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Old 06-03-2017, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,656 times
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20"If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21"If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property. - Exodus 21:20 (This is Yahweh speaking)

God also says in the Torah that a man shall not have relations with family members. Abraham and Sarah were brother and sister. Yahweh is the God of Israel, if he says Abraham has only one son, Sarah's son Isaac, I believe him. Ishmael was not Abrahams son according to Yahweh.

Yahweh is the God of Israel, he does not call himself Allah in the bible. I believe Allah. Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, and Jacob are mentioned together by Allah in the Quran. Only Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are mentioned together in the Bible, never once is Ishmael mentioned together with those three. I don't think Yahweh likes Ishmael, he literally calls him an ass in the bible. (He will be a wild donkey of a man. - Genesis 16:12)
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Old 06-04-2017, 02:54 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
20"If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21"If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property. - Exodus 21:20 (This is Yahweh speaking)
I don't know why you have mentioned this here as it is irrelevant to the discussion. No-one has hit a slave here with a rod or stick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
God also says in the Torah that a man shall not have relations with family members. Abraham and Sarah were brother and sister. Yahweh is the God of Israel, if he says Abraham has only one son, Sarah's son Isaac, I believe him. Ishmael was not Abrahams son according to Yahweh.
You keep repeating that Ishmael was not Abraham's son but are not quoting any passage from either the Qur'aan or the Bible that says that Ishmael was not Abraham's son. The fact is that the Bible does recognize Ishmael as Abraham's son.

Keep in mind that Sarah had given Hagar to Abraham as his wife. Ishmael was born legitimately to Hagar as her and Abraham's son. The covenant of circumcision was signed and sealed with Abraham's and Ishmael's blood. Ishmael was Abraham's seed. The whole land between wadi in Egypt and the great river the Euphrates was given to the seed of Abraham. Only the descendants of Ishmael have ever possessed that whole land. God had promised Abraham that He will make Ishmael into a great nation because he is "your" seed. There is no room to argue against that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Yahweh is the God of Israel, he does not call himself Allah in the bible.
Trying to nit-pick now?

Yahweh, Allah of Israel, calls Himself "Allah" in the Arabic Bible. You can ask any Arabic speaking Christian. They (the Arab Christians) too call Him "Allah".

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I believe Allah. Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, and Jacob are mentioned together by Allah in the Quran. Only Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are mentioned together in the Bible, never once is Ishmael mentioned together with those three.
What are you trying to suggest by that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I don't think Yahweh likes Ishmael, he literally calls him an ass in the bible. (He will be a wild donkey of a man. - Genesis 16:12)
Why did Yahweh of Israel promise to make Ishmael a great nation if Yahweh of Israel knew that Ishmael was going to be a wild donkey? Does that mean that Yahweh of Israel was used to making wild donkeys into great nations of donkeys?

I have no doubt that it is the scribes who re-write the Torah after the Babylonian captivity had called Ishmael a wild donkey because they wanted all the land for themselves. This is clearly wrong after they had called Ishmael, along with Isaac, as Abraham's sons (Genesis 25:9).

By the way, at what age was Isaac's near sacrifice event?

Where was Sarah then? Did she not stop Abraham from taking her son to the mountain because that was going to make Ishmael inherit all from Abraham?

[19.54] And mention Ishmael in the Book; surely he was truthful in (his) promise, and he was a messenger, a prophet.
وَاذْكُرْ فِي الْكِتَابِ إِسْمَاعِيلَ ۚ إِنَّهُ كَانَ صَادِقَ الْوَعْدِ وَكَانَ رَسُولًا نَبِيًّا
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Old 06-04-2017, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,656 times
Reputation: 113
No Arabic Bible calls Yahweh's "name" as Allah. Whereas In the Quran, Allah is simply the actual name of God. In every Arabic bible, the name of God is Yahweh. For the last time, the Torah is without error. Ishmael was a lesser descendant, but still somehow worthy of blessing. In the eyes of Yahweh, Ishmael lost his sonship. Isaac was the only son of Abraham. The word allah not "Allah" is just the Arabic word for a god, "The God."
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Old 06-04-2017, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,656 times
Reputation: 113
In the Quran, the actual name of Allah(God) is simply Allah. Although, it is claimed in the Quran that God has several other names. In the bible, the name of Allah(God) is Yahweh.

Yahweh does not make mistakes with his words. Issac was the only son of Abraham. Ishmael lost his sonship because he sinned by mocking others. Sarah did not like Ishmael, God agreed with Sarah. Ishmael still received a blessing because he was still a descendant of Abraham. Though, Isaac was the son Abraham loved most of all. God calls Isaac Abrahams only son for a reason.

I gave you several verses to prove my point, for some reason you're overlooking them. I'm not you, I can't control what you think. I told you what I believe, you can take it, or leave it. It's up to you.

Last edited by AlwaysByChance; 06-04-2017 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:27 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
No Arabic Bible calls Yahweh's "name" as Allah.
Have you ever read the Arabic Bible?

