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Old 03-18-2008, 01:52 PM
 
Location: America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
Hmm, never knew that!! I like that belief though!
It always troubled me that a child could come into the world already with sin and it would be up to his parents to remove it through baptism!!

Another question..I know many religions don't but does Islam believe in reincarnation, that you are here more then once just no memory of it?
The Scholar I attended used to lecture at many places. One time I took him to a Jewish community center and one of the first questions a person asked him was about the original sin concept. The person was Jewish and was surprised and "relieved" that we Muslims didn't believe in original sin for some reason.

As for rebirth, Muslims believe you come into this world, you live your life and then you die. You are raised on judgment day and you get heaven or hell depending on if you lived good or sinful/evil life. Until that day comes, you are in a state of rest/sleep. Depending on the life you lived will determine if you are tormented or peaceful during this intermediate state.
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
The Scholar I attended used to lecture at many places. One time I took him to a Jewish community center and one of the first questions a person asked him was about the original sin concept. The person was Jewish and was surprised and "relieved" that we Muslims didn't believe in original sin for some reason.

As for rebirth, Muslims believe you come into this world, you live your life and then you die. You are raised on judgment day and you get heaven or hell depending on if you lived good or sinful/evil life. Until that day comes, you are in a state of rest/sleep. Depending on the life you lived will determine if you are tormented or peaceful during this intermediate state.


Pretty close to Catholisim/Judism in the above belief!!
To bad we all just couldn't get along??
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Old 03-18-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,485,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
[/b]

Pretty close to Catholisim/Judism in the above belief!!
To bad we all just couldn't get along??
You are going to have ignorant people regardless of what the social/economic/religious factors may be. For example, 50 yrs back it was Whites on Black. In Europe it was None Jews persecuting Jews. People will be people.
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Old 03-18-2008, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
Well in reality when it comes to the Bible, The Koran or the Talmud being as we all are human don't you think different people will interpret different ways??

I'm Catholic, went through Catholic schools and I am still perplexed with many things!

I do believe in one GOD no matter if his name is God, Allah, Jehovah et al

I also believe that all should be allowed to practice their religion/beliefs in peace and not try & force it down the throats of others.

I am also respectful of others beliefs..were I to go to a synagogue I would expect my husband to put a yarmukle on out of respect
If I were to visit a mainly Islamic nation, yes I would wear a head scarf out of respect but that's just me.

IMO the danger with that, is that it is taken the stance that everyone is right no matter who they believe in, as long as it is something greater than us. That all religions are right...contrary to that, each religion has specific criteria that seperate themselves from one another, so they cant be all right. Unless your saying that, it is just a belief that there is something greater, but there really isnt.

Also, for being a Cathloic, more importantly a believer in Christ, There are many times throughout the scripture when its quoted that, There is only one true way, one road that leads to heaven, the name of that road is Jesus.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:33 PM
 
44 posts, read 69,276 times
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Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
1. What you said was inaccurate. The foundation of Islam depends on what sect you ask. I don't really care what some person posted on Wikipedia. The fact is if you email Ayat. Khameini, Fadlallah, Sistani (these are shi'a scholars) or whoever you like on this issue, you will get the same answer as far as the foundation of Islam as according to Shi'i beleifs. They all have sites by the way which you can email them questions and they will get back to you. You have to know arabic fluently to contact Ayat. Fadlallah though, his answers will only be in Arabic.

2. Being a expert here isn't really the issue, the issue is giving accurate information.

3. Islam has a system in place for how someone becomes a Imam, Ayatollah, Qadi, Mufti and so on and so fourth. It isn't about what I think that makes a person a scholar or not in a particular system. I am none of these, although I did study under a Mufti for some time.

Anyway, I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else, Just want to try and get accurate information out there.

To
1- I see your point, but I don't think what I said could be described as in accurate. Unless you want me to make a list of all Muslim sects and what they believe are the pillars of Islam.

2- Given that Sunni Muslims account for almost 75-80 percent of all Muslims, I would argue that it is fairly accurate information.

3- Seems you misread my answer again, I did not use Wikipedia as a source, I just said what you presented as different foundations of different sects are on Wikipidia, so it would have been easy for me to just post that, if I wanted to mention all the different sects and what they believe are the pillars of Islam.

4- My point was, the foundations of Islam that I thought the poster was asking, really meant what are the least common denominator that all Muslims would agree on. In this case, the 5 pillars I mentioned would be fairly accurate.

5- Im glad we are having this exchange, respect to you. By the way, I do speak Arabic, and have half of the Quran memorized. I know it is one thing to memorize the Quran and to understand it, but I do a fairly good job at the second part too.
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:43 AM
 
42 posts, read 116,918 times
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Quote:
Is loving kindness really missing in the Koran.. ?
I think you didn't read the holy Quran with care! Just download Quran search software and then just type LOVE and see how many times Allah (swt) said ALLAH LOVES JUSTICE, KINDNESS.....

Allah has 99 attributes One of them is WADOOD which means THE LOVING GOD.

Allah is Loving and Forgiving

Say: "If ye do love God, Follow me: God will love you and forgive you your sins: For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." [The Holy Quran 003:031]

God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service). (Quran 42:23)

[003:076] Nay.- Those that keep their plighted faith and act aright,-verily God loves those who act aright.

[060:007] It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things); And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

JUSTICE & Mercy IS LOVE FOR MANKIND

It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and a dversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing.

