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Old 03-17-2017, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I agree with the whole post apart from one word (Batil). Batil is falsehood.

For an educated Muslim, or anyone else for that matter, it is not difficult to understand each Arabic word of any verse of the Qur'aan. Arabs do not have the license in this field. Many Arabic words can have different meanings and that's why even the Arabs can disagree with each other (the reason they wrote so many books to explain the Qur'aan as they had understood). An honest researcher would get to the heart of any word of the Qur'aan. One needs to be sincere in understanding the Qur'aan rather than have some ulterior motive to misuse the words.

Not being able to speak Arabic is not the same as not being able to understand the Qur'aan. Assalaamu alaikum or Allahu Akbar are Arabic words. Most Muslims do not speak Arabic but that does not mean that they do not understand these words of Arabic language.
Noted and agree BTL Ba-Tay-Lam is falsehood [was looking at my uncorrected older notes]. I had intended to mean tabtil [BTL Ba-Ta-Lam].

73:8
وَاذْكُرِ اسْمَ رَبِّكَ وَتَبَتَّلْ إِلَيْهِ تَبْتِيلًا
Waothkuri isma rabbika watabattal ilayhi tabteelan
And remember (the) name (of) your Lord and devote yourself to Him (with) devotion.


It is the referent that is most critical, the reference is important but it is secondary.
"A rose by any name would smell as sweet" -Shakespeare
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Khalif, You did not answer my last questions directly or indirectly and take this question and add it to the unanswerd ones ( how could you be so sure that the Holy Quran is correct without change or in the original shape while the Quran reached to this generation by same men whom you can not trust?
If you have such views in doubting the authenticity of the Quran all Muslims are relying upon as above, you are insulting your Allah who is all-present, all-knowing and all powerful.

The most critical expectation of Islam for any Muslims is to ensure the integrity of the Quran, i.e. words from God.
The Quran condemned the Jews and Christians for corrupting [changing & making errors] in their holy text and that is why Allah sent Muhammad with the final true copy of a Perfected and Complete Quran and Allah ensured the Quran will be kept intact without changes for eternity with the following to facilitate easy memory;
54:17. And in truth We have made the Qur’an easy to remember [DhKR: lildhik'ri];

57:17. ... ... We [Allah] have made clear Our revelations [re J-Day] for you [mankind], that haply ye may understand [3QL: taʿqilūna].

43:3. Lo! We [Allah] have appointed it a Lecture in Arabic that haply ye [Arabs] may understand [3QL: taʿqilūna; ya'qilu].
Muslims over the ages to the present has gone to extraordinary lengths to prove the present Quran are the exact words of Allah as it was delivered to Muhammad [with exception differences in linguistic marks].

Now you are doubting whether the present Quran is the same as the original. With this you are making the same accusations Allah made on the Jews and Christians in corrupting their holy texts subsequently.
This is a VERY serious sins you are committing against Islam.

The Quran was written down during Muhammad't time and compiled much earlier than the Ahadith and there was a system in place to memorize the holy words of Allah to ensure its integrity.

The Ahadiths were compiled 200-300 years later and were not subjected to a memorization process at all. So on this basis how can the Ahadiths we reliable at all. At most the only validity a hadith can carry is only if it is verifiable with the Quran.

Allah also anticipated such Ahadith will arise as it has happened with the Jews and the Christians and Allah had issued warnings that Ahadith that emerge in the future and divide the Muslim community.
77:50. In what statement [HDTh; ḥadīthin], after this [Quran], will they believe?
7:185. … In what fact [HDTh; ḥadīthin] after this will they [infidels] believe?
As a Muslim you better get rid of the idea that the present Quran is to be doubted on its authenticity.

The only true Ahadith is the one from Allah, i.e. the Quran;
4:87. Allah! There is no God save Him. He gathereth you all [mankind] unto a Day of Resurrection whereof there is no doubt. Who is more true in statement [HDTh; hadithan] than Allah?


