then only you will go into self-defense mode as 2:193 dictate.
Continuum,

Verse 2:193 is not the whole Qur'aan.

You seem to be hell bent on isolating a verse out of the whole Qur'aan or even isolate just a part of the verse from the rest of the verse to match the "evil element" in your mind. You need to stop doing this if you are not to damage your intellectual integrity.

In Islam per the Qur'aan, Muslims are not to start hostility (action). This is the very first rule. Fight only those who fight you (2:190) should be clear enough to you. As you are fond of seeing the meaning from the other side, it means, do not fight if they do not start the fight. That should also be clear enough to you.

Read 2:194. the verse next to 2:193, and you will find the rule of engagement. Inflict injury only to the extent that the injury your enemy has inflicted upon you. It means one slap for one slap and not two slaps for one slap. Two slaps would be exceeding the limit set by Allah through the Qur'aan. That too should be clear enough to you.

When are you going to understand the Qur'aan?
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Continuum,

Verse 2:193 is not the whole Qur'aan.

You seem to be hell bent on isolating a verse out of the whole Qur'aan or even isolate just a part of the verse from the rest of the verse to match the "evil element" in your mind. You need to stop doing this if you are not to damage your intellectual integrity.
I admit I have been hasty in a few cases and will correct my position if justified.

Here is one case [amongst many] of your hastiness in omitting [forgetting] what I have said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The above is merely one example i.e. 2:193 and why 2:193 justify Muslims can begin hostilities against infidels if the above context exists.
Note I have provided almost hundred verses to support by point.

As I had stated, I will produce 3,400++ to support my main points and I will produce hundreds of verses to support my other sub-points later or when my project is finished.
My post above prove your view, i.e.
"you are hell bent on isolating a verse out of the whole Qur'aan or even isolate just a part of the verse from the rest of the verse to match the "evil element" in your mind"
is wrong!!

I stated above 2:193 is merely ONE example and I rely on hundreds of other verses and a total of 3,400++ verses to support my view.
So I am not hell bent on relying on 2:193 only.
Will you admit to the above and correct your view?

Quote:
In Islam per the Qur'aan, Muslims are not to start hostility (action). This is the very first rule. Fight only those who fight you (2:190) should be clear enough to you. As you are fond of seeing the meaning from the other side, it means, do not fight if they do not start the fight. That should also be clear enough to you.

Read 2:194. the verse next to 2:193, and you will find the rule of engagement. Inflict injury only to the extent that the injury your enemy has inflicted upon you. It means one slap for one slap and not two slaps for one slap. Two slaps would be exceeding the limit set by Allah through the Qur'aan. That too should be clear enough to you.

When are you going to understand the Qur'aan?
The above is your view which is a good thing.
But reality is there are a minority % [many quantum wise] who are unfortunately born with an active evil tendencies who are inclined to evil texts.
This % of evil prone peoples exists naturally, inevitably and cannot be avoided.
There is nothing you can do to cure them of their evil tendencies and there is nothing you can do to stop them from being compelled by their inherent evil tendencies to be triggered and commit evil and violence when exposed to the evil laden elements in the Quran.

Note the stories in the Quran are meant as examples to exemplify the principles involved.
2:190-194 contained various principles to cater for various situations.
2:193 has provision for various situations of 'hostilities'.
2:194 state if 'attacked' like the case of USA responding to 'attack of Pearl Harbor'

The point is I am not throwing out wild speculations.
The evils and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who are inspired by evil laden verses in the Quran is very real and glaring [indisputable].
Note we should NOT refer merely to what ISIS, Taliban, Boko Haram and other terrorists are doing but note the whole spectrum of evils and violence [minor to serious] committed by various evil prone Muslims in various degrees around the world.

