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Old 03-17-2017, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
Jizya, yes was paid by religious minorities and they were exempt from military service. Muslims had to pay Zakat (similar in amount) and were required to join the military if the leader commanded.
What I gathered from the reading the Quran is the critical difference between Jizya and Zakat is the spiritual element in terms of the deen [DYN].

The root for Zakat is ZKW.
The root meaning related to ZKW is about spiritual purity.
35:18 Wala taziru waziratun wizra okhra wa-in tadAAu muthqalatun ila himliha la yuhmal minhu shay-on walaw kana tha qurba innama tunthiru allatheena yakhshawna rabbahum bialghaybi waaqamoo alssalata waman tazakka fa-innama yatazakka linafsihi wa-ila Allahi almaseeru

35:18. … ... He [the Muslim] who groweth [tazakkā; purify] (in goodness), groweth [yatazakkā' ZKW; purify] only for himself, (he cannot by his merit redeem others). Unto Allah is the journeying.
The above is not related to payment by merely a purifying process of the mind.
There are many verses in the Quran where ZKW is used in terms of purifying oneself.

Therefore the payment of zakat [ZKW] in terms of alms and contribution is also related to the spiritual drive of purifying of the deen.

98:5 Wama omiroo illa liyaAAbudoo Allaha mukhliseena lahu alddeena hunafaa wayuqeemoo alssalata wayu/too alzzakata wathalika deenu alqayyimati

98:5. And they [infidels] are ordered [by the messengers] naught else than [1] to serve [ya'budu] Allah, [2] keeping religion pure for Him, [3] as men by nature upright [hanif; Ĥunafā'a; monotheists, has integrity], and [4] to establish worship and [5] to pay the poor due [ZKW: zakat]. That is true religion [alddeena].

In most cases zakat is associated with 'worship' [SLW: aslata].
Since zakat is worship and part of the deen zakat cannot be related to payments by non-Muslims.
This is why the payment by non-Muslim cannot be Zakat [entails worship to purify] so it is called Jizya which is also imputed with a derogatory and pejorative sense.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:01 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
One thing I have to admit [as opposed to my past views] is to understand the Quran, one MUST understand at least basic principles of classical Arabic, Arabic MORPHOLGY, the tri-root system, vocabulary, basic grammar, history before and after Islam, various schools/sects of Islam, etc. I have covered the above but I am not an expert on these areas.
However these days there are tons of resources to cover any shortfall in understanding the Quran.
There are now very sophisticated resource to understand Quran Arabic words and grammar.
Note this;
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran



English Translations of the Quran
When I refer to the English Translation of the Quran, I refer to 50++ English translations to understand the variations in the translations. Some of these translators are expert in Arabic but yet they differ in their understanding of the word, meaning and context.
So being an expert Arabic is no certainty of understand Allah's intention fully!

Arabic Words
For each critical word in the verse I refer to the Quranic Arabic Concordance to understand its tri-roots and understand how it is used within the context of the various verses, the chapter the whole Quran.

Test Me!
Produce and show me one verse in the Quran that is beyond the understanding of an average English reader like me [having access to resources in the internet and library]? Proof to me that only an Arab can understand that verse?

Point is in our present age, the average person with some effort to acquire basic Quranic Arabic can understand all the verses literally and its morphological structure.
The very possible problem and dispute is understanding the context which generally do not has much relation within any language.

The ONLY authorized Islamic ayats are from Allah via Gabriel to Muhammad and no one else.
When angel Gabriel recited to Muhammad at various times obviously Muhammad knew Angel Gabriel was reciting to him in his mind.
Note Angel Gabriel did not appear to Muhammad 24 hours a day. There is no such confirmation in the Quran by Allah.
Thus the sayings and actions at other times by Muhammad when Angel Gabriel is not actively reciting in his mind cannot be from Allah.
Only those ayats with Allah-Gabriel-Muhammad connections can qualify as Allah's words and all of them are included in the Quran [complete, perfected and easy to understand].

THEREFORE, the Ahadiths (comprising Sunnah) which has no direct Allah-Gabriel-Muhammad connections cannot be regarded as directly from Allah nor carry Allah's divine authority.

It is not millions of Muslims who wrote the hadiths.
The Ahadiths were compiled from hearsays from possibly hundreds that do not has any Allah-Gabriel-Muhammad connections.
Whatever that has Allah-Gabriel-Muhammad connections are already compiled as the Quran.
These hearsays are like writings of bloggers today who will write on anything they experienced and heard from various sources. Ideas like drinking camel urine are merely folk tales and it is definitely not approved by Allah as it is not in the Quran.
Note there are lots of different view within the Ahadith between the various schools and Sunni/Shia divides.

I would not say 99.9% of Muslims are stupid per se. It is natural for the masses in the past [even now] to follow the elites [scholars, ulama, etc.] because the majority do not has the capacity to think critically.
But the critical thinking capacity has been increasing among the masses and this is why more and more Muslims are thinking critically and the result is they are inclining towards the purer words of Allah than from hearsays from ulama of the past.

