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Old 11-06-2017, 12:40 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
I know how the leader us chosen in Saudi Arabia. It is in fact a monarchy. In the early 1990s it was proclaimed that the monarchy must follow sharia law and the Quran was to basically be the constitution.
Proclaimed by whom? The Qur'an or the monarchy itself? Does the monarchy follow the law in the Qur'an? Do none of them drink alcohol? Do they receive no interest on their personal savings? Where is their wealth invested in? Women have no rights there, poor have no rights, foreigners, even if Muslims, have very little rights there. You need to check their jails to see what kind of people they are keeping there without giving them their rights. That is not implementing sharia law.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
"Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, although, according to the Basic Law of Saudi Arabia adopted by royal decree in 1992, the king must comply with Sharia (that is, Islamic law) and the Quran"

"The politics of Saudi Arabia takes place in the context of an absolute monarchy with some Islamic lines, where the King is both the head of state and government. Decisions are, to a large extent, made on the basis of consultation among the senior princes of the royal family and the religious establishment. The Qur'an is declared to be the constitution of the country, which is governed on the basis of Islamic law (Shari'a). "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Saudi_Arabia

The Quran is the constitution of the country. That is a Muslim land.
In general usage "Muslim land" is a country that is Muslim majority, and follows sharia law.
No country today follows the Qur'an as its constitution. Even in Saudi Arabia not all laws are based on the Qur'an. No country has Khalifah as its leader and the head of the State. Muslim Majority State does not mean Muslim Land. A Muslim Land must be by definition only for the Muslims.

Do you know what is meant by "Shari'a Law"? Do you know the difference between Shari'a Law and Islamic Law?
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
when you say the "Holy Land" are you talking about the land today called Israel? Jerusalem? you are calling that a "Muslim land"?
Basically, Yes. This land was given to Abraham for obeying (submitting) to God. It was given on the basis of him submitting to God and not on the basis of his genealogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
and yet muslims do not pray in the direction of the Holy Land, they pray toward Mecca, Saudi Arabia.
Correction: Muslims do not pray to Holy Land or to Mecca or to Saudi Arabia. Muslims pray to God. Direction is for unity purpose. It is not because God is only in that direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
when Muhamed first got his vision he was told to pray toward Jerusalem, and he did.
This is not in the Qur'an. All his visions are documented in the Qur'an.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
then he changed the direction of prayer AWAY from the the Holy Land, he literally turned his back on the Holy Land, and now Muslims pray towards Mecca.
Direction of prayer is towards God; not towards any land.

[2.115] And Allah's is the East and the West, therefore, whither you turn, thither is Allah's purpose; surely Allah is Amplegiving, Knowing.

[2.142] The fools among the people will say: What has turned them from their qiblah which they had? Say: The East and the West belong only to Allah; He guides whom He likes to the right path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
in the Holy Land in Israel when muslims pray and prostrate, they literally turn their back to the Dome of the Rock, they point their rear ends to the Dome of the Rock
This is a silly argument.

Dome of Rock is not God. God is everywhere. You tell me the direction where there is no God and I will point my rear towards that direction.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Dangling from a mooses antlers
7,311 posts, read 12,206,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Basically, Yes. This land was given to Abraham for obeying (submitting) to God. It was given on the basis of him submitting to God and not on the basis of his genealogy.

Correction: Muslims do not pray to Holy Land or to Mecca or to Saudi Arabia. Muslims pray to God. Direction is for unity purpose. It is not because God is only in that direction.

This is not in the Qur'an. All his visions are documented in the Qur'an.

Direction of prayer is towards God; not towards any land.

[2.115] And Allah's is the East and the West, therefore, whither you turn, thither is Allah's purpose; surely Allah is Amplegiving, Knowing.

[2.142] The fools among the people will say: What has turned them from their qiblah which they had? Say: The East and the West belong only to Allah; He guides whom He likes to the right path.

This is a silly argument.

Dome of Rock is not God. God is everywhere. You tell me the direction where there is no God and I will point my rear towards that direction.

And there is no need to pray at a certain time of the day. Nor is there a need to prostrate yourself on the ground to pray. Nor is there a need for women to be segregated from men when they pray. Nor is there a need to make a public spectacle of yourself when you pray. Nor is there a need to demand special accommodations to pray. All of these things were only commands of sinful men.

