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Old 12-29-2017, 12:34 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
This just isn't how Islam understood itself historically.
Of course it is misunderstood historically by the non-muslims!

To understand Islam properly, one must take into account the verses of the Qur'an.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
Islam involves aggressive war, as well as defensive war.
Define "aggressive war" and "defensive war" and you will find no verse in the Qur'an that is "aggressive jihad".

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
It's great if you want to interpret it peacefully, but there is enough evidence from the quran etc, and how Muslims have behaved going back centuries to the original Muslims (I mean Muhammad of course -- I'm not using a definition of "Muslim" as anyone who "submits to God") , to see it very differently.
All you have to do is to find even one verse in the Qur'an that is aggressive "jihad" against peaceful people of any religion or of no religion. You won't find one.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:23 AM
 
226 posts, read 123,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Of course it is misunderstood historically by the non-muslims!

To understand Islam properly, one must take into account the verses of the Qur'an.

Define "aggressive war" and "defensive war" and you will find no verse in the Qur'an that is "aggressive jihad".

All you have to do is to find even one verse in the Qur'an that is aggressive "jihad" against peaceful people of any religion or of no religion. You won't find one.
But Muslims historically *did find* Quran verses to build a doctrine of aggressive warfare. You can think they were wrong to go out waging jihad, but historically that was how Muslims commonly behaved and understood their religion. And of course, still today, some Muslims view Islam as requiring domination of the "infidels".
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:43 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
But Muslims historically *did find* Quran verses to build a doctrine of aggressive warfare.
Which verses?
In context, there is no verse in the Qur'an that commands aggressive warfare on peaceful people of any religion or of no religion. Muslims are not commanded to initiate aggressive warfare. In fact, it is effectively forbidden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
You can think they were wrong to go out waging jihad, but historically that was how Muslims commonly behaved and understood their religion.
Jihad is always defensive; it is forced upon Muslims. It is not warfare from Muslims. Muslims can't wage it upon others. The word for fighting during warfare is "jahad" and not "jihad". People should understand this fact and not become political programmed robots churning out the word "jihad" as the politicians do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
And of course, still today, some Muslims view Islam as requiring domination of the "infidels".
Why do you believe "some" and not "most" Muslims?

The Qur'an teaches us that if "anyone" (including non-muslim) wants to live in peace with us, we too should live in peace with him/her.

There is no compulsion in religion. We can't force our religion upon others and others can't force their religion upon us. Relationship of humanity comes first. We are humans first and the humanity must be upheld and not compromised because of any religion.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:15 PM
 
1,328 posts, read 1,114,710 times
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I don't think Islam is necessarily a "radical religion" but I definitely am concerned about certain modern trends within many strands of Islam around the world and how they relate to current levels of repression, terrorism/violence in general,and civil wars in a number of countries (which are mostly Muslim-majority countries, for what it's worth...). Though we do have to keep in mind that "the growth of Islam worldwide" is an incredibly broad and complex phenomenon that is related but not identical to all sorts of other economic, political and geopolitical, social, cultural, and demographic issues around the world. We're talking about BILLIONS of people spread across every continent except Antarctica (are there any Muslim scientists working there? ).

I also think it's undeniable that this issue, or set of issues, has been incredibly divisive politically, socially, and culturally within the "Western world", regardless of your perspective. And it's also caused a civil war (literally in some cases, figuratively in many others) within the Islamic world itself! Those two things, plus the obvious mutual suspicions, prejudice, misunderstandings, mistrust, fear, anger, and yes, hatred between a disturbing number of Muslims and a disturbing number of others in the current era, all are indeed cause for worry.

Though let's be clear, this is far from the only important issue in the world. But it definitely is an incredibly tough, controversial, and sensitive issue that we simply cannot ignore, regardless of who you are or what you believe...
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