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Old 05-10-2017, 03:24 AM
 
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God created man to worship Him alone. The greatest sin is to worship idols. It is no less sinful when the worshiper intends to approach God by offering a sacrifice of another being. God does not need a lawyer or a mediator. He listens to all prayers and has a complete knowledge of everything that happens.
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Old 05-11-2017, 07:09 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jawediqbal View Post
God created man to worship Him alone. The greatest sin is to worship idols. It is no less sinful when the worshiper intends to approach God by offering a sacrifice of another being. God does not need a lawyer or a mediator. He listens to all prayers and has a complete knowledge of everything that happens.
There are five points made in your above post:

(1) God created man to worship Him alone.

(2) The greatest sin is to worship idols.

(3) It is no less sinful when the worshiper intends to approach God by offering a sacrifice of another being.

(4) God does not need a lawyer or a mediator.

(5) He listens to all prayers and has a complete knowledge of everything that happens.

Let's look at each one:

(1) God created man to worship Him alone.

God did not create man for worshiping any other god (than God). Here, "any other god" could be anything (like idol) or anyone (like human being or living animal on earth). That's the message in the Qur'aan 51:56. It does not mean that God created man for the sole purpose of His worship.

(2) The greatest sin is to worship idols.

The greatest sin is regarding anything or anyone equal to God. The act is called shirk and the one who does so is Mushrik in Arabic.

(3) It is no less sinful when the worshiper intends to approach God by offering a sacrifice of another being.

Not sure what is meant here by "the worshiper intends to approach God by offering a sacrifice of another being". I don't think Muslims intend to approach God when they sacrifice animals.

(4) God does not need a lawyer or a mediator.

True.

(5) He listens to all prayers and has a complete knowledge of everything that happens.

Yes, He hears everyone's prayer, even of the birds.

[24.41] Do you not see that Allah is He Whom do glorify all those who are in the heavens and the earth, and the (very) birds with expanded wings? He knows the prayer of each one and its glorification, and Allah is Cognizant of what they do.
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:23 AM
 
8,083 posts, read 5,285,220 times
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Why does God need anyone to worship him?
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:55 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ryu View Post
Why does God need anyone to worship him?
God does not "need" anyone to worship Him. It is the humans who need to worship Him (for their own benefit).

[35.15] O people! You are they who stand in need of God, and God is He Who is the Self-sufficient, the Praised One.
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:30 AM
 
8,083 posts, read 5,285,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
God does not "need" anyone to worship Him. It is the humans who need to worship Him (for their own benefit).

[35.15] O people! You are they who stand in need of God, and God is He Who is the Self-sufficient, the Praised One.
You stated: (1) God created man to worship Him alone.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:55 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ryu View Post
Why does God need anyone to worship him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
God does not "need" anyone to worship Him. It is the humans who need to worship Him (for their own benefit).

[35.15] O people! You are they who stand in need of God, and God is He Who is the Self-sufficient, the Praised One.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ryu View Post
You stated: (1) God created man to worship Him alone.
I didn't state that but I had commented on this statement made by the original poster.

I had stated:

"God did not create man for worshiping any other god (than God). Here, "any other god" could be anything (like idol) or anyone (like human being or living animal on earth). That's the message in the Qur'aan 51:56. It does not mean that God created man for the sole purpose of His worship."

I have never stated that God "needs" anyone to worship Him. You only assumed that God needs us to worship Him and asked why. Simple answer to your question is that God does not need anyone to worship Him. I will go even further than that; God has never said through the Qur'aan that He created man to worship Him.
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Rupert
28 posts, read 17,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
God does not "need" anyone to worship Him. It is the humans who need to worship Him (for their own benefit).

[35.15] O people! You are they who stand in need of God, and God is He Who is the Self-sufficient, the Praised One.
Quite right.
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Old 05-12-2017, 04:36 PM
 
10,522 posts, read 15,573,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ryu View Post
Why does God need anyone to worship him?

Because what is generally accepted as "god" is product of human collective thinking. Where there are two that believe into same god there is their god.
That god is what is called a thoughtform, aka egregore.
Initially, its existence is based on thoughts and wills of those who worship it. But, as faith into that paticular egregore grows, so grows its "size" and power. Egregore is a reciprocal conglomerate. It is not simply built by and from thought, mental energy but, it also influences back its builders.
Eventually it may reach size and expanse so vast that, to a certain point, it may be considered godlike.
This is why for all three Abrahamic religions, god is "a jealous god" that wants worship - it is its "food' and does not want anything else to be worshiped, as it it means either less food for it or food is being befouled.

This is said with all due respect to all the believers. Indeed, your god is a "god" and is only growing more and more powerful.

Ad hoc, egregores can be purposefully created and directed by those, who know how they operate and function. There are techniques known for eons how to control human minds with egregores.
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:08 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Because what is generally accepted as "god" is product of human collective thinking. Where there are two that believe into same god there is their god.
That god is what is called a thoughtform, aka egregore.
Initially, its existence is based on thoughts and wills of those who worship it. But, as faith into that paticular egregore grows, so grows its "size" and power. Egregore is a reciprocal conglomerate. It is not simply built by and from thought, mental energy but, it also influences back its builders.
Eventually it may reach size and expanse so vast that, to a certain point, it may be considered godlike.
This is why for all three Abrahamic religions, god is "a jealous god" that wants worship - it is its "food' and does not want anything else to be worshiped, as it it means either less food for it or food is being befouled.

This is said with all due respect to all the believers. Indeed, your god is a "god" and is only growing more and more powerful.

Ad hoc, egregores can be purposefully created and directed by those, who know how they operate and function. There are techniques known for eons how to control human minds with egregores.
This is all your thought, and nothing to do with Islam, you regard as one of the three Abrahamic religions. "The three Abrahamic religions" is also human thought; Abraham had only one religion.

In Islam, God is not a "jealous god" who wants to be worshiped. You must have been reading the Torah (Exodus and Deuteronomy) and not the Qur'aan. In Islam, God is the Beneficent and the Merciful.

[2.163] And your God is one God! There is no god but Him; He is the Beneficent, the Merciful.
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Old 07-05-2017, 02:46 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Statements like "God created man to worship Him alone", "God created man to worship Him" or "God had created man for the purpose of His worship", will not be found in the Qur'aan. These and such statements, whether in translations, hadith books or any tafsir, are statements of people and not of God.

The Qur'aan 51:56 was never meant to be understood as purpose of creation. It is not about what the man was "created for" but what the man was "not created for". The difference must be understood.

The purpose why man was created is described only in one verse of the Qur'aan (2:30). It was for the purpose of human to be khalifah (vicegerent) of Allah on earth. Worshiping Allah alone is part of the work to be done by human on earth but it is neither the only purpose of his creation nor the main purpose of his creation.

The verse 51:56 of the Qur'aan is often misunderstood. It is not about what the man was "created for" but about what the man was "not created for". The difference can be understood only on deep reflection on the verse. Reading it fast and not taking its context into account (worship of idols) will not make you understand this verse properly. Too many even ulema (scholars) have made mistake about this verse. It is our duty to ponder over the ayat of the Qur'aan and not just follow whatever is written by people if we too are not to go astray from the straight path.
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