I don't deny 99% of Muslims at present still need guidance but the point is the Ahadith they are relying upon cannot be attributed with any divine authority from Allah, e.g. Adulteress must be stoned to death because Allah [via Ahadith] said so! This is a NO NO!

Muslims around the world at present must review all the Ahadiths and get rid of the ones that do not comply [via aqeeda] with the Quran.

The often excuse is, how do I know how to pray, worship, and do the various rituals if I do not have the Ahadith as a guide. If you have read the Quran thoroughly you would have understand Allah do not give much weightage to external rituals and rites.



The above rituals will merely make a person a good Muslim [AMN] but a Muslim should strive [jihad] for states like muhsin [HSN], muttageen [WQY:], muKhlis [KhLS], abrar [BRR], Batil [BTL], Muslih [SLH] and other higher spiritual states to gain greater rewards in Paradise. These are best attained via the Quran.


Point is:
A person do not have to be an expert in Quranic Arabic to understand the Quran literally as there are tons of resources in the internet to assist one to understand the morphology of the Quranic verses.
There are also tons of tafsir, books and other sources of knowledge to understand the context of each verse within the paragraph, chapter and the whole Quran.
I agree with the whole post apart from one word (Batil). Batil is falsehood.

For an educated Muslim, or anyone else for that matter, it is not difficult to understand each Arabic word of any verse of the Qur'aan. Arabs do not have the license in this field. Many Arabic words can have different meanings and that's why even the Arabs can disagree with each other (the reason they wrote so many books to explain the Qur'aan as they had understood). An honest researcher would get to the heart of any word of the Qur'aan. One needs to be sincere in understanding the Qur'aan rather than have some ulterior motive to misuse the words.

Not being able to speak Arabic is not the same as not being able to understand the Qur'aan. Assalaamu alaikum or Allahu Akbar are Arabic words. Most Muslims do not speak Arabic but that does not mean that they do not understand these words of Arabic language.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:14 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What I gathered from the reading the Quran is the critical difference between Jizya and Zakat is the spiritual element in terms of the deen [DYN].

The root for Zakat is ZKW.
The root meaning related to ZKW is about spiritual purity.
35:18 Wala taziru waziratun wizra okhra wa-in tadAAu muthqalatun ila himliha la yuhmal minhu shay-on walaw kana tha qurba innama tunthiru allatheena yakhshawna rabbahum bialghaybi waaqamoo alssalata waman tazakka fa-innama yatazakka linafsihi wa-ila Allahi almaseeru

35:18. ... He [the Muslim] who groweth [tazakkā; purify] (in goodness), groweth [yatazakkā' ZKW; purify] only for himself, (he cannot by his merit redeem others). Unto Allah is the journeying.
The above is not related to payment by merely a purifying process of the mind.
There are many verses in the Quran where ZKW is used in terms of purifying oneself.

Therefore the payment of zakat [ZKW] in terms of alms and contribution is also related to the spiritual drive of purifying of the deen.

98:5 Wama omiroo illa liyaAAbudoo Allaha mukhliseena lahu alddeena hunafaa wayuqeemoo alssalata wayu/too alzzakata wathalika deenu alqayyimati

98:5. And they [infidels] are ordered [by the messengers] naught else than [1] to serve [ya'budu] Allah, [2] keeping religion pure for Him, [3] as men by nature upright [hanif; Ĥunafā'a; monotheists, has integrity], and [4] to establish worship and [5] to pay the poor due [ZKW: zakat]. That is true religion [alddeena].

In most cases zakat is associated with 'worship' [SLW: aslata].
Since zakat is worship and part of the deen zakat cannot be related to payments by non-Muslims.
This is why the payment by non-Muslim cannot be Zakat [entails worship to purify] so it is called Jizya which is also imputed with a derogatory and pejorative sense.
Zakat is to purify one's wealth. In the Qur'aan, Salat and zakat are often mentioned together. Salat purifies the mind and zakat purifies the material. What one eats must be pure if it is to be of any benefit to you. So what we use to buy to eat must be bought with pure wealth, earned halal way, and some of it used for humanity too (poor people). There is no humanity if your neighbor is hungry and you have spare food or money that you could easily give to your neighbor. There is deeper wisdom in salat and zakat for the good of humanity rather than Allah needs these things from Muslims for His own benefit.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:50 AM
 
Location: quiet place
271 posts, read 214,739 times
Reputation: 99
khalif, you are ruminating the same statements.

you should answer my question before you aske yours?

Kalif, you said that "Allah and the messenger" is one term; not two terms remote from each other! > thus, you remind me of Trinity?? you just add Jebreel the angel

Even Arabs who speak the language of Quran needed to write reference books for they know that the next generations will lose some of the traditions including language as a natural result of time factors. if this was the case with Arab, what are you doing here? you can learn and understand Quran through the explanations done by Arabs or by their student from other nations.

the same Question khalif still, why they don't resort to their own understanding of Quran everyone on his own?

