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Old 05-05-2017, 12:39 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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Those who follow the development of religions know that the idea of one God is derived from Abraham
Then came Judaism which proclaimed the attributes of that God
He who reads the Torah knows very well that God is one
This is why Islam did not offer anything new
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:40 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Those who follow the development of religions know that the idea of one God is derived from Abraham
Then came Judaism which proclaimed the attributes of that God
He who reads the Torah knows very well that God is one
This is why Islam did not offer anything new
That means you do not know much about the development of religion with One God.

[7.59] Certainly We sent Noah to his people, so he said: O my people! Serve God, you have no god other than Him; surely I fear for you the chastisement of a grievous day.

Idea of One God did not derive from Abraham but a long time before him.

You need to understand Islam better if you want to carry on discussing it here.
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Old 05-05-2017, 11:42 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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You are not the administrator in this forum
The story of Noah is one of the stories of the Torah and there is no definitive proof that Noah knew the oneness of God
Because written human history was after the invention of writing in Mesopotamia and in Egypt
The Torah is one of the oldest written texts
The idea of God and one set off with Abraham
The Quran emphasizes this as well

And the verse 90 of surat Yunus

Confirm this

He said, "I believe that there is no god but the one whom the children of Israel believed, and I am a Muslim." (90)

I think Muslims are not under Pharaoh
You know that Islam appeared with Muhammad the prophet of Islam
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Old 05-06-2017, 12:25 AM
 
4,411 posts, read 1,639,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Those who follow the development of religions know that the idea of one God is derived from Abraham
Then came Judaism which proclaimed the attributes of that God
He who reads the Torah knows very well that God is one
This is why Islam did not offer anything new
I am not sure what's your problem in this post.

You said, Islam got the idea of monotheism from Judaism. And hence Islam offers nothing new.

OK, so you wanted something new? If yes, then you already got something new in Christianity where God is one in three, and three in one.

What's your problem now?
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Old 05-06-2017, 01:45 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I am not sure what's your problem in this post.

You said, Islam got the idea of monotheism from Judaism. And hence Islam offers nothing new.

OK, so you wanted something new? If yes, then you already got something new in Christianity where God is one in three, and three in one.

What's your problem now?
His problem is that he does not like Islam or Muslims. Therefore, he is not here to discuss Islam but to critique Islam.

He is doing a very poor job of it.
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Old 05-06-2017, 02:40 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
You are not the administrator in this forum
Nor are you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
The story of Noah is one of the stories of the Torah and there is no definitive proof that Noah knew the oneness of God
The problem with you is that you can't understand English. You did not understand simple English in the verse 7:59 I had quoted.

[7.59] Certainly We sent Noah to his people, so he said: O my people! Serve God, you have no god other than Him; surely I fear for you the chastisement of a grievous day.

You can't discuss Islam by being blind to the verse 7:59 of the Qur'aan.

I give you more to think about in simple English:

[9.31] They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides God, and (also) the Messiah son of Mary and they were enjoined that they should serve One God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

Did you understand something new in it?

If it doesn't go along with your belief, tough! This is Islam board. and not Christianity or Judaism/Torah board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Because written human history was after the invention of writing in Mesopotamia and in Egypt
The Torah is one of the oldest written texts
The oldest written Torah was destroyed by the Babylonians. The present one was written after the Babylonian captivity, much later than Abraham and even the exodus from Egypt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
The idea of God and one set off with Abraham
The Quran emphasizes this as well
Adam and Noah existed long before Abraham. Both Adam and Noah knew about One God long before Abraham. Noah had preached serving One God:

[7.59] Certainly We sent Noah to his people, so he said: O my people! Serve God, you have no god other than Him; surely I fear for you the chastisement of a grievous day.

You need to read the Qur'aan (and not only the Torah) if you want to discuss Islam in this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
And the verse 90 of surat Yunus

Confirm this

He said, "I believe that there is no god but the one whom the children of Israel believed, and I am a Muslim." (90)
"I am of those who submit". Children of Israel were submitting to God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
I think Muslims are not under Pharaoh
Your thinking is twisted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
You know that Islam appeared with Muhammad the prophet of Islam
Then why do you argue that it is not new or there is nothing new in it? If the idea of One God in Islam is older than Prophet Muhammad then Islam itself is older too.

[2.163] And your God is one God! There is no god but He; He is the Beneficent, the Merciful.

There are at least 35 more verses in the Qur'aan that say that there is no other god but He/Him.
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Old 05-06-2017, 11:23 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
His problem is that he does not like Islam or Muslims. Therefore, he is not here to discuss Islam but to critique Islam.

