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Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in “Young India”, 1924:
“I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.”
IMO Islam isn't compatible with our liberal values and immigrants shouldn't be forced to endure them. I also wouldn't want their children, living here years from now, to take my rights away because they might be in the majority. I'm thinking of my right to drink alcohol, my right to free speech and saying anything I want about any religion, my right to fornicate or be homosexual without the threat of execution, or the rights of our wonderful women......you get the idea.
IMO Islam isn't compatible with our liberal values and immigrants shouldn't be forced to endure them.
If the immigrants atre being forced to endure them, "our liberal values" are not all that liberal, are that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjohnohara
I also wouldn't want their children, living here years from now, to take my rights away because they might be in the majority.
That might not happen within the next 4 centuries. You may not be even on this planet by then. NASA might shift you all to Mars by then where Muslims may not even exist there and you will have the whole place to yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjohnohara
I'm thinking of my right to drink alcohol, my right to free speech and saying anything I want about any religion, my right to fornicate or be homosexual without the threat of execution, or the rights of our wonderful women......you get the idea.
Any act of yours that has some bearing on others' rights is not your right. Freedom does not mean that you can do anything you like without regards to the interests of other individuals and the State.
I'm thinking of my right to drink alcohol, my right to free speech and saying anything I want about any religion, my right to fornicate or be homosexual without the threat of execution, or the rights of our wonderful women......you get the idea.
Any act of yours that has some bearing on others' rights is not your right. Freedom does not mean that you can do anything you like without regards to the interests of other individuals and the State.
That's quite disturbing. What jjohnohara mentioned, drinking alcohol, free speech (specifically criticizing religion), fornication, homosexuality, and women's rights, are rights recognized by the US Constitution, federal statutes, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Yet, you would advocate taking those rights away from him.
Let's examine his list in a little detail. Would you deny his right to consume alcohol?
Would you curtail his right to free speech if he chooses to criticize YOUR religion, or only if he chooses to criticize a religion that you also oppose?
What punishment would you have the state impose on him if he chooses to have sex with a person who freely chooses to have sex with him?
What sanctions do you think are appropriate for society to impose on people with same sex attractions? Death, or merely imprisonment?
What rights do you think are appropriately enforced differently for men and women? Is it a dress code? Head covering? Makeup? Driving a car? Would you impose punishment for women who do not walk 4 steps behind their husbands?
After all these are the things he mentioned, to which you replied "Any act of yours that has some bearing on others' rights is not your right. Freedom does not mean that you can do anything you like without regards to the interests of other individuals and the State." Obviously, most of the activities he mentioned involve more than one person, so I'm really curious how you will respond.
IMO Islam isn't compatible with our liberal values and immigrants shouldn't be forced to endure them. I also wouldn't want their children, living here years from now, to take my rights away because they might be in the majority. I'm thinking of my right to drink alcohol, my right to free speech and saying anything I want about any religion, my right to fornicate or be homosexual without the threat of execution, or the rights of our wonderful women......you get the idea.
I dunno. What if a majority of American citizens use their voting power to change the laws that, for example, makes fornication an offense again? What will be the position of your right to fornicate?
Recently, there was a pedophile who was convicted in a court of law in Iran, and he was hanged in the public.
I was reading the comments, and noticed that there was a majority of Americans (in the comment sections) who wanted that part of "Sharia Law" implemented in the United States.
So the idea is, democracy could act as a double edge sword. Anything could happen in the future.
I think instead of arguing, we should look into ways of living together in harmony with each other.
That's quite disturbing. What jjohnohara mentioned, drinking alcohol, free speech (specifically criticizing religion), fornication, homosexuality, and women's rights, are rights recognized by the US Constitution, federal statutes, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Yet, you would advocate taking those rights away from him.
I have not advocated that such rights should be taken away. If it is legal to do any act, I can't deny it. But the point made was that if an action of someone impacts adversely on another person is it his/her right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Let's examine his list in a little detail. Would you deny his right to consume alcohol?
No. But is it right that I pay for his liver transplant after he has burnt his liver through alcoholism.
That was the point made in my statement. As long as I am not adversely affected by such action, they have the right to drink as much alcohol as they like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Would you curtail his right to free speech if he chooses to criticize YOUR religion, or only if he chooses to criticize a religion that you also oppose?
I don't criticise any religion. Why should anyone criticise my religion if it is not adversely affecting him/her? And how far this criticism can go? Can it go as far as, "Islam is religion of terrorists so destroy it by killing all the Muslims"? How far can a free speech go?
There is no compulsion in religion. I can't force my religion on anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
What punishment would you have the state impose on him if he chooses to have sex with a person who freely chooses to have sex with him?
None. It is not going to have adverse impact on me.
On the other hand, if he is HIV positive, the other person may demand punishment for infecting him/her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
What sanctions do you think are appropriate for society to impose on people with same sex attractions? Death, or merely imprisonment?
None. I am not involved and it does not affect me. And there is no law in the Qur'an that can be used for punishing homosexuals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
What rights do you think are appropriately enforced differently for men and women?
None.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Is it a dress code? Head covering? Makeup? Driving a car?
None of that is enforced in my family. Modesty is expected in dress by both men and women but is not enforced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Would you impose punishment for women who do not walk 4 steps behind their husbands?
No. My wife walks alongside me all the time. There is no such rule, law or requirement in my religion for women to walk 4 steps behind their husbands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
After all these are the things he mentioned, to which you replied "Any act of yours that has some bearing on others' rights is not your right. Freedom does not mean that you can do anything you like without regards to the interests of other individuals and the State." Obviously, most of the activities he mentioned involve more than one person, so I'm really curious how you will respond.
My point was to do with rights of others affected adversely by a person's actions. It wasn't to curtail someone's right to his action if no non-participant is adversely affected. And it wasn't to advocate breaking any law.
Not really worried. Anyway a lot of muslims are only muslim in name only and not really practising. So it is uncertain that if Islam is really increasing.
I came across this article :Islam: The world's fastest growing religion - BBC News
This isn't a hate thread on Islam or any other religion. I am all for equal rights and i like how we are distancing from an androcentrism culture, but it does worry me since it is such a radical religion...
Should we be worried about the rampant growth of any religion? Is the western world terrified by the spread of Christianity or Mormonism>?
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