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Old 06-19-2017, 04:11 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
Ok Khalif. You seem to be saying that Islam can't tolerate a Jewish state such as Israel with the kind of freedom of religion it has. (eg freedom to be atheist or non practicing Jew.)
It may "seem" to you (and I understand why) but that's not what I am saying.

I didn't say the religion of "Islam" or the religion of "Judaism" can't tolerate a Jewish State such as Israel but that even the Jewish scripture prove the fact that the holy land is not for those who do not obey God. Therefore, "Judaism" does not tolerate, in reality, atheists in any State that includes the holy land. From the point of religion of "Judaism", State of Israel that includes atheists should never have been created. It is against the religion of Judaism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
So just to be clear on this-- Islam could never accept the modern Jewish state because of its freedom of religion?
Just to be clear, Islam has no problem in having Jewish people in the holy land alongside Muslims. But creating a secular State that includes the holy land is against the religion of Judaism.

There is no Muslim country that includes holy land mentioned in the Jewish scriptures. There is another holy land (sacred area) within the Saudi Arabia where Islam does not allow atheists and idol worshipers. If you allow atheists and idol worshipers in such sacred areas, you are desecrating the holy land. Only the Muslims can respect the sanctity of the holy land, not the secular State of Israel. This is also why control of the Masjid Mount (often called Temple Mount) cannot be under the control of a secular State called Israel. Even the pious practicing Jews are aware of this danger to the holy land coming from a secular State.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
This looks like an absurd diversion of the issue.

Speaking with such a group of Jews is going to make no difference to the Islamic religion. A viewpoint of certain Jews about Judaism will prove anything about Islam??
You are wrong there!

Speaking to those Jews will make you understand why you cannot have a secular State that includes the holy land. It will be desecrating the holy land when atheists, idol worshipers and God haters roam the streets in the holy land.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
No, you're deleting the historical facts that Mohammed Amin al-Husseini with the aid of the Nazis were arming Arabs in Egypt and sending out propaganda to Arabs since the end of WW1. Plus you are all missing the fact that the British had an embargo on Jews getting arms.
That's why the armed Jews had come from outside into the Palestine to force creation of the State of Israel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Everybody, Jew, Arab and Christian, was a Palestinian up to 1948. You want to about negotiations? Where the negotiations when Jordan was created as it's leader was from Saudi Arabia? Where the negotiations when Iraq was given to a Hashemite from Saudi Arabia? It's pretty clear negotiations are only required when Jews are involved.
It is the Jews who are demanding negotiations from Palestinians when they themselves did not negotiate with Palestinians when forcing creation of Israel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
The Arabs that live in Israel can travel everywhere a Jew can. It's the Jew who can't travel everywhere a Muslim can. There were no Jews in Gaza and the West Bank from 1949-1967 why?
Where did they come from after 1967 and evicted by the Israelis from the Gaza Strip later on? Perhaps they had moved into what they thought was going to be their beloved Israel after 1967. They came back when they thought, after 1967, that Israel is going to be expanded into these areas of the West Bank and Gaza.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Rewriting history again? Nearly 2 Million Jews were evicted from their homes in Muslim countries in Africa and the Middle East in the early 1950's. Muslims do not recognize that both groups can share the same land.
They had moved to Israel after its creation in 1948; the reason it was created.

There are Jews in Muslim countries even now. There were many in the Muslim countries even before Israel was created.

but the point is not about Jews and Muslims in a Muslim majority country but Jews and Muslims together in the holy land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
And you think there are no atheists in Muslim countries? They know if they say they are that it's a death sentence.
In reality, there is no death sentence on atheists in a Muslim country according to the Qur'aan as long as that atheist hasn't attacked and killed anyone elsein that country.

The above is a different issue than allowing atheists in the holy land. No atheist is being allowed in sacred areas (mainly in and around Mecca) in Saudi Arab. This prohibition for entry of atheists is not into Muslim countries but only into sacred areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Two countries out of how many in the Arab League?
You wanted Islam to accept State of Israel. People of those two countries follow Islam. Do you think they went out of Islam to recognize State of Israel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Do you not know that the leaders of HAMAS and FATAH are near billionaires?
I have heard about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
There is no reason for them to want Palestine to become a country.
Perhaps you are right to say so because they have never gone to the UNGA to ask for State of Palestine vote and acceptance of that State. We all know which billionaires had said "No" in that vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Didn't you learn anything when Arafat was outed for the billions he had outside the country and his wife was living like a queen?
That is no justification for denying right of Palestinians to a State of Palestine.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,365 posts, read 24,104,739 times
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Khalif, How can one who spends time to learn to read the Quran with understanding, yet takes no time to learn the truth in relation to Israel? And before you respond you may want to contact Woodrow in relation to my knowledge of the Quran and Islam.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
The point is, you are trying to get an approval of some sort of assurance from Islam to legit the creation of an illegal Jewish state called Israel, when your own people don't agree with its creation.


Well if that's your point, it's an absurd diversion as I mentioned.