You did not answer either of my questions. you are swinging from the definition of sunnah to the ability of Arab to understand Quran. Khalif you failed to as I expect and as I told you before you are a time waster.
by the way, I am not going to repeat myself cos I am not a ruminant.

khalif, you mentioned that Mohammad (PBUH) married more than 4 women and asked why if It is permissible for me " resigned" to do the same?

Answer: khalif, don't you know the basics of Islam? You claim that and you claim that you understand Quran?

O.k, CAN NOT YOU understand this verse
"O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful." Chapter 33, verse 55

Have not you ever known that the prophet has special features such as marring more than 4 and not accepting charity ...etc

khalif, either you did not absorb this verse depite your brain, tech and gadgets Or you throw dust in the eyes! please, respect the discussion and stop posting stupid questions.

Khalif, why should I waste my time & bother myself if I see you walking on the right path?

you are misled and you deny that the Sunnah is the second source of Islamic laws and yet, apposing 99% of Muslims either Arabs or non Arabs! despite you read in the Quran phrases like "follow the prophet, obey the prophet ....etc"! based on your claims, these verses should be revealed " follow the Quran only, obey the Quran only?" Wright ?


Khalif, You did not answer my last questions directly or indirectly and take this question and add it to the unanswerd ones ( how could you be so sure that the Holy Quran is correct without change or in the original shape while the Quran reached to this generation by same men whom you can not trust?
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:03 AM
 
Location: quiet place
271 posts, read 214,739 times
Reputation: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I agree with the whole post apart from one word (Batil). Batil is falsehood.

For an educated Muslim, or anyone else for that matter, it is not difficult to understand each Arabic word of any verse of the Qur'aan. Arabs do not have the license in this field. Many Arabic words can have different meanings and that's why even the Arabs can disagree with each other (the reason they wrote so many books to explain the Qur'aan as they had understood). An honest researcher would get to the heart of any word of the Qur'aan. One needs to be sincere in understanding the Qur'aan rather than have some ulterior motive to misuse the words. .
Hey educated , you did not give me the translation of this phrase ( على شحم )?

give me all meanings you can understand from this phrase,use your technology and your brain and ask a friend or ask Santa Claus. I am sure if you produce 5 meaning or even 50, you won't get the right one.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:41 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Hey educated , you did not give me the translation of this phrase ( على شحم )?

give me all meanings you can understand from this phrase,use your technology and your brain and ask a friend or ask Santa Claus. I am sure if you produce 5 meaning or even 50, you won't get the right one.
What a silly question in this Islam forum!

We are not discussing here Arabic phrases but Islam and the Qur'aan. This Arabic phrase (على شحم) does not come from the Qur'aan. Plural of شحم is in one verse of the Qur'an but not as phrase ( على شحم ).

And if even 50 meanings can't be correct then your question is silly. No wonder drinking camel urine can make some people fat according to the hadith!
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:55 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Khalif, You did not answer my last questions directly or indirectly and take this question and add it to the unanswerd ones ( how could you be so sure that the Holy Quran is correct without change or in the original shape while the Quran reached to this generation by same men whom you can not trust?
The Qur'aan verses were written down immediately they were revealed and memorized from the outset. That's why every hafiz in the world could and still can confirm the authenticity of the Qur'aan in terms of its text since it was first compiled. Otherwise, there would have been differences in the memory of these people today.

Now don't tell me that it is so because Arabs said so. It is only common sense that each hafiz in the world has the same word by word memory because the same word by word Qur'aan has existed since it was compiled and memorized.

Good enough for you?
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:09 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
khalif, you are ruminating the same statements.

you should answer my question before you aske yours?

Kalif, you said that "Allah and the messenger" is one term; not two terms remote from each other! > thus, you remind me of Trinity?? you just add Jebreel the angel

Even Arabs who speak the language of Quran needed to write reference books for they know that the next generations will lose some of the traditions including language as a natural result of time factors. if this was the case with Arab, what are you doing here? you can learn and understand Quran through the explanations done by Arabs or by their student from other nations.
I have dragged you away from the revelation "Sunnah of the Prophet" to the revelation of the Qur'aan. Why don't you now want to talk about Sunnah of the Prophet is as the Prophet acted in case of his marriages?

By not relying on the revelation of the Sunnah of the Prophet and relying only on the revelation of the Qur'aan, you have proved me correct that Islam is only in the Qur'aan and not in everything Muhammad had done or said.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:16 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
O.k, CAN NOT YOU understand this verse
"O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful." Chapter 33, verse 55
How can you discuss this when you don't know even the correct verse number?

By the way, I not only understand 33:50 but 4:3 as well.

That means Islam is in the revelation of the Qur'aan rather than in the revelation of Sunnah of the Prophet.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:19 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Have not you ever known that the prophet has special features such as marring more than 4 and not accepting charity ...etc
Then you can't follow "Sunnah of the Prophet" as these special features are only for him. It is the Qur'aan only that is for you.
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