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Old 10-10-2017, 02:00 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Taken in proper moderation (a drink or 2 per day), alcohol is beneficial, and, again taken in proper moderation, is not at all harmful.
A recent study by University College London found patients who stopped drinking alcohol for four weeks saw benefits for their liver function, blood pressure and cholesterol levels and were also at lower risk of developing diabetes and liver disease.

A report by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence said experts warned that middle-aged people should be advised there was no safe level of alcohol consumption.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...delines-to-say

The idea that the "proper moderation" per day can be fine for health has now been rejected by the health officials. They are effectively recommending reduction and then stopping to be safe; the idea adopted in the Qur'an over 1400 years ago.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Any "beneficial" affect of alcohol can be as well achieved by non intoxicants.

Soo... Intoxicants is rather a VAST term. Yet,I see "alcohol" only.
Aren't rivers in Muslim heaven filled with wine?
A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted ... and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers. Surah 47:15

Rivers of wine in heaven won't make anyone drunk as wine does here on earth or damage his/her health.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:14 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,175 posts, read 10,993,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
A recent study by University College London found patients who stopped drinking alcohol for four weeks saw benefits for their liver function, blood pressure and cholesterol levels and were also at lower risk of developing diabetes and liver disease.

A report by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence said experts warned that middle-aged people should be advised there was no safe level of alcohol consumption.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...delines-to-say

The idea that the "proper moderation" per day can be fine for health has now been rejected by the health officials. They are effectively recommending reduction and then stopping to be safe; the idea adopted in the Qur'an over 1400 years ago.
The title and the contents of that article are not in agreement. The article does not say that the medical recommendation is to refrain from all alcohol. The changed their recommended amounts, but did not eliminate them.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:34 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
The title and the contents of that article are not in agreement. The article does not say that the medical recommendation is to refrain from all alcohol. The changed their recommended amounts, but did not eliminate them.
The following two paragraphs are agreeing with the title:

The guidelines are to say there is no safe alcohol limit and even drinking small amounts could cause illnesses including cancer.

Scientific research since the review was launched in 2012 has suggested abstaining from alcohol could help avoid serious illness, particularly in later life.

"Abstaining from alcohol could help avoid illness" is as far as the report can go rather than actually ban drinking alcohol altogether even if there is no safe limit.

The Qur'an is spot on that sin (damage/loss) is more than the benefit (profit).
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Old 10-15-2017, 04:53 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,175 posts, read 10,993,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The following two paragraphs are agreeing with the title:

The guidelines are to say there is no safe alcohol limit and even drinking small amounts could cause illnesses including cancer.

Scientific research since the review was launched in 2012 has suggested abstaining from alcohol could help avoid serious illness, particularly in later life.

"Abstaining from alcohol could help avoid illness" is as far as the report can go rather than actually ban drinking alcohol altogether even if there is no safe limit.

The Qur'an is spot on that sin (damage/loss) is more than the benefit (profit).
The use of the word could does not indicate a scientific cause/effect relationship so much as it reflects an opinion or viewpoint. For most healthy non-alcoholic adults, having a drink or two per day, especially red wine, can have demonstrable benefits. That is true regardless of your view, the Qur'an, or sin. Doctors agree.
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,168 posts, read 13,712,727 times
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I find the religious talking about intoxicants, ironic.

Talking about flying horses when you're stoned -it's the drugs. Talking about flying horses when you're straight - it's the beauty of faith
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:59 PM
 
4,411 posts, read 1,640,943 times
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Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I find the religious talking about intoxicants, ironic.

Talking about flying horses when you're stoned -it's the drugs. Talking about flying horses when you're straight - it's the beauty of faith
...that's fine with me if you want to brush aside religious based recommendations of staying away from intoxicants.

You can drink and smoke and sniff all you want and whatever you want, it's your choice and free world. See if anyone cares, except for perhaps the law of the land?
And if there are consequences, then it will be only yourself to blame.
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:32 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
The use of the word could does not indicate a scientific cause/effect relationship so much as it reflects an opinion or viewpoint. For most healthy non-alcoholic adults, having a drink or two per day, especially red wine, can have demonstrable benefits. That is true regardless of your view, the Qur'an, or sin. Doctors agree.
mensaguy,

The word could does not mean couldn't. Are you insisting in your view that drinking even small amount of alcohol couldn't cause anyone any illness?

The health experts are saying that middle-aged people should be advised there was no safe level of alcohol consumption."

No safe limit means even one or two drinks per day is not safe level for middle-aged people.

The benefit of not drinking alcohol has been studied at a London University's college (UCL) where medics and dentists are trained:

"A recent study by University College London found patients who stopped drinking alcohol for four weeks saw benefits for their liver function, blood pressure and cholesterol levels and were also at lower risk of developing diabetes and liver disease."

If you want to carry on drinking red wine, we are not going to stop you. It's your right. The same goes for you jumping off a window on a third storey. It could be safe to do so but at the same time it could damage your health. It is the risk factor.

The Qur'an is not insisting that there is no benefit. In fact, it says that there is some benefit for some people (it can be used as medicine) but highlighting that damage could be more than the benefit.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,168 posts, read 13,712,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
...that's fine with me if you want to brush aside religious based recommendations of staying away from intoxicants.

You can drink and smoke and sniff all you want and whatever you want, it's your choice and free world. See if anyone cares, except for perhaps the law of the land?
And if there are consequences, then it will be only yourself to blame.
Yeah, I'm cool with all of that.

I'm just saying that it's ironic being warned about mind altering substances, by folk who have symbolic blood drinking rituals, or folk who think some guy loaded all of the animal species on to a big boat during a world wide flood.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,392 posts, read 11,709,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
mensaguy,

The word could does not mean couldn't. Are you insisting in your view that drinking even small amount of alcohol couldn't cause anyone any illness?

The health experts are saying that middle-aged people should be advised there was no safe level of alcohol consumption."

No safe limit means even one or two drinks per day is not safe level for middle-aged people.

The benefit of not drinking alcohol has been studied at a London University's college (UCL) where medics and dentists are trained:

"A recent study by University College London found patients who stopped drinking alcohol for four weeks saw benefits for their liver function, blood pressure and cholesterol levels and were also at lower risk of developing diabetes and liver disease."

If you want to carry on drinking red wine, we are not going to stop you. It's your right. The same goes for you jumping off a window on a third storey. It could be safe to do so but at the same time it could damage your health. It is the risk factor.

The Qur'an is not insisting that there is no benefit. In fact, it says that there is some benefit for some people (it can be used as medicine) but highlighting that damage could be more than the benefit.
My boss and her husband are Muslims. He drinks and I think beats her. How does Islam address those issues? My feeling is that Islamic women do not have rights; even when they are American citizens in the US - but I could be wrong and that is why I am asking the question. Please correct me if I have false assumptions.

PS I am a nondrinking atheist that has been married for 49 years.
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