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Old 03-17-2008, 11:54 AM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,500,702 times
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JerZ

You statement has some contradictions in it

Quote:
Now the same is happening with Islam, though granted the poster doesn't in fact have first-hand knowledge. But the fact is he was jumped on before anyone even knew what his credentials he had on the subject. He was IMMEDIATELY asked exactly what qualified him.
So, first you say he was jumped on before people anyone knew his credentials. Then you say "he was IMMEDIATELY asked what qualified him" as if there is wrong in doing that. It seems you want to bring up non issues for the sake of being argumentative? I am not sure exactly what your point is here. Anyone taking information from ANYONE with out being provided proof or knowing what qualifies the source as being a legitimate source of information should really question their reasoning skills.

People can be misguided and no one wants to see their belief system being painted in the wrong light. I think the main purpose of the questioning was to figure out if this person had any real knowledge of what he was attempting to "shed light on". Which it doesn't seem he does as you rightfully pointed out, so whats your point?
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:04 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,500,702 times
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njkate

Quote:
What is a mullah (sp?) Is this like a priest or rabbi?
Word used generally in Persian speaking areas and South east asia to recognize a person of higher learning. Yes like a Rabbi or Priest I would guess. You can also say Mualana. In Africa and Mid East we would say Shaykh, Mu'alim or Imam.

Quote:
Why all the violence between the 2 sects? Do they differ in their beliefs?
One group "sunni" say that after the Prophet's Death one of his close friends Abu Bakr, then Omar then Uthman followed by the prophets Cousin A'li are the people who should have governed over the Islamic nation after the Prophet's death. The Shi'i (****te) say it should have been twelve direct decedents from the Prophet Muhammad lineage, specifically Ali (the cousin), Hasan (grand son), Hussein (Hasan's brother) etc. etc.

So there is some contention on this point. It doesn't help that certain things are said about these men by either sect (which they hold in high esteem) which causes a ton of friction and fighting. there has also been a LOT of persecution in the past, especially against Shi'a (Shi'a = ****te in western spelling) which doesn't help

Quote:
Why are women in some Islamic nations so maltreated?
Not all but a lot. Goes back to ignorance I think. This is more a social issue and not a religious issue. This does not hold true across the board. rememebr Pakistan, a Muslim dominated country had a female prime minister while America has had no female presidents. So this isn't universely true. In that same country (Pakistan) in the villages you can see some of this mistreatment you hear about, but these are village people who I think are not so well educated and have outdated thinking. Also in UAE women are not so mistreated. Nigeria muslim women have owned businesses and been big contributers to their communities. Again, you go into some of the villages and you can see a stark contrast to that. I guess it could be like going to NYC and seeing a American woman and contrasting her to one of those fundamentalist mormon women.
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:06 PM
 
25,740 posts, read 25,435,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
JerZ

You statement has some contradictions in it



So, first you say he was jumped on before people anyone knew his credentials. Then you say "he was IMMEDIATELY asked what qualified him" as if there is wrong in doing that. It seems you want to bring up non issues for the sake of being argumentative? I am not sure exactly what your point is here. Anyone taking information from ANYONE with out being provided proof or knowing what qualifies the source as being a legitimate source of information should really question their reasoning skills.

People can be misguided and no one wants to see their belief system being painted in the wrong light. I think the main purpose of the questioning was to figure out if this person had any real knowledge of what he was attempting to "shed light on". Which it doesn't seem he does as you rightfully pointed out, so whats your point?
That's not a contradiction. He *was* jumped on before people knew his credentials. This was in fact done by immediately being asked (in detail) what qualified him. Now...as far as whether there is "anything wrong with" asking for credentials: That wasn't my statement...that it was "wrong". My statement was that I was totally puzzled by why *Christians* aren't asked these questions before answering (or starting) posts. As far as you stating that my question is a "non-issue", my my, but we do seem to have some control issues. First, you demand that the OP not answer his own thread. Next, you hijack it, answering questions made to the OP yourself, as apparently the "expert". Finally, you silence those who don't ask questions you can answer, dismissing such questions as "non-issues".