Last edited by Continuum; 01-09-2017 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I admit I have been hasty in a few cases and will correct my position if justified.
You tried to blame your hastiness in breaking down my 41 words statement to just 6 words. This wasn't hastiness but well calculated deception; an evil act. The least you could do was apologize for doing that to my statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Here is one case [amongst many] of your hastiness in omitting [forgetting] what I have said.
No hastiness there on my part. Every verse you use to point out your imagined "evil element" in the Qur'aan is either verse out of context or only a part of the verse and not the whole verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
My post above prove your view, i.e.
"you are hell bent on isolating a verse out of the whole Qur'aan or even isolate just a part of the verse from the rest of the verse to match the "evil element" in your mind"
is wrong!!
It is correct view and I will keep reminding you about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I stated above 2:193 is merely ONE example and I rely on hundreds of other verses and a total of 3,400++ verses to support my view.
It is not supporting your view but merely looking for straws that aren't even there for you to hang on to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
So I am not hell bent on relying on 2:193 only.
Will you admit to the above and correct your view?
My view is correct. You used the same method with 2:193 and the other verses as you did with my 41 words statement to create a 6 words statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The above is your view which is a good thing.
But reality is there are a minority % [many quantum wise] who are unfortunately born with an active evil tendencies who are inclined to evil texts.
Nonsense! There are no evil texts in the Qur'aan or else I would be using them to commit evils. I too have potential to commit evil like anyone else. This proves my point that evil doers are not influenced by any text of the Qur'aan but by other factors initially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This % of evil prone peoples exists naturally, inevitably and cannot be avoided.
Then they will commit evil regardless of whether the Qur'aan is there or not. They don't commit evil with the Qur'aan but with guns, bombs, trucks or sharp knives. Why don't you campaign to get rid of all these things that are actually used to harm people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There is nothing you can do to cure them of their evil tendencies and there is nothing you can do to stop them from being compelled by their inherent evil tendencies to be triggered and commit evil and violence when exposed to the evil laden elements in the Quran.
I too am exposed to your imagined "evil laden elements" in the Qur'aan but my inherent evil tendencies are never triggered to commit violence and evil. It's so because those imagined "evil laden elements" are in fact justice laden elements that you are blind to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note the stories in the Quran are meant as examples to exemplify the principles involved.
2:190-194 contained various principles to cater for various situations.
2:193 has provision for various situations of 'hostilities'.
2:194 state if 'attacked' like the case of USA responding to 'attack of Pearl Harbor'
Are you then saying that the Qur'aan is correct in principle regarding 2:190-194?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The point is I am not throwing out wild speculations.
Of course you are not throwing out wild speculations. I never said that you do so. These are not your wild speculations but wild calculations. You did that even to my 41 words statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The evils and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who are inspired by evil laden verses in the Quran is very real and glaring [indisputable].
If you keep repeating that day after day, it doesn't mean you are right. By now this mantra has become quite boring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note we should NOT refer merely to what ISIS, Taliban, Boko Haram and other terrorists are doing but note the whole spectrum of evils and violence [minor to serious] committed by various evil prone Muslims in various degrees around the world.
None of it is because of the Qur'aan or else ALL the Muslims would be doing evil acts. ISIS, Taliban, Boko Haram are political organizations just as Hamas and Hezbollah are political organizations. You will never see these people visiting mosques to teach the Qur'aan. It's because most of them are ignorant about the Qur'aan. If anything, they twist the meanings of verses of the Qur'aan just as you do so that they can match the meanings with their evil intent.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Based on my detailed analysis, I disagree with your above assessment based on guesswork. To make you understand my point would be VERY tedious.

BUT just for this occassion, let say [assumed] I agree with your above point,
i.e.
Quran's 100% = 6,236 verses.
1. 2,836 [neutral and good] = 90%
2. 3,236 [evil laden verses]= 10%
The reality is All Muslims comprised;
3. 20% evil prone Muslims with active evil tendencies
4. 80% Muslim with an active evil potential.
The reality with Muslim is still, the
[3.] 20% evil prone Muslims with active evil tendencies will still be triggered by the
[2.] 3,236 [evil laden verses]= 10%, to commit terrible evils and violence.
Thus the evil prone Muslims will continue to commit terrible evils and violence in reality as long as [2] and [3] exist.

Because it is embedded in the DNA of human, we cannot cure the 20% of evil prone Muslims immediately at the present till say a long time into the future.

Therefore the most effective solution is thus to focus and deal directly with [2], the "3,236 [evil laden verses]=10%" in the Quran.
Consider the possibility that the Qur'an is what is preventing 90% of the "20% evil prone Muslims with active evil tendencies" from committing evils and violence.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The weightage would be;

3,400++ evil laden verses = 90%
Other 2,836 verses = 10%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The "10%" is part of the Qur'aan context that renders "90%" as justice laden verses.

