U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-06-2017, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,099,835 times
Reputation: 8869

Advertisements

This thread is for positive links and discussions in relation to the Hajj starting at the end of August.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-06-2017, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,099,835 times
Reputation: 8869
Signboards in five languages installed in Prophet?s Mosque - Saudi Gazette
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 02:19 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,037,948 times
Reputation: 289
There are three million people in Mecca at the start and the end of hajj days. All have to shift from Mecca to Mina on the first day. Many walk but others had to use buses. The same shifting takes place from Mina to Arafat in the morning on the second day and in the evening from Arafat to Muzdalifah within a few short hours; a massive task for over 50,000 coordinated buses.

The link below is about the new, now completed, metro system to shift the hajjaj more safely and quickly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Mas..._Southern_Line
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 06:05 PM
 
4,417 posts, read 1,643,607 times
Reputation: 1533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
There are three million people in Mecca at the start and the end of hajj days. All have to shift from Mecca to Mina on the first day. Many walk but others had to use buses. The same shifting takes place from Mina to Arafat in the morning on the second day and in the evening from Arafat to Muzdalifah within a few short hours; a massive task for over 50,000 coordinated buses.

The link below is about the new, now completed, metro system to shift the hajjaj more safely and quickly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Mas..._Southern_Line
This is my personal opinion and I could be wrong but I think there two angles to look at it.

On one hand, the number of Hujaj keeps on growing every year, so salute and appreciation to Saudi management for taking on this enormously huge task every year - truly commendable!

And on the hand, some factors of business and money making schemes have diluted the spirit out of Hajj.

In older times folks used to walk for months to reach Makkah - there were hardly any facilities, so performing hajj required A LOT of effort - and perhaps that's why it effected their soul and got them the spiritual elevation.

These days, haji has become more like a vacation package for some people. They travel in first class - Business class airplanes - they stay in five star hotels where the lobby opens in haram so they don't have to step outside their hotels to pray salaat in congregation - there are large buffet meals in A/C and Internet equipped tents in Mina, people eat a lot more than what they should and hence can't resist long hours of sleep, folks take selfies with Kaba in their back and post it on Facebook - It's as if Haij has become a fashion for many people. Perhaps that's why Hajj has no effect on our hearts and our souls these days.

I personally feel that one should try to strike a fair balance in this journey and purposely leave some area where some effort is done to complete the hajj - Haij is not about luxuries but it's a personal journey where we should live in a minimalistic life style - eat less, sleep less, do more worship, forgive others and beg for your own fogivenss from Allah - This is a 100% pvt matter between God and man - it's NOT for Facebook.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2017, 05:41 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,037,948 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
This is my personal opinion and I could be wrong but I think there two angles to look at it.
Yes, you are quite correct, there are two angles to see the event, spiritual angle and worldly/material angle. Many benefit from the spiritual effect yet others use it as business, worldly and material benefit.

Spiritual benefit should be the only aim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
On one hand, the number of Hujaj keeps on growing every year, so salute and appreciation to Saudi management for taking on this enormously huge task every year - truly commendable!
Taking the enormous task into account, Saudis are doing whatever they can but they have the resources and economic benefit from everyone who comes for hajj. Most hajjaj spend over 1,000 Riyal each whilst in Mecca and Madina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
And on the hand, some factors of business and money making schemes have diluted the spirit out of Hajj.
It depends on each person's intention. Some come back with their personalities transformed yet it has no effect on others. The latter go there just for the status. This is why it is often thought that not everyone's hajj is accepted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
In older times folks used to walk for months to reach Makkah - there were hardly any facilities, so performing hajj required A LOT of effort - and perhaps that's why it effected their soul and got them the spiritual elevation.
Yes, if one lives in luxuries s/he is not going to know much about the hardship of how the companions had been bearing the journey. Feelings of walking in their footsteps cannot be the same as travelling even in buses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
These days, haji has become more like a vacation package for some people. They travel in first class - Business class airplanes - they stay in five star hotels where the lobby opens in haram so they don't have to step outside their hotels to pray salaat in congregation - there are large buffet meals in A/C and Internet equipped tents in Mina, people eat a lot more than what they should and hence can't resist long hours of sleep, folks take selfies with Kaba in their back and post it on Facebook - It's as if Haij has become a fashion for many people. Perhaps that's why Hajj has no effect on our hearts and our souls these days.
Correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I personally feel that one should try to strike a fair balance in this journey and purposely leave some area where some effort is done to complete the hajj - Haij is not about luxuries but it's a personal journey where we should live in a minimalistic life style - eat less, sleep less, do more worship, forgive others and beg for your own fogivenss from Allah - This is a 100% pvt matter between God and man - it's NOT for Facebook.
Of course!

