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Old 12-28-2017, 08:35 AM
 
226 posts, read 123,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
We are a long way away from having full control of everyone's genetic make up. We mat never reach a stage where we can produce perfect designer babies at will.

Genetic manipulation is a limited field used for medical purposes only. We may never reach a stage where the whole genetic make up could be manipulated to create a flawless human being with every gene a perfect gene and risk-free healthy human.
But let's say with genetic screening it's safe-ish for a brother and sister to have children... So that's not incest then? Just because of how you calculate the medical risks in comparison to mature women?

Or what if it's relatively safe for an uncle to marry his niece, do we support Jewish law on that point then?
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
But let's say with genetic screening it's safe-ish for a brother and sister to have children... So that's not incest then?
It is still incest.

Incest: sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other.
the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild.

Crime means, against the law rather than something not "safe-ish".

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
Or what if it's relatively safe for an uncle to marry his niece, do we support Jewish law on that point then?
It depends on at what level they are uncle and niece. Brothers' daughter and sisters' daughter are forbidden for marriage in the Qur'an.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
It is still incest.

Incest: sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other.
the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild.

Crime means, against the law rather than something not "safe-ish".

It depends on at what level they are uncle and niece. Brothers' daughter and sisters' daughter are forbidden for marriage in the Qur'an.
Ok then, it follows that you can't just appeal to scientific evidence on the risks of first cousins having children, as you accept that such evidence doesn't necessarily mean much.

Islam allows it. The modern Western world has broadly rejected it.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
Ok then, it follows that you can't just appeal to scientific evidence on the risks of first cousins having children, as you accept that such evidence doesn't necessarily mean much.

Islam allows it. The modern Western world has broadly rejected it.
The modern Western world has not completely rejected it. Cousin marriages are accepted in many parts of the modern Western world.

As for Islam (the Qur'an to be correct) allowing it, it is not clearly stated in that term for the Muslims at large. It allows only for the prophet during a specific situation (at the time of hijrah). There are other things allowed for the prophet that are not allowed for the Muslims at large. So the best way to understand this issue from the Qur'anic point of view is that the cousin marriages are neither forbidden nor clearly allowed for the Muslims at large. There is, therefore, room for the Muslims to go along with the findings through the science and avoid succession of first cousin marriages in the same family group.

My personal view, therefore, is that succession of first cousin marriages in the same family group should be avoided but odd first cousin marriage is not risky.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:03 PM
Status: "Stand with Hong Kong" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 7,711,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Gay couple? Which one is wife and which one is husband? According to the couple, both are each other's husband. Husband with no wife. Can you be husband of your husband? What happens to the "thy wedded wife"? And which one will bear children? No children mean end of the mankind eventually. Which one is going to be called "mommy" and which one "daddy"? I see two daddies in this family but no mommy.

Anything that leads to the end of mankind on earth should be opposed. We all have right of opinion, don't we? Why should others force us to accept their opinion? If anyone wants to do something, it's his/her right but don't force others to do the same.

There is no same sex marriage in Islam. Islamically, no wordings exist that can be used to marry two men or two women. Islamic requirements for marriage are two; Nikah and Haq Mehr. Nikah is always between a man and a woman. Haq Mehr is always given by the husband to his wife and never the other way round. If any of these requirements are not met the marriage cannot be a valid marriage in Islam, and therefore in the mosque. This rules out any such marriage in Islam and therefore in a mosque. Mosques are community centres. These are run by the community. It is the community that decides what happens in there.

Worshiping idols is legal in the UK. Muslims are not going to stop anyone worshiping idols in the UK but idol worshiping can't be forced on Muslims and in mosques in the UK. The same goes for drinking alcohol. It's legal but Muslims have the choice not to drink it. Making such choice is also legal in the UK.

By the way, one can't be a Muslim by doing un-Islamic acts.
I am going to repeat the question:

Are there any progressive mosques? If not, why not? Is it that whole bida thing ya'll were talking about?

I look forward to learning if all five schools of Shari'a agree on this point and whether there are those who disagree.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:19 PM
 
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Discussions of homosexuality is a taboo subject in traditional Islam, esp with gay relationships.

Of course there are organisations for gay Muslims, just as there are gay Christian organisations. Even so gay rights is a new phenomena in the world. After all it was no so long ago that homosexuality was illegal in much of the Western World.
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:33 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
I am going to repeat the question:

Are there any progressive mosques? If not, why not? Is it that whole bida thing ya'll were talking about?

I look forward to learning if all five schools of Shari'a agree on this point and whether there are those who disagree.
A mosque is not an organisation like a church but a "masjid" ("place where one prostrates in worship"). A mosque can be used for sorting out community problems and needs. Other than that, I am not sure what makes a mosque "progressive".
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