You and evil-doers have no leg to stand on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Based on my detailed analysis, I disagree with your above assessment based on guesswork. To make you understand my point would be VERY tedious.

BUT just for this occassion, let say [assumed] I agree with your above point,
i.e.
Quran's 100% = 6,236 verses.
1. 2,836 [neutral and good] = 90%
2. 3,236 [evil laden verses]= 10%
That might be your point but not my point.

Neither the 2,836 is 90% of the 6,236 nor is the 3,236 10% of the 6,236 in my calculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The reality is All Muslims comprised;
3. 20% evil prone Muslims with active evil tendencies
4. 80% Muslim with an active evil potential.
The reality with Muslim is still, the
[3.] 20% evil prone Muslims with active evil tendencies will still be triggered by the
[2.] 3,236 [evil laden verses]= 10%, to commit terrible evils and violence.
This goes to show how poor you are in working out the percentage and how much of the written text you can't understand. You did not understand at all as to what I had written.

I had written:

The "10%" is part of the Qur'aan context that renders "90%" as justice laden verses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Thus the evil prone Muslims will continue to commit terrible evils and violence in reality as long as [2] and [3] exist.
Wrong!

[2] 10% is what makes the rest “justice laden verses”. So that’s out as your evidence to start with.

As for [3] all have potential to do evil since the day man was created. That will not change for the worse unless the Qur'aan is taken out of the circulation. The evil will keep happening even more without the Qur’aan.

Such “20% of evil prone Muslims” are part of the “20% of evil prone humans”. Absence of the Qur’aan will push up the figure 20% of evil prone humans. Therefore you are suggesting a negative method that will increase evil rather than reduce evil in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Because it is embedded in the DNA of human, we cannot cure the 20% of evil prone Muslims immediately at the present till say a long time into the future.
Because it is imbedded in the DNA of humans, you can blame only the humans for their evil acts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Therefore the most effective solution is thus to focus and deal directly with [2], the "3,236 [evil laden verses]=10%" in the Quran.
That is a foolish “solution” as it will only increase the evil doers. The 10% of the verses are keeping the evil in check. The other 90% are justice laden verses that act as detterent. The net result is less evil in the world as most Muslims are peaceful due to the Qur'aan teachings.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You seem to be confused with the above which in fact is condemning the question you raised earlier, i.e.

You stated above;

Khalif: "It is so because it is not meant to be "hostility" that is in English and in your mind"
and you condemned my interpretations.

My response to your above is ʿud'wāna' in the context of 2:193 refer to 'hostilities'.

I provided a list of ALL verses in the Quran that has the term ʿud'wāna' which is used in DIFFERENT CONTEXTs for your reference.

IF you admit your statement in bold above is wrong, then you should agree with me, i.e.

ud'wāna' which is used in the context of 2:193 is 'hostilities'.
It is neither 'hostilities' nor "begin hostilities against infidels/az-zalimin'. You need to go back and check again.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,590,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Consider the possibility that the Qur'an is what is preventing 90% of the "20% evil prone Muslims with active evil tendencies" from committing evils and violence.
I stated

Mankind:
1. 100% of all humans has potential for evil.
2. 80% of Muslims [and humans] do not has an active evil tendency to trigger the inherent evil
3. 20% of Muslims [evil prone] has an active evil tendency to trigger the inherent evil.

Quran:
1. 3,400++ of the 6,236 verses of the Quran contain evil laden elements of various degrees.
2. Only a small number of verses [very low %] has positive elements.

The positive verses may prevent SOME % of the evil prone from committing evils and violence, but this % is not significant.

The main concern is 20% of Muslims, i.e. a potential pool of 300 millions evil prone Muslims are in existence and any one of them can be triggered to commit evils and violence of various degrees [minor to serious].

Another element that is preventing a small % from good Muslims and evil prone Muslim from committing evils and violence is basic human nature, i.e. their natural human conscience and not because of the Quran which are holding back the forces of the evil laden elements in the Quran.
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