Each case is different. Some can walk, and they should walk. Others have no choice but take the transport due to their health or disability. The same goes for the accommodation. Poor accommodations used to make people ill. I had to sleep on the floor in a room with 20 others in 2000. The guy next to me was coughing about 2ft from my face. Eventually I too became ill. As the hajj days were at the end of my journey to Saudia, it was very tough during the 5 days in Mina, Arafat and Muzdalifah. The next time, when I had to take my daughter with me for her hajj journey, we had beds in the hotel rooms this time and only 6 people in each room. I didn't get ill this time and was able to walk from Mina to Mecca after the final pelting. It was wonderful feeling during that walk.

But of course it is a lot more than walks and accommodations. It is about transformation of one's personality so that one behaves as a good human being after the hajj journey. If one hasn't changed for the better, one hasn't benefited from hajj.

One also brings all sort of memories from the hajj journey. One African guy had shoved me hard when he passed by me but I had to keep my patience. Another lady in an Iranian group of women doing tawaf had punched me in the back because I happened to be in her way. I just carried on as if nothing had happened. I didn't even turn back to look at her face. On the other hand my daughter met an Iranian lady with a toddler on the top floor (roof) of Masjid-al-Haram. They began to talk in English but the lady wasn't used to English. In the end, she offered a gift to my daughter and said "yadgar". My daughter understood the word "yadgar" and accepted it. She still remembers the feeling between the two even if one couldn't speak English well and the other couldn't understand Farsi well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2017, 01:50 PM
 
4,417 posts, read 1,643,607 times
Reputation: 1533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post

One African guy had shoved me hard when he passed by me but I had to keep my patience. Another lady in an Iranian group of women doing tawaf had punched me in the back because I happened to be in her way. I just carried on as if nothing had happened. I didn't even turn back to look at her face.
Actually this is exactly what it is. Almost every gets their tolerance tested during hajj.

In my personal observation, if you look at the life our prophet (saw), his message was monotheism; and the lesson from his life is "tolerance", "forgiveness" and "Generosity" - We took the message but we hardly ever learned the lesson from his (saw) life.

I usually notice a common theme in sermons in Friday prayers.
There is a super sharp focus is on "ibadaats", lots of incentives to pray extra Naffal and recite Quran, and Tahajjud and dua --- which is all good and valid .... However, there seems to be a severe lack of striking a balance.

Our Imams don't tells how to actually live our daily life as per Islamic doctrine.

I don't remember hearing an Imam telling people to forgive those who have done injustice to you EVEN though you have power over them. Just forgive them for the sake of Allah.

Or a speaker telling people to learn tolerance in the light of Surah Al Asr (I read somewhere that instead of the entire Quran, only if this surah alone was revealed, it would have been enough to guide the entire humanity to make it)

I mean look at the two greatest examples.
He (saw) is in prostration (sajda) and they put camel guts on top of him.
What does he (saw) say when he gets up? "Find them and kill them because they have hurt my honor"???
NO! He (saw) practices tolerance.

Look at the incident of Taif.
What does he (saw) say to the angel? Destroy these people?
NO! Tolerance!.

Where are these reminders in our lives today? No where. Everyone seems to have forgotten the lesson - actually, many of us never learned it in the first place.

Quran talks about likable people by Allah who pay-off the debt of another person. I NEVER heard any Imam or speaker telling us to find out anyone in your family, friends etc who is unable to pay their debts off, and see if you can help pay it off?


And there is another common theme in our sermons, "hell and fire" - which is also part of our faith, and there is no question about it. This must be reminded to us as well; however, where is the message of "Hope"?

Islam is about Hope. You try your best effort, and hope for the best. If you commit a sin, not only repent and promise yourself not to repeat it, but also do an equal or better good-deed, and hope for the best.