[The Holy Quran 002:177]


[004:036] Serve God, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess (SLAVES) : For God loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;-

[076:008] And they feed, for the love of God, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive,-

Allah Loves Good

God loveth the righteous. (The Holy Quran 9:4)
God loveth those who do good. (The Holy Quran 5: 93)
God loveth those who judge in equity. (The Holy Quran 5:42)
God loveth those who are kind. (The Holy Quran 5:13)
God loves those who put their trust (in Him). (The Holy Quran 3:159)
verily God loves those who act aright. (The Holy Quran 3:76)
God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service). (Quran 42:23)




And spend of your substance in the cause of God, and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for God loveth those who do good. [the Holy Quran 002:195]

[003:134] Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for God loves those who do good;-

"As to those who believe and work righteousness, God will pay them (in full) their reward; but God loveth not those who do wrong." [The holy Quran 003:057]

[003:076] Nay.- Those that keep their plighted faith and act aright,-verily God loves those who act aright.

Allah Loves Those Who Loves Him

For God loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean. (The holy Quran 2:22)

Allah Loves Trust in Him

For God loves those who put their trust (in Him). (The Holy Quran 3:159)


Allah Doesn't Love...

God loveth not those who do mischief. (The Holy Quran 5:64)
God loveth not one given to perfidy and crime: (The Holy Quran 4:107)
God loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;- (The Holy Quran 4:36)
And God loveth not those that do wrong. (The Holy Quran 3:140)
For He loveth not creatures ungrateful and wicked. (The Holy Quran 2:276)


Unity in the Quran

[003:103] And hold fast, all together, by the rope which God (stretches out for you THE HOLY QURAN), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude God's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth God make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.

[004:069] All who obey God and the apostle are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of God,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!

Allah Loves Tolerance of other Faiths

[060:008] God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just.

Love Between Husband and Wife

[030:021] And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates (wives) from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,106 posts, read 24,895,899 times
Reputation: 11146
[quote=tverde;3180445]IMO the danger with that, is that it is taken the stance that everyone is right no matter who they believe in, as long as it is something greater than us. That all religions are right...contrary to that, each religion has specific criteria that seperate themselves from one another, so they cant be all right. Unless your saying that, it is just a belief that there is something greater, but there really isnt.

Also, for being a Cathloic, more importantly a believer in Christ, There are many times throughout the scripture when its quoted that, There is only one true way, one road that leads to heaven, the name of that road is Jesus.[/QUOTE]

Understood!! I'm still not going to force that down some one else's throat.

I think we all worship the same God, just have different names for him.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,106 posts, read 24,895,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
Sorry i took so long, I am at work.

Anyway

In Quran Chapter 3 versus 7 it says:

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

Generally speaking in the Quran (not sure if you have read one) you have whats called tafsir or the explanation of the verse. In the Tafsir you will see the historical background of a particular versue, ie when it was revealed. Or if it is about say Prophet Jesus, or David or Solomon etc then it will say a bit of background on that. This are clear cut, then as it says you have others that are allegorical and those in some cases do lead to some trouble with people trying to put their own spin on it. I assumed from the Christians I have come across (never really went in depth with a Christian scholar) that the bible was pretty much treated using interpretation and not from a historical basis. As someone else pointed out that i am probably wrong on this and it was probably just the people I met.

Ok..would you not agree the taliban has interpreted the Koran just a wee bit different them most Muslims?
I look at some Islamic countries and how they behave and especially how they treat women..Saudi Arabia, Jordan, then I look at Afghanistan with the taliban huge difference
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:12 AM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,485,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
Ok..would you not agree the taliban has interpreted the Koran just a wee bit different them most Muslims?
I look at some Islamic countries and how they behave and especially how they treat women..Saudi Arabia, Jordan, then I look at Afghanistan with the taliban huge difference
A lot of that stuff is cultural and not religious. There is nothing that says women can not be educated. Khadija, Prophet Muhammad's first wife was a business owner. Aisha was well versed in Islam according to some reports. Fatima, one of the daughters of Prophet Muhammad also was educated. A woman is not even obligated Islamically to cook and clean if she doesn't want to. The money a woman earns is HER money and a man MUST provide for her 100%, again this is Islamic law. But you see those Taliban did things which were contrary to this and a lot of it had to do with the circumstances in Afghanistan at that time. Women were being raped back then (saw a documentary and supposedly it is still happening). so they said women can't go out with out their husbands (makes sense given the save nature of how things were going back then).

I don't promote the Taliban, I don't have any affiliation or emotional attachment to them. I am just explaining how these things happen. Culture and social circumstances play a HUGE role in a lot of this.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,106 posts, read 24,895,899 times
Reputation: 11146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
A lot of that stuff is cultural and not religious. There is nothing that says women can not be educated. Khadija, Prophet Muhammad's first wife was a business owner. Aisha was well versed in Islam according to some reports. Fatima, one of the daughters of Prophet Muhammad also was educated. A woman is not even obligated Islamically to cook and clean if she doesn't want to. The money a woman earns is HER money and a man MUST provide for her 100%, again this is Islamic law. But you see those Taliban did things which were contrary to this and a lot of it had to do with the circumstances in Afghanistan at that time. Women were being raped back then (saw a documentary and supposedly it is still happening). so they said women can't go out with out their husbands (makes sense given the save nature of how things were going back then).

I don't promote the Taliban, I don't have any affiliation or emotional attachment to them. I am just explaining how these things happen. Culture and social circumstances play a HUGE role in a lot of this.
Agree!! But they sure are giving the rest of the Muslim world/ Islam a bad name.
I know there are different ethic groups as well..Pashtuns who I believe are Sunni and Hazara which I believe are Shi...from what I've read the Taliban is mainly comprised of Pashtuns..correct me if I am wrong

Ahhh more wars and more blood has been shed over time in the name of God then any other reason I think.....He can't be to happy with us humans
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