U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 03-30-2017, 02:12 PM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,161,709 times
Reputation: 15093

Advertisements

I invite Lion to consider this. Islam, like Christianity, is flawed. Neither the Holy Koran or the Bible has the morality of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The violence, sexism and homophobia of those two Holy Books, and their mention of slavery without unequivocal condemnation, clearly put them at a lower morality than the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Hence, they are not guides as to how to live. They are explicitly flawed.


In addition, both of Islam and Christianity offer motivational prizes to believe in them - everlasting life or hell! This is a childish nonsense compared to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which requires no such prizes or punishments - it rests upon doing the right thing simply because it is the right thing to do. Humans are venal. Offer them "life everlasting" they will do things they know deep down to be wrong and evil (like being homophobic or sexist or killing intelligent animals or punishing people of different beliefs) just so they get a chance at this prize. Its corruption.


We all know that no-one actually knows what the truth is. Sure we believe some ideas, such as Islam, and some of us believe them so strongly that they go around living their whole life based on this guess. But the bottom line is - no one actually knows. (We all understand this truth that no-one knows since..... we are all humans).


And finally, we see that there are people on earth who are more forgiving, more merciful and more compassionate than the supposed creators mentioned in these Holy Books. There are people who act good, treat others well and with no reward of everlasting life or punishment of hell or requirement to follow some alleged Creator's rules.


On the million years humans have been on this earth, only the last 5000 years or less have they had to deal with these imperfect manmade religions, and with Islam only the last 1,500 years. A tiny speck of time in the history of humanity.


We are all in the same boat. No one knows, we can all guess, but in the end we do have one life for sure and making that world of that life the best world we can, with the right behavior towards others (based on how each of us wants to be treated, and not want to be treated, bar conflicting with any other humans rights we have agreed) is the best path.




The fact that human rights conditions are better outside most theocracies, especially Islamic theocracies, than in should open your eyes.

 
Old 03-31-2017, 04:41 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
I invite Lion to consider this. Islam, like Christianity, is flawed. Neither the Holy Koran or the Bible has the morality of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
I disagree with what is stated here about the Qur'aan. Universal declaration of Human Rights is just an agreement signed in 1948. Ever since 1948, right of both the Palestinians and the Kashmiri people to self-determination have been denied. The whole world wouldn't be in the mess today if such right had not been denied for 68 years.

The Qur'aan recognizes right of all human beings. Life is sacred in Islam. According to the Qur'aan, God gives life and only God has the right to take life. Man has no right to take another life.

The scope of the Qur'aan is limited to its guidance. It is up to the humans to implement the guidance in practice. If humans fail, it is the humans that are flawed; not the Qur'aan. The same way, the scope of the UDHR itself is limited to its idea. It is still up to the humans to put their money where their mouth is. There are still laws in the Western world which are not designed with human rights in mind but the national rights in mind. Human rights go out of the window when it comes to the national interests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
The violence, sexism and homophobia of those two Holy Books, and their mention of slavery without unequivocal condemnation, clearly put them at a lower morality than the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Hence, they are not guides as to how to live. They are explicitly flawed.
The violence, sexism and homophobia is still rife in the countries which do not follow the Qur'aan but have agreed to the UDHR. Declaration of human rights by these countries hasn't stopped the violence, sexism and homophobia. That means, the UDHR is flawed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
In addition, both of Islam and Christianity offer motivational prizes to believe in them - everlasting life or hell! This is a childish nonsense compared to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which requires no such prizes or punishments - it rests upon doing the right thing simply because it is the right thing to do.
If prizes are not going to make humans to do good, and punishment is not going to deter them from doing evil then UDHR is license to do whatever you like without any prize or punishment.

