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Old 06-24-2017, 04:34 AM
 
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So you accept everything in the Old Testament and New Testament as being true then? Or if you reject part of the New Testament (on what grounds?) then you accept everything in the Gospels?
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
So you accept everything in the Old Testament and New Testament as being true then? Or if you reject part of the New Testament (on what grounds?) then you accept everything in the Gospels?
I accept that everything given to Moses and Jesus was true and from God. Both revelations were for the Bani Israel. The latter fine-tuned the former in term of practice.

As for actual texts, these are not the original that was destroyed during the Babylonian attack and not written down immediately when Jesus was preaching. Therefore, these documents are only reference given through someone's memory rather than word by word record kept from the outset of what was given to Moses and Jesus. Still, I accept the sayings of both Moses and Jesus as authentic in these documents. Both were commanded to say so by God.

Corruption of original never happened because the original was never kept.

The Last Testament confirms what was given to Moses and Jesus.
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:12 PM
 
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So you are largely denying the authority of the Bible then. (It contains much more than the reported words of Moses and Jesus.)

If you deny previous scripture, it allows a Muslim to protect their own religion from being contradicted by it.
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Old 06-26-2017, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
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Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
So you are largely denying the authority of the Bible then. (It contains much more than the reported words of Moses and Jesus.)

If you deny previous scripture, it allows a Muslim to protect their own religion from being contradicted by it.
Deny it? The Quran includes many parts of it by rewording it. The Quran also changes the names that so prominent figures are treated as previous prophets.
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Old 06-26-2017, 05:53 PM
 
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The Qur'aan confirms the previous revelations. Nothing new has been revealed through the Qur'aan that hasn't been revealed through the previous revelations. Therefore, previous revelations are no danger to my religion. Muslims do not deny previous revelations.

This is why I do not understand why it is Judeo-Christianity AND Islam, not Judeo-Christianity-Islam.
In their origins, those are same religions. They simply deviated from the original teaching, whatever it was. Ishamel must have had lots of grudge onto his father, to pass so much hatred onto his peoples. As every time I red Q'ran, it is dripping with hatred to Jews. Pathological, really.
Somehow it reminded me of Space Balls. The comedy. Star Wars spoof. When main characters fight with their light "shwartzes" and one says - My shwartz is longer than yours. That's about where it boils down to. Same core religions, one saying it is more righteous than the other.
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Old 06-26-2017, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
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Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
The Qur'aan confirms the previous revelations. Nothing new has been revealed through the Qur'aan that hasn't been revealed through the previous revelations. Therefore, previous revelations are no danger to my religion. Muslims do not deny previous revelations.

This is why I do not understand why it is Judeo-Christianity AND Islam, not Judeo-Christianity-Islam.
In their origins, those are same religions. They simply deviated from the original teaching, whatever it was. Ishamel must have had lots of grudge onto his father, to pass so much hatred onto his peoples. As every time I red Q'ran, it is dripping with hatred to Jews. Pathological, really.
Somehow it reminded me of Space Balls. The comedy. Star Wars spoof. When main characters fight with their light "shwartzes" and one says - My shwartz is longer than yours. That's about where it boils down to. Same core religions, one saying it is more righteous than the other.
How hard is it comprehend Abraham had a true son with his true wife Sara named Isaac. Isaac started the path to Jews. Ishmael came about from having sex with a worker/slave (hand maiden). Even though Ismael was born first he lost his status when Isaac was born. Isaac became the favorite son and Ismael became the ignored son. Psychologically abused, his hate grew and grew and got passed down through the generations. It turned into a tribal mentality where cousins were killing each other over control. Mohammad arrived on the scene to bring together those cousins with a common belief. Individual tribes started working together and formed a clan called Islam. It held for awhile but soon the Sunni-Shia split occurred and continues until today.

So, You think all siblings love each other now? Same issue now as was then.
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
So you are largely denying the authority of the Bible then. (It contains much more than the reported words of Moses and Jesus.)
Reported words of Moses and Jesus were the messages from Allah (Moses and Jesus were the messengers). The rest is neither from Allah nor delivered by the messengers. The rest have no authority. The rest is just words of ordinary men (the later scribes) who were not "messengers".

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
If you deny previous scripture, it allows a Muslim to protect their own religion from being contradicted by it.
Previous scriptures can't contradict something that came after them. What came after them confirms what came before it.

Thinking backwards is not a bright idea.

[3.3] He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Taurat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan (criterion to identify right and wrong).
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Deny it? The Quran includes many parts of it by rewording it. The Quran also changes the names that so prominent figures are treated as previous prophets.
Why do they call someone "Muslim" when it should be "Musliman", and why do they call him "Jew" when it should be "Yehudi"?

Nit-picking is not discussing Islam or the Qur'aan intelligently.
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:02 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
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Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
The Qur'aan confirms the previous revelations. Nothing new has been revealed through the Qur'aan that hasn't been revealed through the previous revelations. Therefore, previous revelations are no danger to my religion. Muslims do not deny previous revelations.

This is why I do not understand why it is Judeo-Christianity AND Islam, not Judeo-Christianity-Islam.
Simple:

Islam (obeying God) is the original and "Judeo-Christianity" invented words by people.

[3.67] Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Musliman, and he was not one of the polytheists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
[i]In their origins, those are same religions.
Correct except it should be religion rather than religions. In their origin, it is the same religion (obey God or submission to God).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
[i]They simply deviated from the original teaching, whatever it was.
Original teaching is the same; "obey God" for your salvation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
[i]Ishamel must have had lots of grudge onto his father, to pass so much hatred onto his peoples.
The hatred is the other way round. It started when Sarah became jealous and had Ishmael and his mother expelled so that Ishmael will not inherit anything and her son inherit all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
[i]As every time I red Q'ran, it is dripping with hatred to Jews. Pathological, really.
Actually you understand the Qur'aan wrongly.

[5.13] But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).


[5.8] O you who believe! Be upright for Allah, bearers of witness with justice, and let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably; act equitably, that is nearer to piety, and be conscious of Allah; surely Allah is Aware of what you do.

The Qur'aan teaches us to pardon them and not act unjustly towards them even if we hate them for their treachery.

Did you understand that teachings from the Qur'aan?
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:46 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
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Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Why do they call someone "Muslim" when it should be "Musliman", and why do they call him "Jew" when it should be "Yehudi"?

Nit-picking is not discussing Islam or the Qur'aan intelligently.
Really? Muslim is singular and is the same word as in Arabic, Musliman is the correct plural form (and not Muslims). Jew is the English word for the Hebrew word Yehudi, Yehudim is the plural form. People who speak Hebrew use the word Yehudi. It's not nit picking when things need correction and people need to be educated in the correct forms of words. Learning etymology of Arabic words is an education to learn the truth, denying it is a fools errand to hide oneself and others from the truth.
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