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The other day I came upon Surah 87 "Al-A'la". My Quran translates this as "The Most High". Almost immediately I had an "a ha!" moment. Could this surah be the origin of the word "Allah"? I listened to some people say this out loud just to make sure I wasn't "hearing" it incorrectly with my American brain. And when they said it, I did hear "Allah". This being the origin of "Allah" fits in with things from both of your comments. If people were practicing polytheism at the time of Muhammad, then saying the one true god is "the most high" god makes perfect sense. Muhammad's father being named Abdullah in the context of Surah 87 also makes more sense than his name being translated to "servant of the deity". "Servant of the most high" sounds better. I also want to note that black people are the only people I've ever known to refer to god as "the most high". Interesting discussion indeed.
[87:1] The High or The (most) High الْأَعْلَى alaAAla
[2:255] He is the Most High الْعَلِيُّ alAAaliyyu.
In the same verse, the first word is اللَّه Allah.
Both words are written differently, pronounced differently and mean differently.
[34:23] He is the Most High الْعَلِيُّ alAAaliyyu
[79:24] The Most High الْأَعْلَىٰ alaAAla
[92:20] The Most High الْأَعْلَىٰ alaAAla
So the words like Allahu Akbar (God is Great) or Lord the Most High are for glorification. Other words like Rehman and Raheem are used for His praise.
These are all to do with His attributes. God (Allah) is known by His attributes rather than any particular name.
[20.8] Allah -- there is no god but He; His are the very best names.
[59.24] He is Allah the Creator (alkhaliq), the Maker (albar), the Fashioner (almusawwir); His are the most excellent names; whatever is in the heavens and the earth declares His glory; and He is the Mighty (alAAazeez), the Wise (alhakeem).
The above verse should explain different words used for God's names as His attributes. "alaAAla" is the same way an attribute of Allah rather than it is the same as Allah. If pronouced properly, you can clearly tell the difference.
By the way, EVERY Muslim glorifies the name of their Lord during prostration using the word alaAAla (the most high). High here doesn't mean high in height but in attribute (by glorifying Him most highly).
That was most insightful and I was very excited to read your great reply.
I believe that you are very incorrect about this idea that the Arabians already believed or knew about the identity of what Mohammad later inserted into the Arabian world concerning “ Allah “ having a meaning as to be the only one single deity or God. I would like to prove this to be utterly incorrect.
Can you please explain - Why is it that you imagine or pretend that Mohammad’s father and his father’s parents who named his father as - Abd - Allah would have found the God Of Abraham so popular and well – liked - among the pagan tribesmen of Mohammad’s family ? And popular to pagan Arabians who surrounded the area. ?
Don’t you think that their family business would have been completely ruined and devastated and bankrupted, by naming someone who served in family business of the pagan temple after the God Of Abraham. ?
Whom is it - in Mecca - or among these Pagan Arabian Peoples that you are so convinced that they being completely aware of what the word “ ALLAH “ means - to think that it somehow these people just knew or believed - that this was referring to the ONE AND ONLY GOD. Mohammad, at first did not even introduce “ Allah “ as the God Of Abraham and the Torah. He simply introduced the foreign idea - that there was only one God.
In 622 - Mohammad was literally forcibly, violently kicked out of Mecca because he was attempting to introduce blasphemy and heresy and problems for the community who hated and detested the God Of Abraham - his wild and insane Idea - of The God Of Abraham. Mohammad also form an organized community in Mecca of worshipers of THE ONLY GOD - Allah The God Of Abraham.
Why would these pagans who hate and detest the idea of ONLY one God - why would they name their son after the God Of Abraham / The Hebrew God = meaning - Allah, meaning the ONLY TRUE GOD - NO OTHER GODS - = Allah “ - if everyone around you, your entire business is revolving around making money selling services and worship centered around every pagan deity that could make a profit ?
This is the type falsehood that Islam demands that people believe.
We are asked to believe that Allah was always the same meaning, the same deity, Allah served the same purpose and was always the same old God that was presented in the Bible.
When Mohammad even just simply introduced the thought, the idea and began speaking about this concept = Mecca rolled in disgust and horror and drove him and his friends out from among them. Mohammad’s own FAMILY rejected him.
His own uncle “ Abu Talib “ demanded “ if Mohammed wanted to be the leader we will let him be the leader { if he will stop calling for Islam.” } I'm afraid to be blamed or insulted or I would have followed you and announced it. “
Mohammad’s uncle “ Abu Talib “ was not declaring that he would announce and declare and follow ISLAM - because it was truth - but because it was just another religion to make money from, but it was not accepted among his tribe - he was afraid his reputation and business and entire livelihood would be completely destroyed.
