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Old 03-10-2017, 07:11 AM
 
Location: quiet place
271 posts, read 214,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
No.

There is no mention in the Qur'aan of "Sunnah of the prophet". The only Sunnah mentioned in the Qur'aan is the Sunnah of Allah. Therefore, Sunnah of the Prophet is a later development; an invention.

By the way, the term "Paki" is a derogatory term used by racist people only. We shouldn't be using it here in this forum.
Well, now you admitted that you don't believe in Sunnah? That disqualify you from speaking about Islam. I am sorry I wasted my time with you.

The worse is that you do not take Quraan explanation of Muslim scholars, you gonna invent something as you wish! That is what we call it ( misleading).

As regard to Paki term,?I thought it is short, so I apologize nothing personal here Khalif.

My advice to you if you accept it "stick to Muslim majority those who believe in both Quraan and Sunnah and leave other group"

Tnx
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:26 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
There is no mention in the Qur'aan of "Sunnah of the prophet". The only Sunnah mentioned in the Qur'aan is the Sunnah of Allah. Therefore, Sunnah of the Prophet is a later development; an invention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Well, now you admitted that you don't believe in Sunnah?
You are twisting my words. I never said it in those words. All I said is that "Sunnah of the Prophet" is not mentioned in the Qur'aan. If I made a false statement about the Qur'aan, why don't you prove me wrong by quoting a verse of the Qur'aan in which is mentioned "Sunnah of the Prophet"? If you can't, it is a later development and an invention.

You had stated: (a) ..."the prophet Mohammad told us through his Sunnah"... and (b) "Sunnah consists of acts , sayings and consent/ approval of the Prophet".

This is how today's Muslims are in a rot. They have left the Qur'aan and invented their own brand of "Sunnah of the Prophet" that isn't even mentioned in the Qur'aan.

Islam is the Way shown through the Qur'aan to us only by Allah. It is His Way and not Their Ways. Allah has never said that Islam is two Ways, Allah's Way (the Qur'aan) and Prophet's Way (Sunnah of the Prophet).

[6.153] And (know) that this is My Way, the right one therefore follow it, and follow not (other) ways, for they will lead you away from His Way; this He has enjoined you with that you may remain conscious (have taqwa).

Tell me, where in the Qur'aan is it mentioned that we should follow two ways; their ways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
That disqualify you from speaking about Islam. I am sorry I wasted my time with you.
I have heard this from big headed clerics before that only they are qualified to speak about Islam. Nobody is qualified to speak about Islam if they do not understand the Qur'aan properly.

I speak about what is in the Qur'aan. You follow what is not in the Qur'aan but outside the Qur'aan and invented by people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
The worse is that you do not take Quraan explanation of Muslim scholars, you gonna invent something as you wish! That is what we call it ( misleading).
You are free to call it whatever you want. I am sticking to the Qur'aan. If the "Sunnah of the Prophet" isn't even mentioned in the Qur'aan, what are the scholars explaining from?

It is a false claim that Muslims scholars are explaining this from the Qur'aan. They have invented it and falsely attributed it to the Qur'aan. The Qur'aan says:

[2.272] To make them walk in the right way is not incumbent on you, but Allah guides aright whom He pleases...

[5.99] Nothing is
(incumbent) on the messenger but to deliver (the message of the Qur'aan), and Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide.

This is why Muslims have prayed for centuries for Allah to guide them to the Straight Way (1:6). They have never prayed for Allah and the Prophet to guide them on their two ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
My advice to you if you accept it "stick to Muslim majority those who believe in both Quraan and Sunnah and leave other group"
Thank you for the advice but Allah is sufficient for me. That means the Qur'aan is the Way. You may follow two ways if you like but on the Day of Judgment the majority will not be any use to you but your own deeds.

[6.115] And the word of your Lord has been accomplished truly and justly; there is none who can change His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

[6.116] And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow but conjecture and they only lie.

[6.117] Surely your Lord-- He best knows who goes astray from His way, and He best knows those who follow the right guidance.


So if you want to stick to the majority, that's fine with me. I am sticking to the Qur'aan and the guidance in it.

Salaam
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:29 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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By the way, resigned, please do not change my statements into red. It is against the rules of the forum.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:04 PM
 
Location: quiet place
271 posts, read 214,198 times
Reputation: 99
Default Khalif

I discussed similar argument and finished before 17 years. It is baiful to teach you one by one Khalif ( you are wasting of time) . Take this on the account and enjoye it

"The Prophet’s Sunnah is the second source of Islamic sharee‘ah. The revelation came down to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with the Sunnah as it came down to him with the Qur’an. The proof of that is the words of Allah, may He be exalted (interpretation of the meaning):

“Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

It is but a revelation revealed”

[an-Najm 53:3-4].

Allah, may He be exalted, has enjoined upon the believers complete submission to the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and his hadith and rulings, to the extent that He, may He be glorified, swore by His divine self that whoever hears the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), then rejects them and does not accept them, has nothing to do with faith at all. He, may He be glorified and exalted, said (interpretation of the meaning):

“But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission”

[an-Nisa’ 4:65].