Of course, in practice the case is not as simple in each case. One's action in each case is still subject to the legal requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Humans are venal. Offer them "life everlasting" they will do things they know deep down to be wrong and evil (like being homophobic or sexist or killing intelligent animals or punishing people of different beliefs) just so they get a chance at this prize. Its corruption.
You are quite correct here; offer them cheap oil and they will do anything for the "national interests" which is often personal business interests regardless of UDHR. UDHR did not stop people lying about WMDs. Human rights of millions have suffered ever since then. Syrian refugees are merely collateral damage of such a lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
We all know that no-one actually knows what the truth is. Sure we believe some ideas, such as Islam, and some of us believe them so strongly that they go around living their whole life based on this guess. But the bottom line is - no one actually knows. (We all understand this truth that no-one knows since..... we are all humans).
There are two groups of people. One group believes that there is life after death. The other group believes that there is no life after death; once you are dead you will be no more in future just as you were nothing at one stage in the past. Only one group is bound to be right. If I am wrong, I have lost nothing but still lived this life in peace and content. If I am right, i get the best of the both worlds. Overall, I can't go wrong, can I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
And finally, we see that there are people on earth who are more forgiving, more merciful and more compassionate than the supposed creators mentioned in these Holy Books.
From what I have read in the Qur'aan, The Creator is the Most Forgiving, Most Merciful and Most Compassionate. The Creator has given me life and made me aware of existence. None of the people can do that for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
There are people who act good, treat others well and with no reward of everlasting life or punishment of hell or requirement to follow some alleged Creator's rules.
They were created to do just that and more. They were given that ability and capability otherwise they would have been anything but human beings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
On the million years humans have been on this earth, only the last 5000 years or less have they had to deal with these imperfect manmade religions, and with Islam only the last 1,500 years. A tiny speck of time in the history of humanity.
What else did you expect from first organism to chimps? No book would have been any good to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
We are all in the same boat. No one knows, we can all guess, but in the end we do have one life for sure and making that world of that life the best world we can, with the right behavior towards others (based on how each of us wants to be treated, and not want to be treated, bar conflicting with any other humans rights we have agreed) is the best path.
Yes, one life for sure but what if this is not the only life? I find the best way to live this life is as guided by Allah (SWT). That is to live this life peacefully and be vicegerent on earth and work for the best interests of all living earthly creatures and the earthly environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
The fact that human rights conditions are better outside most theocracies, especially Islamic theocracies, than in should open your eyes.
On the surface, it may look so to you but, in practice, it hasn't really worked as promised. Despite the oldest democracy, UK never had a woman leader until 1979. We are still waiting for a woman to be the president of the USA. During this time, we have had women leaders in the Muslim majority countries. Sexism?
 
Old 04-03-2017, 01:55 PM
 
204 posts, read 108,722 times
Reputation: 15
thank you brother

“But Islam has yet a further service to render the cause of humanity… No other society has such a record of success in uniting in an equality of status, of opportunity and of endeavour so many and so various races of mankind. The great Muslim communities of Africa, India and Indonesia, perhaps also the small Muslim community in Japan, show that Islam has still the power to reconcile apparently irreconciliable elements of race and tradition. If ever the opposition of the great societies of the East and West is to be replaced by co-operation, the mediation of Islam is an indispensable condition.”

(H.A.R. Gibb. Whither Islam, London, 1932 p. 379).

“But above all—and herein is its supreme importance in the missionary history of Islam—it ordains a yearly gathering of believers, of all nations and languages, brought together from all parts of the world, to pray in that sacred place towards which their faces are set in every hour of private worship in their distant homes. No stretch of religious genius could have conceived a better expedient for impressing on the minds of the faithful a sense of their common life and of brotherhood in the bonds of faith. Here, in a supreme act of common worship, the Negro of the West coast of Africa meets the Chinaman from the distant East; the courtly and polished Ottoman recognises his brother Muslim in the wild islander from the farthest end of the MalayanSea. At the same time throughout the whole Muhammedan world the hearts of believers are lifted up in sympathy with their more fortunate brethren gathered together in the sacred city, as in their own homes they celebrate the festival of ‘Eed al-Ad-haa’ or (as it is called in Turkey and Egypt) the feast of Bayram.”

“Besides the institution of the pilgrimage, the payment of the legal alms is another duty that continually reminds the Muslim that ‘the faithful are brothers’ (XLIX-10) – religious theory that is very strikingly realised in Muhammedan society and seldom fails to express itself in acts of kindness towards the new convert. Whatever be his race, colour or antecedents he is received into the brotherhood of believers and takes his place as an equal among equals.”

