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Old 10-16-2008, 10:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
There is no answer. 1. it isnt in the Quran. 2. I have no idea why the "people who justify this type of acts" say what they say.

That is like me asking you why do Christians in Ireland think its justified or ok to go round blowing each other up. How the heck would you know, right?
OK, that makes sense.

Do Islam teach that Muslims who murder innocent folks during their death (ie suicide bombings) go to paradise/heaven and are they rewarded for being martyrs on the 'other side'?

Does the Koran teach that there are rewards for killing non-Muslims?
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:01 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
OK, that makes sense.

Do Islam teach that Muslims who murder innocent folks during their death (ie suicide bombings) go to paradise/heaven and are they rewarded for being martyrs on the 'other side'?

Does the Koran teach that there are rewards for killing non-Muslims?
our God rewards muslims whom sacrifice themselfs for thier country
suicide bobmers be rewarded if it was agianst enemies in the battlefield

suicide bombers against innocent (women , children and civilians ) are oppose the teaching of islam

is that clear ?
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:19 AM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,488,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
OK, that makes sense.

Do Islam teach that Muslims who murder innocent folks during their death (ie suicide bombings) go to paradise/heaven and are they rewarded for being martyrs on the 'other side'?

Does the Koran teach that there are rewards for killing non-Muslims?
Ok, Good question

Does Islam teach that Muslims who murder innocent folks during their death (i.e. suicide bombings) go to paradise/heaven and are they rewarded for being martyrs on the 'other side'

You are only allowed to defend your self when being attacked or go on the offensive when you or others are being oppressed. If during either one of these two scenarios you are killed, then yes you go to heaven.

A individual person can not decided when either of the two above situations are valid to fight (offensive or defensive war). It is only for the Kalif (the person who rules over the Islamic State) to make this call. Right now we don't have that (a Islamic State or a Kalif). When fighting though, you are not to kill innocent people. You are not to even cut down a single tree in the lands of those who fight against you. You are only allowed to fight those who show agression in a war setting (lawful combatants in today's langauge). This is in the Quran. Also, Quran says that when you fight and then your enemy seeks peace (wants to stop fighting) you are to oblige this. Only in case where the enemy resumes fighting are you to continue.

Does the Koran teach that there are rewards for killing non-Muslims?

Please see my answer above.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:06 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,505,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
our God rewards muslims whom sacrifice themselfs for thier country
suicide bobmers be rewarded if it was agianst enemies in the battlefield

suicide bombers against innocent (women , children and civilians ) are oppose the teaching of islam

is that clear ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
Ok, Good question

Does Islam teach that Muslims who murder innocent folks during their death (i.e. suicide bombings) go to paradise/heaven and are they rewarded for being martyrs on the 'other side'

You are only allowed to defend your self when being attacked or go on the offensive when you or others are being oppressed. If during either one of these two scenarios you are killed, then yes you go to heaven.

A individual person can not decided when either of the two above situations are valid to fight (offensive or defensive war). It is only for the Kalif (the person who rules over the Islamic State) to make this call. Right now we don't have that (a Islamic State or a Kalif). When fighting though, you are not to kill innocent people. You are not to even cut down a single tree in the lands of those who fight against you. You are only allowed to fight those who show agression in a war setting (lawful combatants in today's langauge). This is in the Quran. Also, Quran says that when you fight and then your enemy seeks peace (wants to stop fighting) you are to oblige this. Only in case where the enemy resumes fighting are you to continue.

Does the Koran teach that there are rewards for killing non-Muslims?

Please see my answer above.
I'm not baiting and I do hope you realize why I am asking.

OK, let me rephrase and cut through all the 'nice-ities' and just ask point blank:

When a Muslim blows himself up in Jerusalem, elsewhere in Israel or anywhere else for that matter, and innocent men, women, and children are killed, do you believe that bomber is in Heaven?

I've heard folks say that actions such as those go against the teachings of Islam but I've never heard them say Allah would condemn them.

I'm not asking you to judge these folks, I'm asking for:

1-What Islam teaches?
2-Your personal opinion.

Thanks
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:54 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,488,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I'm not baiting and I do hope you realize why I am asking.

OK, let me rephrase and cut through all the 'nice-ities' and just ask point blank:

When a Muslim blows himself up in Jerusalem, elsewhere in Israel or anywhere else for that matter, and innocent men, women, and children are killed, do you believe that bomber is in Heaven?