Hence there was consensus among the scholars that whoever denies that the Sunnah constitutes shar‘i evidence in general terms, or rejects a hadith of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him – knowing that it is the words of the Prophet (lettings and peace of Allah be upon him) – is a disbeliever, who has not attained even the lowest level of Islam and submission to Allah and His Messenger. "

Do not play Muslim's role & Moderator's role
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Old 03-11-2017, 02:26 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Do not play Muslim's role & Moderator's role
It was only to bring it to your notice. I did not play moderator's role or else I would have either changed the color or deleted the red colored text of yours.

If you don't want me to bring such thing into your notice, fine, it will be the moderator who will do it next time.
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Old 03-11-2017, 02:43 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
I discussed similar argument and finished before 17 years. It is baiful to teach you one by one Khalif ( you are wasting of time) . Take this on the account and enjoye it

"The Prophet’s Sunnah is the second source of Islamic sharee‘ah".
How? It isn't even mentioned in the Qur'aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
The revelation came down to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with the Sunnah as it came down to him with the Qur’an.
This is where corruption of Islam begins when it is claimed that there were two revelations to Muhammad (pbuh), the Sunnah and the Qur'aan. Funny how only the Qur'aan was written down in presence of the Messenger!

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
The proof of that is the words of Allah, may He be exalted (interpretation of the meaning):

“Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

It is but a revelation revealed”

[an-Najm 53:3-4].
Revelation revealed or revelations revealed?

The above is reference to only the revelation of the Qur'aan. No mention of revelation of the Sunnah.

[12.2] Surely We have revealed it-- an Arabic Qur'an-- that you may understand.

Where does it say in the Qur'aan that Allah revealed the Sunnah to the prophet?

[17.9] Surely this Qur'an guides to that which is most upright and gives good news to the believers who do good that they shall have a great reward.

The Qur'aan guides to that which is most upright. Where does it say that it is the Sunnah that guides to that which is most upright?

[17.106] And it is a Qur'an which We have revealed in portions so that you may read it to the people by slow degrees, and We have revealed it, revealing in portions.

Only the Qur'aan was revealed to the messenger. No mention of the Sunnah being revealed to him.

[55.1] The Beneficent God,
[55.2] Taught the Qur'an.


Allah taught the Qur'aan. No mention of Allah teaching the Sunnah.

[25.30] And the messenger cried out: O my Lord! Surely my people have treated this Qur'an as a forsaken thing.

On the Day of Judgment, the messenger is not going to say that his people had forsaken the Sunnah but the Qur'aan.

[47.24] Do they not then reflect on the Qur'an? Nay, on the hearts there are locks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Allah, may He be exalted, has enjoined upon the believers complete submission to the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and his hadith and rulings, to the extent that He, may He be glorified, swore by His divine self that whoever hears the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), then rejects them and does not accept them, has nothing to do with faith at all. He, may He be glorified and exalted, said (interpretation of the meaning):

“But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission”

[an-Nisa’ 4:65].
Still no mention of the Sunnah but only the Qur'aan.

Your reference is to the Qur'aan and not to any revelation of the Sunnah. It is also twisting of what was revealed through the Qur'aan. The Qur'aan is the Hadith of Allah. You are not to believe any other hadith after Allah's Hadith:

[45.6] These are the ayat of Allah which We recite to you with truth; then in what hadith would they believe after Allah and His ayat?

Muslims today have gone astray because they have gone against the teachings of the Qur'aan and believed other ahadith after the Qur'aan, the ayat of Allah. They have forsaken the Qur'aan and replaced it with ahadith that were never approved by Allah and His messenger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Hence there was consensus among the scholars that whoever denies that the Sunnah constitutes shar‘i evidence in general terms, or rejects a hadith of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him – knowing that it is the words of the Prophet (lettings and peace of Allah be upon him) – is a disbeliever, who has not attained even the lowest level of Islam and submission to Allah and His Messenger. "
These are the words of those who have forsaken the Qur'aan, the Hadith of Allah, and replaced it with the hadith books written by men 200 years after the revelation of the Qur'aan. You were warned in the Qur'aan not to believe any other hadith than the Hadith of Allah. The Qur'aan is the only revelation that is preserved since the messenger was still with the believers. And his duty was only to deliver the Qur'aan (the Hadith of Allah).

[13.40] And We will either let you see part of what We threaten them with or cause you to die, for only the delivery of the message is (incumbent) on you, while calling (them) to account is Our (business).

[2.272] To make them walk in the right way is not incumbent on you, but Allah guides aright whom He pleases...

Messenger's duty was only to deliver the Qur'aan as it was revealed to him. There is no mention at all of the Sunnah revealed to him. It is all (cooked by clerics) made up that the Sunnah was revealed to him. No wonder most Muslims (the hadith pushers) are in a rot today!
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:57 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,864,431 times
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Reveal false prophecy for what it is, whenever you encounter it.