When his uncle “ Abu Talib “ was about to die , Muhammad asked him to pronounce the Shahadah. But one of Quraysh's tribal polytheist, said to Abu Talib “ Will you die on the religion of Abdel Mutalib [, the father of Abu Talib, ] or not?
Then Abu Talib pronounced his faith ONLY in the pagan religion of “ Abdel Mutalib “ and died. - rejecting any notion, any IDEA - that the concept of “ Allah “ was anything related to the idea of - THE ONLY DEITY.
And you are here to tell us that Mohammad’s family and tribesmen all knowingly knew that they had named their son as “ Abd – Allah “ to indicate that there was only one God - alone ?
This is preposterous and completely impossible, don’t you think ?
The Fact is -: The Kaaba was the name of the pagan temple in the city of Mecca that held the 360 pagan idols. - Murrah ibn " Ka'b " - was Mohammad’ s great, great, great, great, great grand - father. He was also named after this Pagan Temple - His last name was The " Kaa'b " indicating = Kaaba.
Also the name " lib Baal " - comes from the pagan god = " Ag - libol " - Ag - libaal was a Pre - Islamic Pagan god. - Ag - libaal - was a lunar deity. His name means "Calf / leg of Bel" (" Calf of the Lord"). Leg of the god = " lib Baal " –
The revelation of The Quran declares that one of the few body parts that " ALLAH " has - is a shin. - the shin is located just behind the calf muscle. The LEG OF ALLAH - is also mentioned as one of the few body parts of The God Of Islam. The Arabian Pagan god = " Ag - Libaal " is depicted with a lunar halo decorating his head and sometimes his shoulders, and one of his attributes is the sickle moon.
Mohammad spends his entire life looking for ways to redirect and re – insert the OLD pre - Islamic paganism into his religion in order to gain new converts and grow in numbers and popularity and expand his religion.
" Hubbaa " bint Hulail - was Mohammad's great-great-great-grandfather. = " Hub -baal and " was the main and the very top - Pre - Islamic Pagan god, worshipped by the Quraysh ( Mohammad’ s very own family ) at the Kaaba in Mecca. This idol was a human figure that controlled divination and power.
Would you realize that any comparison between Islam and Quran evaluated and compared to the Law of Moses and Torah / Gospels - in every last detail, every aspect - they are both a very distant reality that oppose one another as invalid, incapable, unqualified claims of faith.
This means that one is telling the truth and the other is a total falsehood. They both declare the other to be a message from the wicked one.
But - In every detail, we see the prophecy and revelations and spiritual claims of the Bible { in the past and present - today } as the truth, these facts are a complete reality that have been proven and even now coming to pass, as fulfilled prophecy, fulfilled revelation.
Moderator cut: Bible quotes and references removed. they have no relevance in the Islam forum.
Moderator cut: References to Near East politics removed. This forum is about Islam.
But the Quran has no prophecies or revelations.
The very idea that the message Of Mohammad was a revelation or prophecy is completely false. Mohammad himself demanded that everything he taught, everything he believed, in Islam - All of these teachings, claims and statements were already present and existing in the Torah and the Gospels. How can these Islamic teachings and claims be considered as REVELATION and PROPHECY - if the very thing that Mohammad is saying, everything he is demanding to be truth - it already found in the pages of the Bible. - This is not what a prophet does………..
How is this making Mohammad a prophet ? - to make claims, statements, announcements and declarations - then claim that all of these same exact teachings are all already found written in the very Bible that he is holding in his very hands ? This is not a revelation and prophecy. It has nothing to do with revelation and prophecy.
If I was holding a book in my hand and proceed to tell you what is written in this book while demanding that I am giving you a spiritually received revelation and prophecy - I am not receiving anything that requires a revealed prophecy of future or past events and hidden truths and forgotten laws and ordinances.
Everything about Mohammad’s ministry is orbiting around the present. All we see are things like - How many times should I have sex tonight. What kind of women do I need to have sexual experiences within in a month or two from now. How do I convince my jealous wife to allow me to have sex with her sensuous slave girl. How much camel urine should we drink, how many flies do we dip into our food and drink. What is the least amount of prayers that Muslims have to pray. Should we pass gas during prayer.
The so - called revelations of the Quran are not revealing and prophesying anything whatsoever concerning events that had not already happened. All of these things were already happening.
We see - The prophecy of The Last day, "When will the Hour be?' He said: 'When the slave woman gives birth to her mistress' (Waki' said: This means when non-Arabs will give birth to Arabs") 'and when you see barefoot, naked, destitute shepherds competing in constructing tall buildings.