Note: The above are based on what a true Muslim should believe, personally as a non-Muslim I do agree with all of the above.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:28 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
Reputation: 204
Jewish and Christian in the Islamic state is in front of three choices
1. pay Aljdzeh
2- or -convert to Islam
3-the kill
----------
These were laws in all regions of the Islamic until the fall of the Ottoman Empire
And the emergence of modern states
So if the Islamic state, the Islamic legitimacy of this rule
It is the prevailing law
Is a Muslim in the countries that are not Muslim is subject to the same legal rules
-------
The difference between Zakat and Aljdzeh
Zakat is optional and is estimated according to the Inbox
Rich pay Zakat
The poor do not pay Zakat
But Aljdzeh mandatory
If you do not pay Aldzeah you must embrace Islam
For this reason, many turned to Islam because of this difficult punishment
---------
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
you are misled and you deny that the Sunnah is the second source of Islamic laws and yet, apposing 99% of Muslims either Arabs or non Arabs! despite you read in the Quran phrases like "follow the prophet, obey the prophet ....etc"! based on your claims, these verses should be revealed " follow the Quran only, obey the Quran only?" Wright ?
What is critical is the truth.
To resort of 99% Muslims in this case is committing the fallacy of Argumentum ad populum.

Quote:
In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
You keep ignoring verses like;
5:99. The duty of the messenger is only to convey (the message).

6:48. We send not the messengers save as bearers of good news and warners.

22:49. Say [O Muhammad]: O mankind! I am only a plain warner unto you.

16: 82. Then, if they [infidels] turn away, thy duty (O Muhammad) is but plain conveyance (of the message).
"obey or follow the Messenger" is only conditioned to what is in the Quran.
Whatever is stated and those ridiculous nonsense in the Ahadith that insult the Prophet cannot be regarded as having divine authority and they should not be obeyed or followed.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:37 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What is critical is the truth.
To resort of 99% Muslims in this case is committing the fallacy of Argumentum ad populum.



You keep ignoring verses like;
5:99. The duty of the messenger is only to convey (the message).

6:48. We send not the messengers save as bearers of good news and warners.

22:49. Say [O Muhammad]: O mankind! I am only a plain warner unto you.

16: 82. Then, if they [infidels] turn away, thy duty (O Muhammad) is but plain conveyance (of the message).
"obey or follow the Messenger" is only conditioned to what is in the Quran.
Whatever is stated and those ridiculous nonsense in the Ahadith that insult the Prophet cannot be regarded as having divine authority and they should not be obeyed or followed.
In Meccan verses Muhammad is a harbinger of a missionary
Not in Meccan verses recipe Prophet
But the recipe came the Prophet in Medina verses
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:43 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
Reputation: 204
to-kalefa
Are you able to explain the verse surat -al-masad

And rely on only the Koran
And do not use any other source to explain this Surah
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
In Meccan verses Muhammad is a harbinger of a missionary
Not in Meccan verses recipe Prophet
But the recipe came the Prophet in Medina verses
Chapter 5 and 22 are Medinan verses. The Prophet duty as ONLY to warn, convey, remind is a very general principle.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:55 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,434 times
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Some of the Medinan surat -
Include some of verses Makiya
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:54 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Noted and agree BTL Ba-Tay-Lam is falsehood [was looking at my uncorrected older notes]. I had intended to mean tabtil [BTL Ba-Ta-Lam].

73:8
وَاذْكُرِ اسْمَ رَبِّكَ وَتَبَتَّلْ إِلَيْهِ تَبْتِيلًا
Waothkuri isma rabbika watabattal ilayhi tabteelan
And remember (the) name (of) your Lord and devote yourself to Him (with) devotion.


It is the referent that is most critical, the reference is important but it is secondary.
"A rose by any name would smell as sweet" -Shakespeare
No problem! It was just a reminder. Your posts are quite well informed now and your devotion to your knowledge-gathering struggle and striving is commendable.
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Some of the Medinan surat -
Include some of verses Makiya
Yes some chapters have mixed Mecca and Medinan verses, e.g. Chapter 2, but not chapter 5 and 22.

Whether it is Mecca or Medinan can only be roughly estimated and no one can produced the precise listing for all the verses.
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