Despite all claims to the contrary, Islam cannot be similar to Christianity.

Instead, the religion is closer to Babylonian idol worship and secularism.

Quote:
18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
Muhammad was not, nor was ever, a prophet. He was a politician, not a spiritualist. Sharia power is power over the material world, not the real world. He is an idolater, a man who believed the words of an "angel" who told him to spread his message by force if necessary, a bully, and a man of sin. A man who shames others and intimidates them into conversion. Who plays the victim game (the West is not guiltless, but neither deserving of its extreme treatment under Islam) then proceeds to behave as a thief and murderer.

I will make a prophecy too. The day is coming when God will end the mortal world. The day is coming when the prophets and rulers of man will lose the Mandate of Heaven. They will try to convert by the sword, they will try to rule by force of arms, only to find that swords will no longer have any power over the Believer. For the People of Heaven will no longer die, as death and life are One, but the people of the Earth alone will pass away as mortals. Then there will be a New Earth and a New Heaven without such pain and suffering, and the people of this one will be no more.
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Old 03-12-2017, 03:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
No false prophet has ever kept speaking in the name of God and survived for 23 years. Many attempts were made on his life but God protected him. He passed away only after his mission was complete. His enemies failed then, have failed for 1450 years, and will fail until they are no more.

And it is not a false prophecy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Muhammad was not, nor was ever, a prophet. He was a politician, not a spiritualist. Sharia power is power over the material world, not the real world. He is an idolater, a man who believed the words of an "angel" who told him to spread his message by force if necessary, a bully, and a man of sin. A man who shames others and intimidates them into conversion. Who plays the victim game (the West is not guiltless, but neither deserving of its extreme treatment under Islam) then proceeds to behave as a thief and murderer.
This is nothing but hate against Prophet Muhammad and Islam. It is also ignorance about Islam and the angel who brought the message to Prophet Muhammad. Lucifer/satan may be light in Christianity (2 Corinthians 11:14) and Christians as children of light (Ephesians 5:8) but Satan (Iblis) is jinn in the Qur'aan is not created from light but from fire (55:15). Therefore, no point in bringing Christian crap to Islam forum. It would be better if such crap is kept within the Christianity forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
I will make a prophecy too. The day is coming when God will end the mortal world. The day is coming when the prophets and rulers of man will lose the Mandate of Heaven. They will try to convert by the sword, they will try to rule by force of arms, only to find that swords will no longer have any power over the Believer. For the People of Heaven will no longer die, as death and life are One, but the people of the Earth alone will pass away as mortals. Then there will be a New Earth and a New Heaven without such pain and suffering, and the people of this one will be no more.
That's a copied prophecy!
It is based on prophecies in the Qur'aan.

The mandate is to be viceroy on earth (Qur'aan 2:30).
Mischief makers on earth will be taken away (Qur'aan 2:27, 7:86, 10:81, 27:14).
Fear of death will have no power over the believers (2:38, 2:112, 2:277, 6:48, 7:35, 46:13).
God will end the mortal world (55:26).
There will be a New Earth and heavens too (14:48).
People in Paradise will live forever and will never die again (64:9, 65:11).
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Old 03-12-2017, 09:46 PM
 
Location: quiet place
271 posts, read 214,198 times
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Khalif, go learn the Quranic Discourse first then talk about misuse. actually, your problem is severe; coz you know nothing and in the meanwhile, you think you know smth!

Your argument, in general, is your own and exclusively for those people like you who deny the Sunnah of prophet Mohammad (PBUH).

I said it before and I repeat it again now for the truth's sake. it is painful to start teaching Islam from 101. there are lots of Urdu speaker Muslim scholar who follow the right path of [Salaf] so try to learn from them by reading the right explanations of Quran and the semantics of Arabic language.

I hope next time you will be a better Muslim reader and more controlled before you tackle the Quran verses.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:02 PM
 
Location: quiet place
271 posts, read 214,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post


Muhammad was not, nor was ever, a prophet. He was a politician, not a spiritualist. Sharia power is power over the material world, not the real world. He is an idolater, a man who believed the words of an "angel" who told him to spread his message by force if necessary, a bully, and a man of sin. A man who shames others and intimidates them into conversion. Who plays the victim game (the West is not guiltless, but neither deserving of its extreme treatment under Islam) then proceeds to behave as a thief and murderer.
if the greatest westerners like Thomas Caryle said the truth we don't give a sh for what you think !


Thomas Caryle said in – Heros and Heros Worship

“how one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades?”
“…The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammed) are disgraceful to ourselves only…How one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades….A silent great soul, one of that .
who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world; the world’s Maker had ordered so."

George Bernard Shaw - The Genuine Islam Vol.No.8, 1936.
“I believe if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring much needed peace and happiness.
I have studied him - the man and in my opinion is far from being an anti–Christ. He must be called the Savior of Humanity.
I have prophesied about the faith of Mohammad that it would be acceptable the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”
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