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I know that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet but believe that Christianity and its scriptures are corrupted and present a false version of who Jesus was. I was wondering if you feel that there is specific point in time that Christianity (or certain versions of it) went from the correct path to reach salvation but then fell away towards apostasy? If you were alive between Muhammad and Jesus (say the year 400 CE) and you wanted to join the group that best served God what group would you join? Eastern Christianity, Catholic Church, Judaism, etc? Also, if you were alive before Jesus would you have to have been a religious Jew to best please God?
I know that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet but believe that Christianity and its scriptures are corrupted and present a false version of who Jesus was. I was wondering if you feel that there is specific point in time that Christianity (or certain versions of it) went from the correct path to reach salvation but then fell away towards apostasy? If you were alive between Muhammad and Jesus (say the year 400 CE) and you wanted to join the group that best served God what group would you join? Eastern Christianity, Catholic Church, Judaism, etc? Also, if you were alive before Jesus would you have to have been a religious Jew to best please God?
To the first part of your post.
Islamic faith is incomplete without believing in Jesus.
Islam believes that every prophet had one core message to their nation and to all humanity - and that message has always been the same, Monotheism! - "Worship ONE God".
And every nation will be judged by the message and guidance brought to them by their prophet. So all mankind who lived and died before Jesus are NOT in hell. They will go through a judgement as per the message brought to them by their prophet.
The core Islamic belief in Jesus is as follow.
1 - Miraculous birth of Jesus having no father. That, he is the son of Mary, and Mary is a virgin, giving birth to Jesus.
2 - Jesus spoke as an infant, to the people, telling who he was, and what his message was, and his mission, as well.
3 - Jesus performed miracles of curing the blind, the sick, the lepers etc, and even giving life back to someone who had died.
4 - Bible was revealed to Jesus.
Muslims believe in Jesus as the Word, as the Christ, as the miracle birth, as the prophet, and as the one who will return in the last days as Messiah.
Quran talks about Jesus, about 500% times more than Muhammad (saw)
And then Quran also places Mary on the highest echelon of humanity among females.
Mary is THE ONLY female in entire Quran who is mentioned by her name. No other female is mentioned by her name in Quran. Not even the mother of Prophet Muhammad (saw)
There is also a chapter in Quran that is named after Mary.
To the second part of your post
I think not only Muslims but a few non-Muslim historians and scholars are of the same opinion.
It looks like it had started quite early.
I know that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet but believe that Christianity and its scriptures are corrupted and present a false version of who Jesus was.
That is not the correct belief of Muslims. The Qur'an does not say that Christian scriptures are corrupted but that Christians have (a) neglected a portion of what they were reminded of and (b) they have split up into sects even though they were commanded to stay united and not become various sects.
Muslims believe that Jesus was given Injeel (Evangel?). Therefore, it is preaching of Jesus that is not a separate book but the same book. Nothing was written down during the preaching of Jesus.
[23.53] But they cut off their religion among themselves into sects, each party rejoicing in that which is with them.
[5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata
I was wondering if you feel that there is specific point in time that Christianity (or certain versions of it) went from the correct path to reach salvation but then fell away towards apostasy?
Apostasy would be no belief in God. Christians do believe in God but some of them, particularly the Catholics, have turned God into three parts and regard the whole as One. Father is God, Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, each separate person but One person. But then worshiping the Father and the Son but not the Holy Spirit. This is where the split came.
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata
If you were alive between Muhammad and Jesus (say the year 400 CE) and you wanted to join the group that best served God what group would you join?
Quite likely Judaism as it was still monotheism. Jesus wasn't trying to bring a new religion but reforming the existing religious practices so that one could best serve God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata
Also, if you were alive before Jesus would you have to have been a religious Jew to best please God?
That is not the correct belief of Muslims. The Qur'an does not say that Christian scriptures are corrupted but that Christians have (a) neglected a portion of what they were reminded of and (b) they have split up into sects even though they were commanded to stay united and not become various sects.
Muslims believe that Jesus was given Injeel (Evangel?). Therefore, it is preaching of Jesus that is not a separate book but the same book. Nothing was written down during the preaching of Jesus.
[23.53] But they cut off their religion among themselves into sects, each party rejoicing in that which is with them.
[5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did.
Apostasy would be no belief in God. Christians do believe in God but some of them, particularly the Catholics, have turned God into three parts and regard the whole as One. Father is God, Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, each separate person but One person. But then worshiping the Father and the Son but not the Holy Spirit. This is where the split came.
None.
Quite likely Judaism as it was still monotheism. Jesus wasn't trying to bring a new religion but reforming the existing religious practices so that one could best serve God.
Yes.
That's not what apostasy means. There could be apostates who no longer in believe in God, but there are also apostates who believe in a different God, or Gods, - and all are apostates relative to a religion they previously believed in. Someone, for example, who has been an atheist since they were first conscious of being able to be would not be an apostate.