God hears your prayer whether you a sitting, standing, kneeling or walking. God hears you prayers in private places and public places. God hears the prayers of women and men together. God hears your prayers when your eyes are open or when they are closed.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Proclaimed by whom? The Qur'an or the monarchy itself? Does the monarchy follow the law in the Qur'an? Do none of them drink alcohol? Do they receive no interest on their personal savings? Where is their wealth invested in? Women have no rights there, poor have no rights, foreigners, even if Muslims, have very little rights there. You need to check their jails to see what kind of people they are keeping there without giving them their rights. That is not implementing sharia law.
Let me make this very very simple. The question was: Are there Islamic countries? The statement made was that there are none despite the fact that there are majority Muslim countries that follow sharia law. I categorize countries that are Islamic if their laws are based specifically from Islamic doctrine i.e., sharia law. Saudi Arabia qualifies, as do several other nations. Do I believe you, or do I believe unbiased, academic research sources?
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
Let me make this very very simple. The question was: Are there Islamic countries? The statement made was that there are none despite the fact that there are majority Muslim countries that follow sharia law. I categorize countries that are Islamic if their laws are based specifically from Islamic doctrine i.e., sharia law. Saudi Arabia qualifies, as do several other nations. Do I believe you, or do I believe unbiased, academic research sources?
To qualify as being Sharia The laws must be in full aocord with one of the 4 Madhabs (Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki or Hanbali) no nation is doing such. Those claiming to be following a Madhab use either parts or follow a non-recognized madhab such as Wahhabi or Jafa'ari.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
To qualify as being Sharia The laws must be in full aocord with one of the 4 Madhabs (Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki or Hanbali) no nation is doing such. Those claiming to be following a Madhab use either parts or follow a non-recognized madhab such as Wahhabi or Jafa'ari.
The original statement was the Israel is a Jewish nation and that there were no Muslim nations. By my definition, a "Muslim country" must be majority Muslim and follow Islamic, or Sharia law. There are a number of nations that would fit that criteria according to independent, academic resources. The nations are certainly as much "Islamic" as Israel is "Jewish".
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:06 AM
 
4,426 posts, read 1,648,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
And there is no need to pray at a certain time of the day. Nor is there a need to prostrate yourself on the ground to pray. Nor is there a need for women to be segregated from men when they pray. Nor is there a need to make a public spectacle of yourself when you pray. Nor is there a need to demand special accommodations to pray. All of these things were only commands of sinful men.
So these are mostly your personal opinions and preferences, that sit well with your own ideology of a religion.
You are more than welcome to follow a faith where all this is not implemented.

You can follow a religion that does not suggest to pray at a certain time of the day, does not suggest to prostrate, not suggests a special and designated area for the females to pray in a house of worship, restricts you from praying in public etc. You can pray and worship, only inside a locked restroom for all you want, and see if anyone cares?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post

God hears your prayer whether you a sitting, standing, kneeling or walking. God hears you prayers in private places and public places. God hears the prayers of women and men together. God hears your prayers when your eyes are open or when they are closed.
This is true to a great extent, however, God has also prescribed a proper way of formal worship and pray in many religions. Otherwise, you are more than welcome to start a campaign to eliminate all Churches, Synagogues, Mosques, Temples, etc from the face of earth.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
And there is no need to pray at a certain time of the day. Nor is there a need to prostrate yourself on the ground to pray. Nor is there a need for women to be segregated from men when they pray. Nor is there a need to make a public spectacle of yourself when you pray. Nor is there a need to demand special accommodations to pray. All of these things were only commands of sinful men.
Correct! Commands definitely by sinful men.

There is need to pray at certain times of the day. There a need to prostrate yourself on the ground to pray. There need for women to be segregated from men when they pray although it can be done together. There is nothing wrong in praying at a public place. There is a need to create a known place to pray together in a community. All of these actions are of peaceful people and are for a good reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
God hears your prayer whether you a sitting, standing, kneeling or walking. God hears you prayers in private places and public places. God hears the prayers of women and men together. God hears your prayers when your eyes are open or when they are closed.
God hears your prayer whether you are sitting, standing, kneeling, prostrating, walking, horse riding, swimming, eating, drinking water or doing gardening . God hears your prayers in private places and public places. God hears the prayers of women and men together and separately. God hears your prayers when your eyes are open or when they are closed.

[2.186] And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way.
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