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Old 03-20-2017, 01:41 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
[ASW: us'watun;] is best interpreted as an exemplar or model;

The reality is there is a need to reconcile the following points;
1. Muhammad is a model and exemplar, 33:21

2. Muhammad's divine duty is only to convey, remind, warn with the Quran. 34:28 and many similar verses.
It is your duty that you must take both of Allah's point into consideration.
You cannot insist on 33:21 and ignore the other.

In the above case, the Quran is the limiting factor and thus Muhammad is recommended as a model or exemplar is only restricted to whatever comply with the Quran.

The other point I highlighted is Muhammad as a human being is also vulnerable to sins. Therefore a Muslim cannot follow 100% of what Muhammad said and did.
You think that the Muslim does not care for these details
Are you not interested in them too
Muslim believes that the Koran absolute truth
Do you believe in the absolute truth that can not be debated
----------------

When you believe in a book it would be necessary to know the details
How you believe in a book and do not know the details of his teachings
Yes, the Muslim believed to be the father of Hope is licentious and deserves to be punished
Because brainwashing is in the opposite of the truth
If the father of Hope is the uncle of the Prophet Muhammad
Here on the mind that works
And also a reality Alivk
Are these details to the Muslim does not care
I think he does not care for it's lead to the questioning of his faith
This is the mind of the Muslim Aaqublh who believes he owns the only truth
Here in the discussion of these facts that are accepted by the salmon as axioms
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:46 AM
 
Location: quiet place
271 posts, read 214,167 times
Reputation: 99
Khalif, I want to apologize if there is any supposed inappropriateness use of words since this is my last comment ( Man there is nothing Personal) But just keep in mind that I can reference the hall ISLAMIC LIBRARY which approves my stance and opinion on this matter. You are going the same way Sunnah Deniers went and eventually will lead you away from the right path of 1.5 billion. Muslim


Assalamu Alekum Wa Rahmatu Allah.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:17 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Did Abo Hurairah report Camel Urine Hadith or Anas b. Malik?

How come you don't know the details of the subject that you believe in?

It is this kind of hadith that made a Saudi fill up bottles with his own urine and sold it in his shop as camel urine. That Arab did not believe in this hadith but used it to make money from other Arabs.

Saudi authorities close down shop selling camel urine drinks in Al Qunfudhah | Daily Mail Online

That is preaching one thing and doing another. It just proves that even you don't really believe this hadith. What kind of Muslim are you?

Why should I accuse Abo Hurairah when I don't even believe he reported this hadith?

This is the problem with some of the "mainstream Muslims" today; they accuse other Muslims falsely in their arrogance. Arrogance is trait of Shaytan.

How do you know that it was Abu Hurairah who reported 3000 ahadith when you don't know who reported camel urine hadith?

You were not to believe any other hadith after the Qur'aan (45:6).
Reply to the saliva medication camel urine
One of 22 Shawwal 1422 - 01/06/2002

No. Fatwa: 12472
Category: Suspicions raised about the year
-jae in modern medication camel urine, and this modern secularists on him reviled in such terms Muslims, and say how it is prescribed for you the Prophet peace be upon him medication such things, what is the proper response to them?
What anyone who believes in Allah and His Messenger, may Allah bless him and ratify and pander to what came from Allah and His Messenger, may Allah bless him and of revelation, God Almighty said: (and what was a believer and no believer if Allah and His Messenger is to have the good of the ordered) [al-ahzab: 36]
(Not your Lord, and not even with Igmuk trees believe in them, and find themselves embarrassed than I was and recognize recognition) [al-nesai: 65]
God Almighty has ordered us to take everything that came to us from the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, he said: (And whatsoever the Messenger Fajdhuh and Nhakm him Vanthua) [Hashr: 7] and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him not speak of passion Almighty said: (and speak of passion * it is only a revelation revealed) [star: 3-4]It came with him, peace be upon him in the door of medication: guidance some patients to drinking camel urine and milk, proven in Saheeh al-Bukhari and Muslim, and others, from Anas ibn Malik said: (feet Rahat of his lair and Akal the Prophet, peace be upon him , Vajtwooa city, Vhkoa to the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "if you went to the camel charity Fsharpettm from Oboualha and milk" They did, and when Shawwa resorted to the shepherds Afqatlohm, and Astaqgua camels, and Harbo Allah and His Messenger, he sent the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him in their footsteps , they took the cut off their hands, legs, and small eyes, and cast them in the sun until they died). The meaning of Ajtwooa City: hated primarily by damage to their right to them.
---------------------
These are the arguments of Muslims to prove the issue of Paul camel
The Muslims believe in the
But why reject Khalifa
---------------
If your books in which this information
So why reject my friend
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:07 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
no matter who was the narrator, the matter is being a companion who narrate speech of the prophet and meomorize Quran too, you accept the Quran but decline when it comes to the speech of the prophet.
What you can't understand in your mental blindness is that the Prophet/Messenger's duty was only to deliver the Qur'aan. Therefore, his speech as a messenger/prophet was delivering The Hadith (Al Hadith) of Allah (The Qur'aan) and not his own sayings like telling Zaid to keep his wife or to tell you to go and drink camel urine.