Now. If anyone else would like to address my question, that would be great; I'm all ears. I remain curious about it.

ETA: I think it might also be prudent, as long as we're warning people against "false information" here, that this poster might know absolutely nothing about Islam, so credentials (from any poster--including me; ANY poster) don't really matter much on an internet forum. I would hope that would go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Yes, this poster *might* be versed in the Q'uran. On the other hand, he/she might be some blonde chick from Staten Island busily Googling Arabic phrases. This is a discussion forum--anyone who wants "authentic information" on any religion obviously should go to the source (church, synagogue, mosque, coven, etc.). This board is for discussion among people from all walks of life, all stages of any given religion or not religious at all but having opinions on religion or philosophy...as far as I understand things. And in that spirit, I'm not sure how my question is a "non-issue", how the above poster is an "expert" or how the OP couldn't possibly have any worthy input. 'Nuff said.

Last edited by JerZ; 03-17-2008 at 12:40 PM..
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Netherlands
249 posts, read 494,493 times
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Default Some Questions That Are Puzzling

I have only read the Koran twice.. so I am no expert.. but what puzzled me was.. I couldn’t find a single reference to.. loving kindness.. or love.

Is loving kindness really missing in the Koran.. ?

In Buddhism.. loving kindness is the core teaching..

Buddha taught..

"Greater than all religious accomplishments is loving kindness"

“As the light of the moon is sixteen times stronger than the light of all the stars, so loving kindness is sixteen times more efficacious in liberating the heart than all other religious accomplishments taken together.”

"By the practice of loving kindness I have attained liberation of heart, and thus I am assured that I shall never return in renewed births. I have even now attained Nirvana."

---

Also.. in the Bible.. it is the core teaching too.
-
“What shall I do to you, when the loving-kindness of you people is like the morning clouds and like the dew that early goes away? That is why I shall have to hew them by the prophets; I shall have to kill them by the sayings of my mouth. And the judgments upon you will be as the light that goes forth.

For in loving kindness I have taken delight, and not in solemn assembly.; and in the knowledge of God rather than in your use of uncanny power. But they themselves, like earthling man, have overstepped the covenant. There is where they have dealt treacherously with me. And as in the lying in wait for a man, the association of priests are marauding bands.” - Hosea 6:4

-
Does the Koran.. say anything about loving kindness at all.. ?

And.. if not.. why.. ?

This is something that really puzzles me.

In the Bible.. Jesus clearly explained the idea of God to us.. though his words and his actions..

“No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.” - John 1:18

Does the Koran explain God.. in the same way.. ?
-
"GOD IS LOVE, and he that remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him." . 1John 4:16
-
If not.. how does it explain the idea of God.. ?

And.. what knowledge of God does it convey.. ?

“For in Loving kindness I have taken delight, and not in sacrifice; and in the KNOWLEDGE of God rather than in whole burnt offerings.” – Hosea 6:6

*

Last edited by accelerator; 03-17-2008 at 02:02 PM.. Reason: error
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:01 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,500,702 times
Reputation: 2067
The Quran speaks tons of kindness

Speaks about protecting orphans, giving to the poor, talks about protecting those who are under the foot of tyranny. The Quran extols people to give to others in need be that monetarily or via protection in many places. I am surprise you didn't read that. Surat Al Baqara (the second chapter) lays that out plainly
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Old 03-17-2008, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Netherlands
249 posts, read 494,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
The Quran speaks tons of kindness

Speaks about protecting orphans, giving to the poor, talks about protecting those who are under the foot of tyranny. The Quran extols people to give to others in need be that monetarily or via protection in many places. I am surprise you didn't read that. Surat Al Baqara (the second chapter) lays that out plainly
As I said I only read it twice.. and to understand such books.. I know.. it takes years of study.

However.. I donít know any orphans that need protecting.. and even if I did come across an orphan.. red tape would make it impossible for me to look after one.