(T. W. Arnold, The Preaching of Islam, London, 1956, pp. 415-416).

“It was the first religion that preached and practised democracy; for, in the mosque when the call from the minaret is sounded and the worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and the king kneel side by side and proclaim: “God Alone is Great”. I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes a man distinctively a brother. When you meet an Egyptian, an Algerian, an Indian and a Turk in London, what matters that Egypt was the motherland of one and India the motherland of another.”

(Sarojini Naidu, Lecture on “The ideals of Islam” vide Speeches and Writings of Sarojini Naidu, Madras, 1918, p.169).
\\\



Abu Talib and Khadija were the main supporters of the Prophet (SAW). It was so destined that they passed away within a few days of each other, leaving the Prophet (SAW) to lament the bereavement. He had lost a caring uncle and a loving wife.

The enemies were now relieved, because Abu Talib was no more to protect. A few days after Abu Talib's death, when the Prophet was once passing through a lane, a woman emptied her garbage from a window upon his head. He returned home with his head soiled. His young daughter Fatima sat beside him, consoling and washing off the dirt.

As things became intolerable in Makkah, the Prophet (SAW) decided to move to Taif where he thought he would convey the message of Allah to the tribe of Thaqeef. Taif was known for its pleasant climate and beautiful scenery.

The Prophet (SAW) knew very well that people at Taif were no different from Makkahns. They also worshiped idols and were in constant contact with the people in Makkah. But he did not despair. As he entered Taif, and proclaimed his prophet hood, people jeered at him. One said: "God did not find anyone else for His message except you?" Another said: "I must be naive or a thief if I believed you to be a prophet." And so it went on.

Then in order to prevent him from preaching Islam, people of Taif set a group of children and vagabonds behind him. They pestered him and threw stones at him. He started bleeding, blood from body came down to his feet. Tired, forsaken and wounded, he sought refuge in a nearby garden. It belonged to Atabah and Shaibab, two wealthy chiefs of Quraish. They were both there when the Prophet entered and sat under a distant tree. He was alone.

Then he raised his face towards heaven and prayed: "O Allah! I raise unto you my complaint for my weakness, my helplessness, and for the ridicule to which I have been subjected. O Merciful of all the Merciful s! You are the Master of all oppressed people, You are my God! So to whom would You consign me? To the strangers who would ill-treat me, or to the enemies who have an upper hand over me?

If whatever has befallen me is not because of Your wrath, then I fear not. No doubt, the field of Your security and care is wide enough for me. I seek refuge in Your light which illuminates darkness and straightens the affairs of this world and hereafter, that Your displeasure and wrath may not descend upon me. For the sake of Your pleasure, I remain pleased and resigned to my fate. No change in this world occurs without Your Will."

While he was sitting there, Angel Jabreel (AS) along with the angel of mountains came there and said "O Prophet of Allah! if you order us the we will grind the people of taif between mountains."
But SubhanAllah on mercy of our Prophet, He said "i am sent as the prophet of mercy, not to punish people" He further said "These people just dont know me" and "I hope that Allah will raise some one among these people who will serve islam" (Muhammad bin Qasim (who spread islam in sub continent was descendent of these taif people)

Atabah and Shaibah (owners of the garden) were watching. They sent for their servant named Adaas and gave him a plate full of grapes. "Take this to that man under the tree," they ordered.

Adaas was a Christian. He brought the grapes to the Prophet (SAW) and bid him eat. As the Prophet (SAW) picked a bunch he said: "Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahiim," (In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate).

Adaas had never heard some on in arab saying this before. He was impressed by it, because the man was invoking mercy and compassion of Allah in spite of his desolate state.

"Who are you?" he asked.

"I am the Prophet of God. Where do you come from?"

The servant said: I am Adaas, a Christian. I come from Nainava."

"Nainava? You come from a place where my brother Yunus b. Mati lived," the Prophet said. Adaas was surprised to hear the name.