The difference between the speech of Messenger and speech of Muhammad is that the speech of Messenger is the Qur'aan and is the same as the Words of Allah. But the speech of Muhammad, like telling Zaid to keep his wife, is not from Allah but from Muhammad only. This is why you are to obey Allah and His messenger but it is never obey Allah and obey Muhammad.

Do you understand the difference between "Al Hadith" and "hadith"?

The Qur'aan is Al Hadith. Drinking camel urine is in hadith books only but not in Al Hadith. You have mixed up the words of Allah and words of men. That's corruption of your deen. Shaytan has made you deviate from Allah's Way as he had intended.

[15.39] He said: My Lord! Because Thou hast made life evil to me, I will certainly make (evil) fair-seeming to them on earth, and I will certainly cause them all to deviate.

[15.40] Except Thy servants from among them, the devoted ones.


Do you know what has made Muslims like you to deviate from the guidance of Allah (in the Qur'aan)?

It is camel urine and fly in your drink ahadith! This is deviation from Al Hadith (the Qur'aan).

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
let me paraphrase for you " if a companion narrates or report Quran > that is correct and he is honest BUT if he narrates Sunnah or Prophet speech, comments, directions...etc then you don't accept it and and that is a lie.
What you do not know is that "Sunnah of Prophet" was never revealed like the Qur'aan was revealed. Sunnah of the Prophet was never mentioned in the Qur'aan because it did not exist at the time as it was developed by men later on. Sunnah of the Prophet was never written down immediately as it was revealed (according to you) to the Prophet as the Qur'aan was written down. Sunnah of the Prophet was never memorized and recited by the thousands as the Qur'aan was memorized and recited by the thousands. I can keep going to tell you the massive differences in the two revelations (according to you). My definition of Sunnah of the Prophet is completely different from your definition of Sunnah of the Prophet.

The only thing that you have to keep in mind is that there are thousands of Muslims today in each Muslim majority country who recite the Qur'aan through their memory word by word exactly the same. BUT most differ with each other when it comes to the definition of Sunnah of the Prophet. I have already highlighted how wrong is your definition of Sunnah of the Prophet. It is never every act of Muhammad or every saying of Muhammad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Abo Hurayrah, narrated the fly's Hadith! now all you can say is to suspect that abo Hurairah did not narrate this story? but Millions of Muslim The I am included) believe that Abo Hurairah narrated it and believe in it.
You had believed Abo Hurairah had narrated camel urine hadith. I proved you wrong. Do you now want to move on to a dirty fly in your drink?

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
we believe Abo Hurairah in everything (Quran or Sunnah) but you are choosy personality.
You will believe any hadith after the Qur'aan even though you are not to believe any hasith after the ayat of Allah (45:6). You believe Abo Hurairah's words but not Allah's words in the Qur'aan 45:6. This is where you have gone wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
I made myself clear I believe and I am a Muslim who follow the Quran and Sunnah together not like you following my taste and wishes.
I will have my head buried in in the desert sand if I were to follow your taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
I am a Muslim who lives in Arabia and speak the tongue of the Quran, I am a Muslim who defend the Islamic Sharia even if it includes stories that seem unacceptable from Christians, Jews, Hindus or Hypocrites Muslim.
You are not defending Islamic Sharia here but diluting the Sharia with camel urine and filthy flies. Islamic Sharia is only from Allah and is only in the Qur'aan. Remember, the Deen was perfected with the last Sharia law through the Qur'aan (5:3). The rest of inventions came 200 years later for which there is no approval from Allah and His messenger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
My answer will be as yours on Quran Reporting authenticity!
You are learning now!

The Qur'aan wasn't compiled by Uthman but Abu Bakr. So your initial claim was wrong and has been proven wrong. It's good that you agree with me now. It just goes to show that you ARE learning more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
how could you know that those who copied Quran did not forget smth or alter smth ... etc. I make it IN BOLD AND GREEN 4U.
Don't you have common sense to think that when there were thousands of huffaz they could not have got anywhere with wrong copying? Even today, just one letter out in printing and the whole copy is not the accepted copy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
why? Allah in another place in the Holy Quran told us that "There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often." Chapter 33, Verse 21

Pattern means Example or Sunnah or in his lifestyle ? I know this is painful to you Klaif:/ coz you need tough brainwashing by following Quran Collectively not Selectively
Most Muslims like you would find only this verse to "see" Sunnah of the Prophet. They can find nothing else. They would forget the context of the verse and forget the specific event. It is never about Muhammad being example in everything he did or say.