As for the poor.. you donít seem to see them in the Netherlands. Money has never been very important to me. The only thing I have to give.. is myself. I do low paid jobs and.. Iím not materially ambitious.

I would love to protect someone under tyranny.. but no one around here fits that description..

I guess I could go and fight in Tibet..

But then .. is that love.. really..?

I asked the question.. because I was puzzled.. why the L.. word.. seemed to be missing..

Am I mistakenÖ ?

Another thing that puzzles me.. about religions in general.. is.. why have so many rules.. when one rule is sufficient..?

Doesnít one simple law.. cover all the religious teachings.. including the oneís you mentioned.. ?

"All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean." - Matthew 7:12

Does the Koran also teach the same principle.. ?

I believe I heard it does somewhere.. but I'm not certain.

*
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:38 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,500,702 times
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one rule is sufficient? Are the laws of any land made of just one rule? Your reasoning is puzzling.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:27 PM
 
44 posts, read 69,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
JerZ

You statement has some contradictions in it



So, first you say he was jumped on before people anyone knew his credentials. Then you say "he was IMMEDIATELY asked what qualified him" as if there is wrong in doing that. It seems you want to bring up non issues for the sake of being argumentative? I am not sure exactly what your point is here. Anyone taking information from ANYONE with out being provided proof or knowing what qualifies the source as being a legitimate source of information should really question their reasoning skills.

People can be misguided and no one wants to see their belief system being painted in the wrong light. I think the main purpose of the questioning was to figure out if this person had any real knowledge of what he was attempting to "shed light on". Which it doesn't seem he does as you rightfully pointed out, so whats your point?
It is just amazing how you decided that I don't have the real knowledge about what I’m talking about, even before you hear me say anything about the subject!!!. Your reasoning is that I have to have studied Islam and specialized in it to be able to make an informed and educated statements about it. I guess by the same reasoning since I have never been a communist, I should not talk of communism, or since I’m not a politician, I should not even discuss politics. I told you, I lived in several Muslim countries for 16 years, I do speak Arabic, I’m well versed in the Quran, and yet before you even hear my thoughts and ideas about Islam, you decided I’m not qualified to speak about it.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:29 PM
 
44 posts, read 69,333 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
which sect are you asking about? There are Shi'i which is the minority sect and there are sunni which is the predominate sect. If you wish to know about Islam ask the Muslims, not someone who "lived in a country" with Muslims. I am from NYC and where I am from there was predominantly Jews specifically hassidic ones. I don't pretend to be able to explain their religion though.

As for my credentials, I am Muslim, speak arabic, studied Quran, ahadith and seerat under a Mufti (Islamic jurist who is able to give religious rulings). I will attempt to answer questions as best I can. If I don't know them I will consult a scholar. Please be specific as to which sect you wish to know about as some things do differ.

I think there are other Muslims lurking on this board as well so God willing they can help out.

Peace
The poster asked what are the foundations of Islam, which really should not matter which sect you adher to, since the foundations are the same. The five pillars of Islam are the same no matter what sect you belong to.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:47 PM
 
44 posts, read 69,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tverde View Post
what are the foundation beliefs of Islam?
By foundations Iím assuming you mean what are the basic beliefs you should hold to be a Muslim, beliefs that are integral to Islam and Essential to being a Muslim. Bellow are the five pillars of Islam

1- Declaring and Witnessing that there is no god but God, (so there is only one God), and Mohamed is his prophet.(among many other prophets)
2- Practicing the Muslim prayer
3- Fasting the month or Ramadan
4- Zakat (which is giving money out to the needy)
5- Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca, once in a life time for those who can afford doing so)

These are the foundations of the Sunni way, which amounts to 80% of all Muslims. The rest might add three or four pillars to that, depending on the sect, but that might include giving more money, jihad (not as we understand it here in the west, but more of in internal struggle with oneself) and couple of more things. Here is a link to wikipedia if you want more information
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