The word "Allah" in Arabic (for God in English) did not give birth with the revelation of the Qur'aan. It existed in Arabic before the Qur'aan. Christians in Arabia called God "Allah". It is clearly written in the Arabic Bible.

The Word Allah in the Arabic Bible

No point in you denying it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Whereas In the Quran, Allah is simply the actual name of God.
In the Qur'aan, Allah is not the actual "name" of God. You are mistaken. Allah means "The God" in Arabic. No wonder you are finding Islamic theology to be complex!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
The word allah not "Allah" is just the Arabic word for a god, "The God."
"The God" is not the same as "a god". You seem to be confused.

In Arabic, "ilah" means "god" and "allah" (al ilah = al-lah) means "The God". It is not a name.

I am a man but my name is not "man". The same is true of Allah (allah in Arabic as Arabic does not have capital letters). Allah is not a name.

[7.180] And Allah's are the best names, therefore call on Him thereby, and leave alone those who violate the sanctity of His names; they shall be recompensed for what they did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
In every Arabic bible, the name of God is Yahweh.
And what is "allah" in Arabic Bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
For the last time, the Torah is without error.
You have said it before and I have responded already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Ishmael was a lesser descendant, but still somehow worthy of blessing.
Descendants are descendants. Full stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
In the eyes of Yahweh, Ishmael lost his sonship.
Never heard such a nonsense before!

Ishmael is recognized as Abraham's son (ben) in Genesis 17 at least three times. He is not mentioned as "lesser son" even once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Isaac was the only son of Abraham.
Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian. He was a muslim. A muslim is someone who submits to God by obeying Him. Abraham did obey God. And that is the Islamic theology in a nutshell.
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,656 times
Reputation: 113
Ishmael later changed; his sins were forgiven, and he became a prophet of God.
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:04 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,277 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
In the Quran, the actual name of Allah(God) is simply Allah. Although, it is claimed in the Quran that God has several other names.
Where does it say in the Qur'aan that the actual name of God (Allah) is Allah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Yahweh does not make mistakes with his words. Issac was the only son of Abraham.
You are still your father's son even if you are seen slapping yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Ishmael lost his sonship because he sinned by mocking others.
Have you lost your sonship after you sinned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Sarah did not like Ishmael, God agreed with Sarah. Ishmael still received a blessing because he was still a descendant of Abraham.
Yes, descendant but no less a descendant as confirmed in Genesis 21:13. You deny that these are God.s words?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Though, Isaac was the son Abraham loved most of all. God calls Isaac Abrahams only son for a reason.
I don't believe that God makes such a mistake after recognizing that Ishmael is Abraham's son and descendant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I gave you several verses to prove my point, for some reason you're overlooking them. I'm not you, I can't control what you think. I told you what I believe, you can take it, or leave it. It's up to you.
It doesn't matter what you believe. Here, I am trying to get rid of your misconception of Islamic theology. Whereas your theology may depend on Isaac being the only son of Abraham, Islamic theology does not depend on Isaac not being the only son of Abraham. Islamic theology is obeying God. It does not depend on Abraham's material inheritance.
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:07 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Ishmael later changed; his sins were forgiven, and he became a prophet of God.
And son of Abraham and descendant of Abraham and the land between the wadi of Egypt and the great river Euphrates as was promised by God?
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,656 times
Reputation: 113
I'm guessing your right, when it comes to the word Allah not being one of the names of God. After all, a Muslim would know best. I'm sorry I ever thought of Allah as a living name. I will only use the living, breathing word, the greatest name of God, which is Jesus. You say allah is not a living name, I'm going to assume you understand Arabic better than me. I've learned much from you! It must be known that Allah is not a living word, or name for God. I will only call God by the living, breathing word, the name "Jesus" from now on. The name Jesus is greater than the name Yahweh too.

Thank you!
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Old 06-04-2017, 07:55 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,277 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I'm guessing your right, when it comes to the word Allah not being one of the names of God. After all, a Muslim would know best.
There is difference. God can be plural (gods). God can be feminine gender (Goddess and Goddesses). But allah in Arabic, and in Islamic theology, is always unique; One and the Only.

[112.1-4] Say: He, Allah, is One. Allah is He on Whom all depend. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And none is like Him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I'm sorry I ever thought of Allah as a living name. I will only use the living, breathing word, the greatest name of God, which is Jesus.
Allah is Ever-living but Allah is not name. Is God a name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
You say allah is not a living name, I'm going to assume you understand Arabic better than me. I've learned much from you! It must be known that Allah is not a living word, or name for God.
I think Arab Christians will help you with this better. English speaking Christians say "God" and Arab Christians say "allah". I thought I explained it to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I will only call God by the living, breathing word, the name "Jesus" from now on. The name Jesus is greater than the name Yahweh too.
The only complexity in such a twisted theology is that such a living, breathing, "Jesus" is not Ever-living but can die, give up the ghost, for a few days if crucified by the Romans.

But of course you are free to believe as you like; I am not going to force you to change your view. There is no compulsion in religion (Qur'aan 2:256).

It's always fun for me to talk to Christian believers. After all, they do believe in an Ever-living God, don't they?

Have a nice day!

Salaam
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