"What do you know of Yunus? Here no one seems to know him. Even in Nainava there were hardly ten people who knew his father's name."

The Prophet said: "Yes, I know him because just like me, he was a Prophet of God."

Adaas fell on his knees before the Prophet, kissed his hand and embraced Islam. And when Prophet Muhammad was returning to Makka from Taif. There when he was reciting Quran in Fajar prayer a group of jinns heard it, embraced Islam and spread this msg among there tribe.

.................................................. ............




\\\
In the religion of Islam, love and fear of Allah are proportional. A believer who fears the torture of Allah takes refuge in His compassion just like a child who fears his mother’s slap and takes shelter in the bosom of her. Allah states in the Qur’an that He will torment people regarding some issues.

It is in order to make them gain high positions and enter Paradise and avoid committing forbidden deeds. It is exactly like the attitude of a father who, for the sake of his child and his future, arranges a convenient place for his child who does not study in order to make him study and during his child’s upbringing period, in order that his child will not become miserable in the future who scolds and scares his child and if necessary slaps his child who is addicted to playing...


Besides, Allah informs Muslims after those torture verses that He is extremely forgiving and merciful and those who repent and correct their behaviors will be exceptional from this threat in order that they will not fall into despair.


Here are some verses concerning the issue:
“In consequence, God will reward the truthful ones for having been true to their covenant, and punish the hypocrites if He wills, or turn to them in lenience and accept their repentance (if they repent). Surely God is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.” ( The Qur’an, Al-Ahzab, 33:24)


“(As a consequence of the choice of each individual) God will punish the hypocrites, men and women, and those men and women who associate partners with God, and He will turn to the believing men and women with forgiveness (and compassion, in return for their repentance for any wrong they do). God is indeed All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.” ( The Qur’an, Al-Ahzab, 33:73)


“God does not take you to task for a slip in your oaths, but He takes you to task for what your hearts have earned (through intention). And God is All-Forgiving, All-Clement.” ( The Qur'an, Al-Baqarah, 2:225)

“Therein will they abide. Neither will their punishment be lightened, nor will they be granted any respite.”
“Save those who afterwards repent and mend their ways. Surely God is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.”(The Qur'an, Al-'Imran, 3:88-89)

“His punishment will be greater on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide in it in ignominy,”
“Except he who gives up his way in repentance and believes (without associating partners with God), and does good, righteous deeds – such are those whose (past) evil deeds God will efface and record virtuous deeds in their place (and whose faculties which enabled the evil deeds He will change into enablers of virtuous deeds). God is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.” ( The Qur'an, Al-Furqan 25:69-70)


نصراني يدعو د.ذاكر نايك لاعتناق المسيحية .. وحدوث حوار خطير مرة
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xp70sJJ7cQ

حوار شيق مع مسيحية؟ كيف ولد محمدﷺ..وتفاجئ د.ذاكر نايك؟


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1QwoceIR-8
 
Old 04-07-2017, 03:23 AM
 
204 posts, read 108,722 times
Reputation: 15

14 - The prophet peace be upon him said: (day of resurrection will not come till science disappear) [narrated by Al-Bukhari], today we can find some scholars who permit usury, accept kiss between man and woman and allow smoking in the holy month of Ramadan. Today, some TV stations let those kind of scholars to appear on air and speaks to people, isn't right that science disappears and illiteracy appears?

15 - The prophet peace be upon him said: (some people will permit alcohol and will name it by different names) {narrated by Ahmed} today, there are different names for alcohol such as beer, vodka, whisky, all of these names weren 't known at the time of the prophet, who told him this information?