You quoted just one verse with "excellent pattern", I quote two more verses from the Qur'aan each with exact same words "excellent pattern" أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ in them.

[33:21] لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ
[60:4] قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ
[60:6] لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَنْ كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ

The last two are about Prophet Ibrahim (60:4) and his followers (60:6). Why don't you say that you are following 3 Sunnahs commanded in the Qur'aan?

[60.4] Indeed, there is for you an excellent pattern أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ in Ibrahim and those with him when they said to their people: Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah; we declare ourselves to be clear of you, and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you forever until you believe in Allah alone-- but not in what Ibrahim said to his father: I would certainly ask forgiveness for you, and I do not control for you aught from Allah-- Our Lord! on Thee do we rely, and to Thee do we turn, and to Thee is the eventual coming:

[60.6] Certainly there is for you in them excellent pattern أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.

As you can see, the excellent pattern is mentioned each time with a specific event and for a specific quality to do with that event. In other words, it is contextual. If you do not understand specifics of these verses you will misuse them. These verses are not telling you to follow the sayings about camel urine drinking as the excellent pattern of conduct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Klaif, the is the last Notification

why did not answer my last questions ? I will quote it for you in the next post
I did answer it. You did not understand my answer as usual. Do you even read my posts?
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:12 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Reply to the saliva medication camel urine
One of 22 Shawwal 1422 - 01/06/2002

No. Fatwa: 12472
Category: Suspicions raised about the year
-jae in modern medication camel urine, and this modern secularists on him reviled in such terms Muslims, and say how it is prescribed for you the Prophet peace be upon him medication such things, what is the proper response to them?
What anyone who believes in Allah and His Messenger, may Allah bless him and ratify and pander to what came from Allah and His Messenger, may Allah bless him and of revelation, God Almighty said: (and what was a believer and no believer if Allah and His Messenger is to have the good of the ordered) [al-ahzab: 36]
(Not your Lord, and not even with Igmuk trees believe in them, and find themselves embarrassed than I was and recognize recognition) [al-nesai: 65]
God Almighty has ordered us to take everything that came to us from the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, he said: (And whatsoever the Messenger Fajdhuh and Nhakm him Vanthua) [Hashr: 7] and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him not speak of passion Almighty said: (and speak of passion * it is only a revelation revealed) [star: 3-4]It came with him, peace be upon him in the door of medication: guidance some patients to drinking camel urine and milk, proven in Saheeh al-Bukhari and Muslim, and others, from Anas ibn Malik said: (feet Rahat of his lair and Akal the Prophet, peace be upon him , Vajtwooa city, Vhkoa to the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "if you went to the camel charity Fsharpettm from Oboualha and milk" They did, and when Shawwa resorted to the shepherds Afqatlohm, and Astaqgua camels, and Harbo Allah and His Messenger, he sent the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him in their footsteps , they took the cut off their hands, legs, and small eyes, and cast them in the sun until they died). The meaning of Ajtwooa City: hated primarily by damage to their right to them.
---------------------
These are the arguments of Muslims to prove the issue of Paul camel
The Muslims believe in the
But why reject Khalifa
---------------
If your books in which this information
So why reject my friend
I believe in the Book of Allah. I can't stop you if you want to drink camel urine as directed in books of men. That's your choice because you like to read books of men.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:57 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Khalif, I want to apologize if there is any supposed inappropriateness use of words since this is my last comment ( Man there is nothing Personal)
I accept your apology. That was being brave on your part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
But just keep in mind that I can reference the hall ISLAMIC LIBRARY which approves my stance and opinion on this matter.
The Qur'aan is the Islamic Library in itself. Stop reading books written by men with their own "ideas". Islam is in the Qur'aan only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
You are going the same way Sunnah Deniers went and eventually will lead you away from the right path of 1.5 billion. Muslim
You are mistaken. I do not deny Sunnah. My definition of Sunnah is completely different from your definition of Sunnah.

First, Sunnah of the Prophet, as you assume, is not in the Qur'aan.

Second, Sunnah idea developed later on. Original idea was not the wrong one as it was the same as my definition of Sunnah. People changed it later on to their own liking. Many mouths made it into many definitions.

Here is my definition of Sunnah of the Prophet:

Sunnah is not remote from the Qur'aan. It is not something that is outside the Qur'aan but is intrinsically linked to the Qur'aan.

In the Qur'aan, there are many verses guiding us to do or not to do something. The Prophet is also told to do or not to do something. Examples are 33:50 (as you had quoted) and 4:3 (as I had mentioned). 33:50 applies to the Prophet and 4:3 applies to Muslims at large.

There are verses in the Qur'aan that are applicable to the Prophet as well as to Muslims at large. In other words, these verses are applicable to ALL Muslims under normal conditions ability-wise.

