U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-29-2017, 04:33 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,942 times
Reputation: 289

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
it sounds like these quotes (posts #63, #77, and #92) are saying that if a person does not follow the "new revelation" (which includes venerating Muhamed) then they do not believe in God.
None of them say that but you mishear and misread. You misheard and misread Truth Teller too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
The phrases "rejecting belief in God" and "opposite of believing in God" are very clear language. So if 23% of the world is Muslim, then 77% of the world is not Muslim and does not venerate Muhamed, and so you are saying 77% of the world does not believe in God.
It is clear language, you reject belief in One God in one language then you reject belief in One God in your language too unless you say that your language is the only language that matters, Moses is the only messenger that matters and the Torah is the only revelation that matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
however, billions of people among that 77% of the world do believe in God and do have faith in God.
When talking about "monotheism, you are definitely wrong there. Even the golden calf worshipers believed in God but do you know which god?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
just like in this thread people are in agreement that no human can say someone is going to Hell.
so too, no person can say about someone else that they "don't believe in God" or don't have faith in God
When they openly reject "belief" in One God with which Muhammad came, they reject "belief" in One God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
everyone has access to God.
belief in God and faith in God does NOT require a particular religion, nor does it require veneration of a specific individual.
Why did you need Moses and the revelation of the Torah if you didn't need them?

Anyone can be Jew if born to a Jewish mother. One needs to have belief in One God and obey God's commands to be a Muslim. That's how Abraham was a Muslim and not a Jew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
Those may be required in the doctrine creed and religion of Islam, and this is the Islam forum so that is recognized and respected. However to say that others who are not Muslims (such as Crstns, Lakota, Hindus, Druze, Sikh, indigenous, Zoroastrins, Jews to name a few, plus others ) to say that they do not believe in God and do not have faith in the Creator, is not accurate, true, or correct. Nor is it respectful of other religions, other people, and other paths to God.
When one rejects "belief" in One God that Muhammad came with, one rejects the same "belief" in One God that Moses came with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
a person does not have to practice a particular religion to have faith in God and to believe in God.
Reject "belief" in One God brought by Muhammad that was also brought by Moses, you reject the latter too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
everyone has access to the Creator regardless of the religion they choose or don't choose.
and regardless of whether they venerate or ignore a particular individual, messenger, or holy book.
You already had access to God. Why did you need Moses, Joshua and the Torah?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-29-2017, 04:37 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 384,611 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post

When they openly reject "belief" in One God with which Muhammad came, they reject "belief" in One God.

When one rejects "belief" in One God that Muhammad came with, one rejects the same "belief" in One God that Moses came with.

Reject "belief" in One God brought by Muhammad that was also brought by Moses, you reject the latter too.
That's only logical for a muslim.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2017, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
That's only logical for a muslim.
The Basic teaching of Muhammad(saws) is the same basic teaching of all the Abrahamic Prophets. To deny the teaching of Muhammad(saws) is to deny the message of Moses, Abraham, Isiah, Isaac, David, Jesus (Peace be upon all of them) and of all the true Prophets I did not name.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2017, 06:56 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 384,611 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Basic teaching of Muhammad(saws) is the same basic teaching of all the Abrahamic Prophets. To deny the teaching of Muhammad(saws) is to deny the message of Moses, Abraham, Isiah, Isaac, David, Jesus (Peace be upon all of them) and of all the true Prophets I did not name.

The message of the prophets you lists are totally different to the message and the life of muhammad.

Just Moise the oldest one who gave the ten commandmets state from memory:
* You won't kill => Muhammad killed many people and was a warlord...
* You won't wish the wife of someone else => Muhammad stole and marry his daughter in law...
* You shall not steal => Muhammad attack caravan to stole goods...


Muhamad didn't even respect the basics of the commandments. That's just the opposit...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2017, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
The message of the prophets you lists are totally different to the message and the life of muhammad.

Just Moise the oldest one who gave the ten commandmets state from memory:
* You won't kill => Muhammad killed many people and was a warlord...
* You won't wish the wife of someone else => Muhammad stole and marry his daughter in law...
* You shall not steal => Muhammad attack caravan to stole goods...


Muhamad didn't even respect the basics of the commandments. That's just the opposit...
The Basic teaching of Muhammad(saws) is "There is only one god and only He is to be worshiped" as taught by all the True Prophets(pbut) of the past. Muhammad(saws) did not negate,change nor do away with the Teachings of all the past Prophets{pbut) the Teachings of Moses, Abraham, Jesus etc(pbut) are still to be followed.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2017, 07:49 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 384,611 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Muhammad(saws) did not negate,change nor do away with the Teachings of all the past Prophets{pbut) the Teachings of Moses, Abraham, Jesus etc(pbut) are still to be followed.
Just gave you three exemples where muhammad go away with basic teaching of past prophets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2017, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
Just gave you three exemples where muhammad go away with basic teaching of past prophets.
You gave examples of how you misunderstand Hadith and/or inaccurate biographies. also the commandment more accuratly is Thou shalt not murder. Not thou shalt not kill. there are times in which "killing" is justified. Such as The execution of some criminals, in self defense etc.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's

Last edited by Woodrow LI; 10-29-2017 at 08:15 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2017, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You gave examples of how you misunderstand Hadith and/or inaccurate biographies. also the commandment more accuratly is Thou shalt not murder. Not thou shalt not kill. there are times in which "killing" is justified. Such as The execution of some criminals, in self defense etc.
For more clarification: From a Christian Site:

"
On the other hand, murder can only mean one thing: The illegal or immoral taking of a human life. That’s why we say, “I killed a mosquito,” not, “I murdered a mosquito.” And that’s why we would say that “the worker was accidentally killed,” not that “the worker was accidentally murdered.”
So why did the King James translation of the Bible use the word “kill” rather than “murder”? Because 400 years ago, when the translation was made, “kill” was synonymous with “murder.” As a result, some people don’t realize that English has changed since 1610 and therefore think that the Ten Commandments prohibits all killing."


SOURCE: You Can Kill, But Not Murder: The Case for the Ten Commandments - The Dennis Prager Show
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2017, 08:24 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 384,611 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You gave examples of how you misunderstand Hadith and/or inaccurate biographies. also the commandment more accuratly is Thou shalt not murder. Not thou shalt not kill. there are times in which "killing" is justified. Such as The execution of some criminals, in self defense etc.

English isn't my native language.
You answear for one.
And even that's not an answear because it's mean that you consider as justified the attack and the killing of random merchants.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2017, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
English isn't my native language.
You answear for one.
And even that's not an answear because it's mean that you consider as justified the attack and the killing of random merchants.
What is your source that Muhammad(saws) ever attacked and killed any innocent random merchants?
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top