Anyway, this is gonna go get off topic but lets hope that Hajj serves it's true purpose to all those who take this journey. Ameen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2017, 07:12 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,037,948 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Actually this is exactly what it is. Almost every gets their tolerance tested during hajj.
Actually the hajj, like other such actions, is one of the training grounds for a believer to become a good human being. Patience, tolerance and humbleness are traits of a good human being. One is really tested during the hajj journey and particularly when one enters the state of irhaam when even certain allowances become forbidden. That’s when one’s patience is tested greatly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
In my personal observation, if you look at the life our prophet (saw), his message was monotheism; and the lesson from his life is "tolerance", "forgiveness" and "Generosity" - We took the message but we hardly ever learned the lesson from his (saw) life.
It’s because our knowledge even about the message is found to be wanting. We read but don’t understand. We read but don’t ponder over the verses. Our prophet (pbuh) did understand the message from Allah that he had delivered. His life was reflection of the guidance in that message. Therefore it was the message that had come first before the prophet had acted upon it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I usually notice a common theme in sermons in Friday prayers.
There is a super sharp focus is on "ibadaats", lots of incentives to pray extra Naffal and recite Quran, and Tahajjud and dua --- which is all good and valid .... However, there seems to be a severe lack of striking a balance.
Actually this is where the Friday sermons lack the effect that these sermons should create. These sermons were to guide the community and solve the community problems. Masajid were supposed to be community centres where not only one prayed but received help towards solving any problem one had in his/her life. Too much of the hadith stuff and not enough of the real message (the Qur’aan) is also a big problem today. The imams are missing the forest looking for a tree (often a political tree).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Our Imams don't tells how to actually live our daily life as per Islamic doctrine.
One of the main reasons that many Muslims do not live their lives as per Islamic guidance is that they know very little about true Islamic guidance. They have been led by imams most of whom are third class unqualified imams. I usually call them (conservatively) “Number 2 imams”. I do that for those who are ignorant about the Qur’aanic teachings about our deen. They are almost entirely ahadith churners (“Allah will not forgive you if you don’t have beard”) and know very little about the contents of the Qur’aan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I don't remember hearing an Imam telling people to forgive those who have done injustice to you EVEN though you have power over them. Just forgive them for the sake of Allah.
It’s because they do not teach with the Qur’aan in mind but with books written by other men in mind. Without patience and courage one is not going to forgive someone who has done injustice to you. During hajj, one must have patience and forgive someone who has just trampled you. One has no choice but to learn to do so. This is why I call it a training ground for us to become better human beings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Or a speaker telling people to learn tolerance in the light of Surah Al Asr (I read somewhere that instead of the entire Quran, only if this surah alone was revealed, it would have been enough to guide the entire humanity to make it)
Yes, the third (last) verse is quite telling; …”exhort one another to patience”.

[42.37] And those who shun the great sins and indecencies, and whenever they are angry they forgive.
[42.43] And whoever is patient and forgiving, these most surely are actions due to courage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I mean look at the two greatest examples.
He (saw) is in prostration (sajda) and they put camel guts on top of him.
What does he (saw) say when he gets up? "Find them and kill them because they have hurt my honor"???
NO! He (saw) practices tolerance.
There are many other such examples to learn from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Look at the incident of Taif.
What does he (saw) say to the angel? Destroy these people?
NO! Tolerance!.
Of course he wasn’t sent to destroy or ask for destruction but as a mercy to the worlds. The same had happened at Uhad when the prophet had wished not for their destruction but that they would learn. And finally forgiveness after returning home to Makkah. He had forgiven them all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Where are these reminders in our lives today? No where. Everyone seems to have forgotten the lesson - actually, many of us never learned it in the first place.
It’s because they never learnt them from the Qur’aan. The Qur’aan, without doubt, is the best Hadith but how many of us even know this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Quran talks about likable people by Allah who pay-off the debt of another person. I NEVER heard any Imam or speaker telling us to find out anyone in your family, friends etc who is unable to pay their debts off, and see if you can help pay it off?
One problem could be that today there would be too many such people around you asking if you could pay off their debt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
And there is another common theme in our sermons, "hell and fire" - which is also part of our faith, and there is no question about it. This must be reminded to us as well; however, where is the message of "Hope"?
They have twisted the message about “hope”. It has been changed to sunnah rather than hope for mercy of Allah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Islam is about Hope. You try your best effort, and hope for the best. If you commit a sin, not only repent and promise yourself not to repeat it, but also do an equal or better good-deed, and hope for the best.
One needs to be strong in Eeman not to be hopeless.

[41.49] Man is never tired of praying for good, and if evil touch him, then he is despairing, hopeless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Anyway, this is gonna go get off topic but lets hope that Hajj serves it's true purpose to all those who take this journey. Ameen.
Ameen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top