Now here comes the Sunnah of the Prophet that is applicable to Muslims at large too.

The way (in practice) Muhammad had complied with any command from Allah (SWT) in the Qur'aan to ALL Muslims (including the Prophet/Muhammad) is the way we are to comply with that command. If we do, we are following Sunnah of the Prophet. It is obeying Allah and His messenger as commanded in the Qur'aan.

Anything that is not commanded in the Qur'aan (such as drinking camel urine) is not part of the Sunnah of the Prophet.

So keep in mind that the Sunnah is not separate from the Qur'aan but intrinsically linked to the Qur'aan.

By the way, I have nothing to do with any sect. We are guided through the Qur'aan not to have anything to do with any sect. Muslims are one brotherhood. Sects divide them. I regard myself only Muslim. So please do not imagine that I am Qadiani, ahmadi, sunni, shia, wahabi, salafi, bahai or any other silly sect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Assalamu Alekum Wa Rahmatu Allah.
Wa alaikum assalaam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:07 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Originally Posted by resigned

Allah said in the Holy Quran, Chapter 53
"Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination(4) It is not but a revelation revealed(5)"
Khalif, is there any exception or limitation here for the credibility of what prophet Mohammad says wither in verse or in normal speech?[/quote] It is in reference to the verses of the Qur'aan only.

[34.50] Say: If I err, I err only against myself, and if I follow a right direction, it's because of what my Lord reveals to me; surely He is Hearing, Nigh.

His Lord revealed the Qur'aan to him so that he would follow the right direction. Outside this direction, he could err.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:39 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I believe in the Book of Allah. I can't stop you if you want to drink camel urine as directed in books of men. That's your choice because you like to read books of men.
I think i should send a message to the moderator in the forum
So stop verbal abuse
The truth is I drink beer
But drinking the urine of the camel came in Islamic books
It is your problem, not my problem
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Surat Al-Nur verse 11
Are you able to explain it
--------------------------

Without reference to other Islamic books
Such as ( asbab -al-nzol )
--------------------------
You say the central message to the Koran
The central message in the Koran is faith in God with His Messenger
But the paradise
Do you believe in the
As it contained in the Koran
------
The central message in the Koran is to believe in Allah and His Messenger
Do you think that Muhammad is the Messenger of God really
I am aware the usual story related to Verses 24:11-26 is regarding the slander against Ayesha. This story is from the Ahadith. The question is how true and reliable is the Ahadith?

If we do not refer to the Ahadith, then 24:11 has its own critical message.

24:11 Inna allatheena jaoo bial-ifki AAusbatun minkum la tahsaboohu sharran lakum bal huwa khayrun lakum likulli imri-in minhum ma iktasaba mina al-ithmi waallathee tawalla kibrahu minhum lahu AAathabun AAatheemun

24:11. Lo! [Allah say] they [slanderer Muslims] who spread [JYA: jāū] the slander[AFK: bil-if'ki] are a gang [ʿuṣ'batun] among you.
[You] Deem it [this sin of slander] not a bad thing for you [Muslims]; [and] say, it [this slander] is good for you.
[But] Unto every man of them [gang of slanderer] (will be paid) that which he hath earned of the sin [AThM: l-ith'mi];
and as for him among them [slanderers] who had the greater share [of the sin] therein, his [sinner] will be an awful [ʿaẓīmun] doom [ʿadhābun].
Regardless of whatever the background story, the critical message in 24:11 is slandering [AFK: bil-if'ki] is a sin [AThM: l-ith'mi].

As far as judgment day for Muslim is concern, the story and unproven scandal related to Ayesha is not important at all.
Allah will not punish Muslims if they do not know the story of scandal related to Ayesha from the Ahadith.

The main message of 24:11 is Muslims should not commit slander [AFK: bil-if'ki], otherwise they will suffer an awful [ʿaẓīmun] [b]doom [ʿadhābun]. That is the important point.

All Muslims must believe [faith] in God with His Messenger, but what is the main purpose for doing that?
The main purpose for Muslims is the guarantee [promise] they will go to Paradise and live as long as Allah grant it.

With the above, I am speaking from what Allah state in the Quran.


Personally I do not believe God [Allah] exists as real and I believe the Quran was written by humans.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:33 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
I think i should send a message to the moderator in the forum
So stop verbal abuse
The truth is I drink beer
But drinking the urine of the camel came in Islamic books
It is your problem, not my problem
The Qur'aan is the "Islamic Book" I believe in. I don't believe books of men are Islamic books.

So keep in mind when discussing Islam with me that I don't believe in the books in which is instruction for drinking camel urine. You believe them to be Islamic books. It's your problem; not mine. It is insult to me if you say that such books are my books when I don't even believe in them. I should report this insult to the moderators.
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