لقرآن يحرض على العداوة مع اليهود كيف يكون كتاب سلام !؟ والجواب خطير جدا من د.ذاكر نايك
TGM Tube



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwbDiWzznMY



صيني متعجب من تعدد الزوجات في الاسلام رد جميل ذاكر نايك مترجم بالعربي zakir naik


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDC-6jR_Dto
 
Old 04-11-2017, 05:48 AM
 
204 posts, read 108,722 times
Reputation: 15
شاب يسأل لما لم يتغير لباس المرأة المسلمة مع مرور الزمن مقل بقية الديانات || رد عجيب د.ذاكر نايك

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc0YymrWB1s

أحمد ديدات - محمد النبى الأعظم – مترجم

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nusKinXj6qg
 
Old 04-11-2017, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Zakir Naik is a fugitive and is a wanted person by the Indian Government.
He was accused of influencing SOME Muslims to commit terror and other crimes of financial nature.
Thus you are indirectly promoting terror.
I am surprise the moderators are not doing anything about it.

Note Zakir Naik claimed he condemned terrorists but his messages are very mixed.
It is like Kim Jong Un condemning terrorists in reference to US, South Korea and their enemies.
The point is terrorists will condemn others as terrorists.
 
Old 04-12-2017, 02:49 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The point is terrorists will condemn others as terrorists.
No wonder terrorists have been condemning others as terrorists!
 
Old 04-15-2017, 05:49 AM
 
204 posts, read 108,722 times
Reputation: 15


[RIGHT][RIGHT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKWmUKDWsUw[/RIGHT][/RIGHT]

16 - The prophet peace be upon him said: (day of resurrection will not come tillyou see some great things that you didn't see before or even talked yourselves about it.) [Narrated by Ahmed], look at all of these new inventions such as internet, mobiles, TV, weapons, some diseases like AIDS and swine flu, ..... all of these are clear evidences that Mohamedis a prophet from Allah Almighty.

17 - The prophet peace be upon him said to his companions: (at the end of the time you will find humiliation, defamation and metamorphosis, they asked when and the prophet replied when you see a lot of musicinstrumentsand songstresses) [narrated by IbnMaga] .

Today, you can see the Widespreadof music all over the world and also those tens of thousands of women dancers and singers. Also, there are thousands of satellite channels that presentdancing and singing day and night. This phenomenon wasn't known at the time of the prophet, and no one ever predicted that this phenomenon may occur one day.


New Converts to Islam - June 2016 / Ramadan 1437



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14jK6XS-uxU


Jesus told me to convert to ISLAM ll NEW


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cRG4dpSHI8
 
Old 04-16-2017, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,165 posts, read 13,708,375 times
Reputation: 5545
I've been on plenty of streets and beaches, but can't say I've seen anyone "doing adultery" on any of them.

You're just being a negative Nancy, OP. Lighten up a bit.

Last edited by Joe90; 04-16-2017 at 08:59 AM..
 
Old 04-20-2017, 03:06 AM
 
204 posts, read 108,722 times
Reputation: 15
I can tell you
I have witnessed such scenes clearly day and night
In the streets and on beaches and in wait in front of cinema
I hope that you consider clearly
Do not go in the street quickly


\\\\



18 - Before Islam people used to believe that Sirius star is a god who can benefit and harm people, but the Qur'an corrected this wrong beliefand confirmed that Sirius is a star which was created by Allah Almighty who says: (And that He ( Allah) is the Lord of Sirius (the star which the pagan Arabs used to worship)) {Sūrat An-Najm-The Star-verse49}, isn'ta clear evidence that Islam is a divine religion as it let people get rid of the habit of worshiping some creatures that cause no harm or benefit.

sHe said
If you read the whole passage in its entirety, what it seems to be saying is that before Islam, people worshipped a star called Sirus, believing that it could benefit and harm people.

That's very much like early man worshipping the sun, thunder and whatever they didn't understand but awed them.

By saying that Allah is the Lord of Sirus, it's the same as saying that Allah is the Lord of all creation, be it the sun, moon, stars. Sirus is merely one of a zillion of stars, albeit the brightest in Earth's sky.

I don't think that passage is saying that Allah is the Lord or King of Evil. That would be Satan.

Rather it is saying that Allah is higher than a star, and that people should be worshipping Allah and not his creation, Sirus, a mere star.


New Converts to Islam - Jan-Feb 2016 - YouTube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmrlZ4byqUA

Why Islam? A British Converts - Journey to Islam


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r54jEP9nZsI
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top