That's not what apostasy means. There could be apostates who no longer in believe in God, but there are also apostates who believe in a different God, or Gods, - and all are apostates relative to a religion they previously believed in. Someone, for example, who has been an atheist since they were first conscious of being able to be would not be an apostate.
I stand corrected!
I did not put it clearly. Atheists in all their adult life are not really apostates but non-believers.
Apostates who leave one religion to go to another religion could be regarded as apostates by the previous religion's adherents. As long as they stay peaceful towards the previous religion and its adherent, it is acceptable as there is no compulsion in religion.
In my book (personal view), an apostate from Islam is someone who leaves Islam and then attacks Islam and attacks Muslims both physically and verbally.
The former apostates are not a problem but the latter are.
this to me is a good question
Christ was never what the church portrays Him as
it was the Son of Man not the Son of God
He was a gnostic thinker not one to give alms to any Judaic doctrine
although He understood quite alot of it Kabbalah included
but unlike the Jews He wanted to teach everyone He had no bias
Christians seem to think by worshiping a dying weak man on a piece of s h i t tim wood
this will somehow absolve them of all their sins as well as doing no works
yet Christ is not some dying feeble little man honestly I do not think the Jews would just go up to Him and capture Him like some slave they were actually terrified of Him like they are terrified of Muhammad
Muhammad however speaks of doing works completely submitting to the divine ascetics
Christ was more like this than what is said of Him vaguely in the Gospels
the church took it upon themselves to remove all the gnostic material from the Bible this is unacceptable
if one reads the gnostic material Christ is very different and His teachings become your teachings
I notice in society today alot of people hate Muhammad and stereotype Muslims without even knowing the rich history of Arabia
I used to be like that but I humbled myself and say let me look at the Quran and the Words of Allah and when I do this I begin to understand that Muhammad was truly a prophet of the Almighty GOD
GOD has really no son for to beget is to die Crowley even says this
rather within all of us in the divine nous the divine mind is that true image of GOD it has not a child not in the mortal sense
you could say metaphorically a child is like the phrasing of a Word into an individual sentence that would make more sense
this to me is a good question
Christ was never what the church portrays Him as
it was the Son of Man not the Son of God
Christians seem to think by worshiping a dying weak man on a piece of s h i t tim wood
this will somehow absolve them of all their sins as well as doing no works
GOD has really no son for to beget is to die Crowley even says this
I find Crawley might say God has no son...... but I find Revelation 1:5; 3:14 B says otherwise.
The pre-human heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
' firstborn ' as Colossians 1:15 says.
Psalm 90:2 teaches God had No beginning being from everlasting.
So, only God was before the beginning, meaning Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
How the ' church ' portrays Jesus is Not how the Bible portrays Jesus, so false clergy being wrong does Not make Scripture as wrong. And genuine Christians do Not worship a dying weak man on a stick of wood. 2nd Corinthians 5:7 says Christians walk by faith and Not by sight ( sighted things).
James 2:26 is plain that faith without works is dead.
A person must ' repent ' so as Not to ' perish ' ( be destroyed ) according to 2nd Peter 3:9.
Jesus gave Christians a ' spiritual work ' to do at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 to spread the good news message of Daniel 2:44 all over the world. We are at that ' final phase ' of that spiritual work because modern technology had now made rapid Bible translation possible so that people even in remote areas of Earth can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
I know that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet but believe that Christianity and its scriptures are corrupted and present a false version of who Jesus was.
We don't believe the Scriptures present a "false version" of Jesus.
Muslims just don't accept the divinity of Jesus so the interpretation of some verses by some christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata
I was wondering if you feel that there is specific point in time that Christianity (or certain versions of it) went from the correct path to reach salvation but then fell away towards apostasy?
Not apostasy but a form of polytheism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata
If you were alive between Muhammad and Jesus (say the year 400 CE) and you wanted to join the group that best served God what group would you join? Eastern Christianity, Catholic Church, Judaism, etc?
I guess the best group at that time was the Nazarenes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata
Also, if you were alive before Jesus would you have to have been a religious Jew to best please God?
A jew or at least a hanafi. This depends if the message (religion) have reached the people.
Generally if Christianity kept as Jesus preached it then there is no point in sending another Prophet (Mohammad) or ,in other words, revealing another scripture!
However all heaven creeds call sons of Adam to worship God Allah alone (monotheism) .
Try to apply this criterion on Christianity and you get the answer for avoiding Christianity.
I never understood why that Muslims hold to the idea that just because Mohammad is the very last prophet to come - why then does this mean that Muslims do not need to preserve the Torah and Gospels that the Quran declared that existed with Mohammad and the Muslims at His time.
Why did Muslims not preserve a single gospel or Old Testament scripture ?
Why did Muslims not translate a single gospel or Old Testament scripture ?
Why did Muslims not place the Torah and gospels that the Quran mentions as "so vitally important into the body of the Quran ? Why are they thrown away or lost ? if Gospels and Torah or any scriptures existed that confirmed the message of the Quran.
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