It just doesn't matter here what a certain group of Jews thinks.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Khalif, How can one who spends time to learn to read the Quran with understanding, yet takes no time to learn the truth in relation to Israel? And before you respond you may want to contact Woodrow in relation to my knowledge of the Quran and Islam.
Pruzhany,

I do respect your knowledge about the Qur'aan.

As for "Israel", there are several "Israel". The current political and secular branded State of Israel is only one of them. And then there was a religious figure named "Israel" and kingdom called "Israel" and also the whole assembly of "Israel" that came from Egypt.

What I have been keeping in mind and explaining is creation of a secular State of Israel that is supposed to include the holy land as well as atheists should not be there according to even the Jewish scriptures. The holy land is only for those who obey God. You should know well that the holy land is to be occupied by those only who obey God. Those with Moses in the desert, who had disobeyed God, were prevented from entering the holy land. From this we must understand that the atheist should not be in the holy land and, therefore, creation of a State of Israel that includes atheists can only be outside the holy land.
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Old 06-21-2017, 02:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post

It just doesn't matter here what a certain group of Jews thinks.
why does it matter then what Muslims think?
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Old 06-21-2017, 02:25 PM
 
4,417 posts, read 1,644,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Pruzhany,

I do respect your knowledge about the Qur'aan.

As for "Israel", there are several "Israel". The current political and secular branded State of Israel is only one of them. And then there was a religious figure named "Israel" and kingdom called "Israel" and also the whole assembly of "Israel" that came from Egypt.

What I have been keeping in mind and explaining is creation of a secular State of Israel that is supposed to include the holy land as well as atheists should not be there according to even the Jewish scriptures. The holy land is only for those who obey God. You should know well that the holy land is to be occupied by those only who obey God. Those with Moses in the desert, who had disobeyed God, were prevented from entering the holy land. From this we must understand that the atheist should not be in the holy land and, therefore, creation of a State of Israel that includes atheists can only be outside the holy land.
And from what I am reading in the news, the so called "holy land occupied by the those who obey God" is littered with Russian criminal gangs who hardly have any interest in the religion of Judaism. They have turned the holy land into a Land of Pork and honey.
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,365 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Pruzhany,

I do respect your knowledge about the Qur'aan.

As for "Israel", there are several "Israel". The current political and secular branded State of Israel is only one of them. And then there was a religious figure named "Israel" and kingdom called "Israel" and also the whole assembly of "Israel" that came from Egypt.

What I have been keeping in mind and explaining is creation of a secular State of Israel that is supposed to include the holy land as well as atheists should not be there according to even the Jewish scriptures. The holy land is only for those who obey God. You should know well that the holy land is to be occupied by those only who obey God. Those with Moses in the desert, who had disobeyed God, were prevented from entering the holy land. From this we must understand that the atheist should not be in the holy land and, therefore, creation of a State of Israel that includes atheists can only be outside the holy land.
No, there are basically two Israels. One is called the State of Israel where all Israelis live in and the other is the Land of Israel which consists of around 10% of Jews who believe the Hashem should create Israel instead of Hashem working through Man to create Israel. This 10% want all the benefits of living in State of Israel yet want to put 0% into the State of Israel as they don't believe it should exist. This is called hypocrisy. The original Zionist organization from before WW1 was a mixture of many types of Jews from Europe who wanted a central home for Jews that biblically was known as Israel and Jerusalem was it's capital. Jews had already been in the region for 100's of years. In 1870 the Ottoman Empire started the change in the region by allow Jews to own land in that region. Which started the growth of agriculture in the region. What you call Atheists I call people of Jewish heritage who who were refused the ability to learn their religion. This is pretty much proven when Yiddish was created. It was created to use Hebrew letters to pronounce European words. Europeans (Ashkenazi) over time saved the lettering even though they were refused their religion. Them becoming secular over the centuries was the result. But over the same time most Jews refused to anything else but Jews. WW2 arrived and 6 Million Jews were wiped off the planet. Move up to 1948 as the State of Israel was being created, the people who believed in the land of Israel was part of them as they were one's in charge of returning the religion to those it was taken away for decades. Jerusalem was a international city upwards of 1949 where all religions where all religions were allowed. Post the Armistice of 1949 Jews and Christians were denied access. Post 1967 all religions were allowed access to it again. Israel was re-created 70 years ago and will take time to rebuild itself. To expect it to come up to speed within 70 years to be inline with the beliefs of Christians who've had 2000 years and Islam who has had 1400 years is ridiculous.
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,365 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
And from what I am reading in the news, the so called "holy land occupied by the those who obey God" is littered with Russians ... who hardly have any interest in the religion of Judaism. They have turned the holy land into a Land of Pork and honey.
Nope. Pork was already in Israel as it was eaten by Christian Arabs. Russians who were brought in from lands where religion was not allowed were Jews, but knew nothing of Jewish law. A very small percentage of the elderly Russian Jews still eat pork, but they purchase it in Christian Arab markets.
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