I've heard folks say that actions such as those go against the teachings of Islam but I've never heard them say Allah would condemn them.

I'm not asking you to judge these folks, I'm asking for:

1-What Islam teaches?
2-Your personal opinion.

Thanks
We have stated what Islam teachers on the matter so now it comes down to how these people who do this choose to justify their actions. I honestly can't give you a intelligent opinion on the matter. I haven't researched why some people say its ok as opposed to why some others condemn it.

Personally? I think killing some innocent person (kids for example) is utterly ridiculous. I have heard some people justify killing adults (Israelis) because all people there are reservist and "technically military people" i.e. military targets. I don't know about that though. Seems like a stretch, especially if they are not actively attacking you. Also again, we don't have a Islamic state, there is no Kalif so how can this be justified?
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:04 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,505,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
We have stated what Islam teachers on the matter so now it comes down to how these people who do this choose to justify their actions. I honestly can't give you a intelligent opinion on the matter. I haven't researched why some people say its ok as opposed to why some others condemn it.

Personally? I think killing some innocent person (kids for example) is utterly ridiculous. I have heard some people justify killing adults (Israelis) because all people there are reservist and "technically military people" i.e. military targets. I don't know about that though. Seems like a stretch, especially if they are not actively attacking you. Also again, we don't have a Islamic state, there is no Kalif so how can this be justified?
Thanks for answering. I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if you've had to repeat yourself.

I was also unfamiliar with the term 'Kalif' so I appreciate your lesson on that as well.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:36 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I'm not baiting and I do hope you realize why I am asking.

OK, let me rephrase and cut through all the 'nice-ities' and just ask point blank:

When a Muslim blows himself up in Jerusalem, elsewhere in Israel or anywhere else for that matter, and innocent men, women, and children are killed, do you believe that bomber is in Heaven?

I've heard folks say that actions such as those go against the teachings of Islam but I've never heard them say Allah would condemn them.

I'm not asking you to judge these folks, I'm asking for:

1-What Islam teaches?
2-Your personal opinion.

Thanks
Israil is special case

According to Islam, if the enemy kills civilians from us, then they have declared a war from all directions upon us. We as Muslims must not start killing civilians, But when we are confronted with an enemy that doesn't care about civilization and human value and worth
then the Noble Quran instructs us:
"O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty. (The Noble Quran, 2:178)"

As to the Palestinian suicide bombers today, the religious leaders of the Islamic organizations inside Palestine made it very clear that they are giving the verdict (fatwa) to kill the civilian Jews inside Israel, because
(1) the Jews are killing civilians from us;
(2) the Jews are building more settlements and are not withdrawing from the lands that they were not supposed to be in since 1991; and
(3) the Jews are all armed and dangerous and their civilians do use their weapons against the unarmed Palestinian civilians.


so my personal openion in the matter of Israil only would be,
may Allah Almighty bless our Muslim brothers and sisters in Palestine and grant the Highest Levels of Paradise to its Suicide Bombers.

after all , no one encourage these suicides against civilians , i think most of them attacks soldiers as possible as they can
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:41 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,505,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
so my personal openion in the matter of Israil only would be,
may Allah Almighty bless our Muslim brothers and sisters in Palestine and grant the Highest Levels of Paradise to its Suicide Bombers.
WOW!

That's not quite what Wild Style said. I'm assuming you must be one of those radical, extremist, fundamentalists that other Muslims speak of and Wild Style must be one those folks that speak out against this kind of senseless violence.

I don't understand how you could say that a government attacks and kills civilians should be responded to by attacking and killing their civilians.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:50 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
WOW!

That's not quite what Wild Style said. I'm assuming you must be one of those radical, extremist, fundamentalists that other Muslims speak of and Wild Style must be one those folks that speak out against this kind of senseless violence.

I don't understand how you could say that a government attacks and kills civilians should be responded to by attacking and killing their civilians.
i allready said my reasons , tell me why it's not fair ?
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:53 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,505,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i allready said my reasons , tell me why it's not fair ?
Is it fair that the Israelis kill your civilians?

If not, why is it not fair?

There will be your answer too.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Why hold the civilians responsible for the actions of the government?

Surely your god doesn't hold you accountable for the actions of someone other than you, so why do you not reflect the same standard?
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