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Old 10-20-2017, 12:24 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
I would need an explanation about it, indeed.

Who is the first muslim?
[6:14] Say, “Is it other than Allah I should take as a protector, Creator of the heavens and the earth, while it is He who feeds and is not fed?” Say, [O Muhammad], “Indeed, I have been commanded to be the first [among you] who submit [to Allah] and [was commanded], ‘Do not ever be of the polytheists.’ ”
=> Mahomet

(2:127) And (remember) when Ibrahim (Abraham) and (his son) Isma’il (Ishmael) were raising the foundations of the House (the Ka’bah at Makkah), (saying), “Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily! You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.”
=>Abraham

(3:67) Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah]. And he was not of the polytheists.
=>Abraham

(26:51) Indeed, we aspire that our Lord will forgive us our sins because we were the first of the believers.”
=>random egyptian
4 verses:

6:14 says that Muhammad was to be the first of those in Mecca to submit to Allah/God and never to be polytheist.

2:127 says nothing about anyone being Muslim.

3:67 does say that Abraham was a "mus'liman" ("Muslim" in English) because he had submitted to Allah/God.

26:51 doesn't say that the "random Egyptian" became Muslimeen (muslims) but momineen (believers).

Is this explanation good enough for you?
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:26 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 384,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
4 verses:

6:14 says that Muhammad was to be the first of those in Mecca to submit to Allah/God and never to be polytheist.

2:127 says nothing about anyone being Muslim.

3:67 does say that Abraham was a "mus'liman" ("Muslim" in English) because he had submitted to Allah/God.

26:51 doesn't say that the "random Egyptian" became Muslimeen (muslims) but momineen (believers).

Is this explanation good enough for you?
Of course not.

2:127=> It say "raising the findation of islam, therefore being muslim.

36:51 => the first of the believers.

So who is the first muslim?

Last edited by citoyen; 10-20-2017 at 01:35 AM..
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
Of course not.

2:127=> It say "raising the findation of islam, therefore being muslim.

36:51 => the first of the believers.

So who is the first muslim?
2:127 read it properly, raising the foundation of the House is not raising the foundations of islam. It is also not being muslim but being builder.

36:51 the first of "believers" in the message of Moses does not mean being first of the "muslims".

A "muslim" is something or someone who submits to God/Allah. Do you who or what submitted to God first?

If you know the answer, you know the answer to your own question.

[3.83] Is it then other than Allah's religion that they seek (to follow), and to Him submits whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned.

Do you know the first to submit to Allah in the heavens and the earth? May be Jesus? Yes?
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:52 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 384,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
2:127 read it properly, raising the foundation of the House is not raising the foundations of islam. It is also not being muslim but being builder.
So you think the word house dosen't describe islam. What is the signification of the word house here? Is it literrally an house?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
36:51 the first of "believers" in the message of Moses does not mean being first of the "muslims".

A "muslim" is something or someone who submits to God/Allah. Do you who or what submitted to God first?

If you know the answer, you know the answer to your own question.

[3.83] Is it then other than Allah's religion that they seek (to follow), and to Him submits whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned.

Do you know the first to submit to Allah in the heavens and the earth? May be Jesus? Yes?

Abraham was the first submitted to god? So is he the first muslim?
Or is it mahomet.
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:59 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 384,838 times
Reputation: 650
"Those who believe [in the Qur.an], and those who follow the Jewish [Scriptures], and the Christians and the Sabians, any one who believe in God and the last day, and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Sura 2:62).


"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam he will be in the ranks of those who have lost all spiritualgood" (Sura 3:85)
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Old 10-20-2017, 04:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
So you think the word house dosen't describe islam. What is the signification of the word house here? Is it literrally an house?
Ka'aba is called the house الْبَيْتَ as it is a building.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
Abraham was the first submitted to god? So is he the first muslim?
Or is it mahomet.
The name is not "Mahomet" but "Muhammad" مُحَمَّد . Do you understand that?

Abraham was the first of the people around him (polytheists) to submit to Allah and Muhammad was the first of the people around him (polytheists) to submit to Allah.

Why are you having trouble in understanding something that even my 7 year old grandson can understand?
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Old 10-20-2017, 04:22 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 384,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Ka'aba is called the house الْبَيْتَ as it is a building.
So you are telling it's "Ibrahim (Abraham) and (his son) Isma’il (Ishmael)" who start building ka'aba



Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The name is not "Mahomet" but "Muhammad" مُحَمَّد . Do you understand that?
Mahomet is wiedly use, but who cares? Does it changes something?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Abraham was the first of the people around him (polytheists) to submit to Allah and Muhammad was the first of the people around him (polytheists) to submit to Allah.

Why are you having trouble in understanding something that even my 7 year old grandson can understand?
I will pass on the insult...

So Abraham was the first muslim as he was the first to submit to Allah?
Around Muhammad were not only polytheists, there were also christians and jews at this time in the region. Weren't them people of the book?
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Old 10-20-2017, 04:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
"Those who believe [in the Qur.an], and those who follow the Jewish [Scriptures], and the Christians and the Sabians, any one who believe in God and the last day, and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Sura 2:62).

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam he will be in the ranks of those who have lost all spiritualgood" (Sura 3:85)
Deuteronomy 6:17
Be sure to keep the commands of the Lord your God and the stipulations and decrees he has given you.

Exodus 12:24
Obey these instructions as a lasting ordinance for you and your descendants.

Matthew 19:17
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

Submitting to Allah/God is done by obeying Him by keeping the commands. Keeping the commands and working accordingly is called "submission" to Allah (al-islam in Arabic).

That's what Abraham did and Moses did and Muhammad did. Religion of them all was obeying God, submitting to God, keeping His commandments and it is called "al islam" in Arabic.

And you still haven't answered my question, who or what is the first one in the heavens and the earth to submit to God/Allah? Perhaps Jesus?

Luke 22:42
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

Isn't Jesus submitting to God? That's why he too was a "muslim" (in Arabic).

[Qur'an 2.112] Yes! Whoever submits himself entirely to Allah and he is the doer of good (to others) he has his reward from his Lord, and there is no fear for him nor shall he grieve.

Now you can do the same in kind and tell me where is the name of your religion in your scriptures. Fair enough?
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Old 10-20-2017, 04:55 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
So you are telling it's "Ibrahim (Abraham) and (his son) Isma’il (Ishmael)" who start building ka'aba
Did you not read it in the Qur'aan and quoted here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
Mahomet is wiedly use, but who cares? Does it changes something?
It was used by the ignorant crusaders who thought Mahomet was a great big idol in Mecca. We don't use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
I will pass on the insult...
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones at other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
So Abraham was the first muslim as he was the first to submit to Allah?
You say so; not I.


Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
Around Muhammad were not only polytheists, there were also christians and jews at this time in the region. Weren't them people of the book?
In the region is not the same as around him. There were no churches or synagogues in Mecca at the time. They were all worshiping idols in and around Ka'aba. Therefore, he was the first one in Mecca at the time to submit to Allah.
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Old 10-20-2017, 05:25 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 384,838 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
And you still haven't answered my question, who or what is the first one in the heavens and the earth to submit to God/Allah? Perhaps Jesus?
As I'am not a beleiver, the question doesn't have much sens for me.
But I will answear Abraham.
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