He is doing a very poor job of it.
This accusation is unacceptable
You have a logical answer to what I write
And provided you with the guide of the Koran
The verse is from the Koran
There is no god but the one whom the children of Israel have believed
As for Noah, there is not one written proof of the truth of the accounts of him
Because Noah was before the invention of writing
Because the flood is a novel known historically
It is known in the writings of the peoples of Mesopotamia
And there are also different stories about them
So you can not prove that Noah knew the one God
I give you another proof
When the Europeans reached America and Canada, they discovered people who did not know the idea of God
So the idea of the One God is one of the thoughts of Abraham
So the idea of the one God is not invented by Muhammad
It's an old idea
The first to call it is Ibrahim
I hope the dialogue will be scientific and far from accusation and provocation
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Old 05-06-2017, 11:31 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I am not sure what's your problem in this post.

You said, Islam got the idea of monotheism from Judaism. And hence Islam offers nothing new.

OK, so you wanted something new? If yes, then you already got something new in Christianity where God is one in three, and three in one.

What's your problem now?
My friend, I do not speak about Christianity because the rules of the forum do not allow that and you know it well
If you want dialogue in the Christian faith, I hope to be somewhere else
But the idea of God is one
Yes, it is an idea that you have formed with Abraham
Islam has offered nothing new in this context
I believe that through discussion you can discover the truth
That is the goal of dialogue
Because we are in a forum for dialogue and we are not in a missionary forum
The free forum has different views
I think that's why I'm here
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Old 05-06-2017, 11:36 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Nor are you!
The problem with you is that you can't understand English. You did not understand simple English in the verse 7:59 I had quoted.

[7.59] Certainly We sent Noah to his people, so he said: O my people! Serve God, you have no god other than Him; surely I fear for you the chastisement of a grievous day.

You can't discuss Islam by being blind to the verse 7:59 of the Qur'aan.

I give you more to think about in simple English:

[9.31] They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides God, and (also) the Messiah son of Mary and they were enjoined that they should serve One God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

Did you understand something new in it?

If it doesn't go along with your belief, tough! This is Islam board. and not Christianity or Judaism/Torah board.

The oldest written Torah was destroyed by the Babylonians. The present one was written after the Babylonian captivity, much later than Abraham and even the exodus from Egypt.

Adam and Noah existed long before Abraham. Both Adam and Noah knew about One God long before Abraham. Noah had preached serving One God:

[7.59] Certainly We sent Noah to his people, so he said: O my people! Serve God, you have no god other than Him; surely I fear for you the chastisement of a grievous day.

You need to read the Qur'aan (and not only the Torah) if you want to discuss Islam in this forum.

"I am of those who submit". Children of Israel were submitting to God.

Your thinking is twisted.
Then why do you argue that it is not new or there is nothing new in it? If the idea of One God in Islam is older than Prophet Muhammad then Islam itself is older too.

[2.163] And your God is one God! There is no god but He; He is the Beneficent, the Merciful.

There are at least 35 more verses in the Qur'aan that say that there is no other god but He/Him.
I believe that Islam does not say only God
But he says faith in Muhammad is the Messenger of God
Because faith in Islam means faith in one God
And Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah
If you do not believe that Muhammad is the Messenger of God
Faith is not acceptable
That is why we are different
I believe that God is one
I do not believe in Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah
Do you accept my faith?
I hope to send the answer in yes or no
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:47 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
This accusation is unacceptable
You have a logical answer to what I write
Of course I give you logical answers but you can't understand them in simple English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
And provided you with the guide of the Koran
The verse is from the Koran
There is no god but the one whom the children of Israel have believed
And you do not believe that but believe that Abraham thought about that One God first. What's your problem when Abraham came before the Children of Israel and Noah came before Abraham and Adam came before Noah and even Adam knew about One God telling him not to go near that tree. Therefore your silly argument here makes no sense in this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
As for Noah, there is not one written proof of the truth of the accounts of him
It's because you can't read the written Qur'aan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Because Noah was before the invention of writing
Because the flood is a novel known historically
How do you know that history is a lie?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
And there are also different stories about them
So you can not prove that Noah knew the one God
Noah knew about One God. Read the Last Testament; Al-Qur'aan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
I give you another proof
When the Europeans reached America and Canada, they discovered people who did not know the idea of God
And many people did not know about the idea about One God even in Arabia when the Qur'aan was revealed. What's your point?
https://historyofislam.com/the-afric...fore-columbus/
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
So the idea of the One God is one of the thoughts of Abraham
And of Noah and of Adam and of even the serpent (the shaytan).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
So the idea of the one God is not invented by Muhammad
It's an old idea
Nobody is saying here that idea of One God was invented by Muhammad. I simply don't know why you are thinking in a twisted way about Muhammad.

I have already told you that idea of One God is even older than Abraham. It wasn't invented even by the Children of Israel or Noah or your forefather Adam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
The first to call it is Ibrahim
Not by the Qur'aan. You are ignoring the verse I had quoted about Noah. It's because you could not read that verse in simple English.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
I hope the dialogue will be scientific and far from accusation and provocation
Pot calling the kettle black!
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