But this had been going on since thousands of years before Mohammad. Shepherds and slaves and farmers had been constructing tall building thousands of years before Mohammad. Just because a handful of shepherds have lost their shoes and have little clothing to wear this year - suddenly the end times are very near ? And slave girls have been having sex with their masters and their masters sons since the beginning of time. Are we to believe that never before had a slave or a WORKER given birth to a child and that child grew up to later have some type of authority over their parents or fellow slaves?
This happened in every culture on earth long before Mohammad. It is still happening today, even here in the USA. Just because Mohammad had never allowed it, suddenly it is some great revelation ?
Other So – Called prophecy - or revelation of Mohammad was that - The hour will not come until there has been rain which will destroy all dwellings except tents.”
And - a time will come when there will be much corruption on Earth and the trust will be taken from people ” And - The hour will not arrive until the hot will encompass the cold” And - “The day of judgment will not arrive until the people will take women as leaders” And - “When the sky is full of rain and hearts are dark, then the brightest lights will shine again.” And - “Women will increase in number and men will decrease in number so much so that fifty women will be looked after by one man.
These are not prophecies and revelations of hidden things that are to come in the future - all of these things already existed long before Mohammad was born. Things like - The Hour will not come until the buttocks of the women of Daws move whilst going around Dhu l-Khalasah [an idol].” (Bukhari)
But this specific idol no longer exists today. This is a total false statement. The prophecies and revelations of Muhammad are not insight to hidden revealed knowledge or divine prescience
Moderator cut: More Biblical references removed.
That Pre Islamic Pagan Arabians would name their son - the very father of Mohammad - as Abd – Allah, yet they are fully aware here of what they are doing - and that Allah is specifically the phrase for the - God of Abraham and the Torah ? History shows that they would have never named their child such a name with this meaning - especially when they hated the very concept of a single deity who alone is god. This is why Mohammad was kicked out of Mecca. Because he was introducing this concept.
The word " allah " and its meaning was known to Arabs even before the revelation of the Qur'an. ?
The word Allah in fact was changed from a pagan deity and the female form of Allah is the Daughter Of Allah - Allat Allah had three daughters 1. Allaht 2. Allah – Uzza and 3. Manaat ….
The term Allah - already applied to female deities and Mohammad was still worshiping them even after he destroyed their Idols and Images….
Moderator cut: References to Christians and Jews in Muslim countries removed. Reference to an Arabic translation of the Bible also removed. That is irrelevant to Islam.
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-05-2019 at 07:47 AM..
Reason: Portions unrelated to Islam have been removed.
That was most insightful and I was very excited to read your great reply.
I believe that you are very incorrect about this idea that the Arabians already believed or knew about the identity of what Mohammad later inserted into the Arabian world concerning “ Allah “ having a meaning as to be the only one single deity or God. I would like to prove this to be utterly incorrect.
Can you please explain - Why is it that you imagine or pretend that Mohammad’s father and his father’s parents who named his father as - Abd - Allah would have found the God Of Abraham so popular and well – liked - among the pagan tribesmen of Mohammad’s family ? And popular to pagan Arabians who surrounded the area. ?
Don’t you think that their family business would have been completely ruined and devastated and bankrupted, by naming someone who served in family business of the pagan temple after the God Of Abraham. ?
Whom is it - in Mecca - or among these Pagan Arabian Peoples that you are so convinced that they being completely aware of what the word “ ALLAH “ means - to think that it somehow these people just knew or believed - that this was referring to the ONE AND ONLY GOD. Mohammad, at first did not even introduce “ Allah “ as the God Of Abraham and the Torah. He simply introduced the foreign idea - that there was only one God.
In 622 - Mohammad was literally forcibly, violently kicked out of Mecca because he was attempting to introduce blasphemy and heresy and problems for the community who hated and detested the God Of Abraham - his wild and insane Idea - of The God Of Abraham. Mohammad also form an organized community in Mecca of worshipers of THE ONLY GOD - Allah The God Of Abraham.
Why would these pagans who hate and detest the idea of ONLY one God - why would they name their son after the God Of Abraham / The Hebrew God = meaning - Allah, meaning the ONLY TRUE GOD - NO OTHER GODS - = Allah “ - if everyone around you, your entire business is revolving around making money selling services and worship centered around every pagan deity that could make a profit ?
This is the type falsehood that Islam demands that people believe.
We are asked to believe that Allah was always the same meaning, the same deity, Allah served the same purpose and was always the same old God that was presented in the Bible.
When Mohammad even just simply introduced the thought, the idea and began speaking about this concept = Mecca rolled in disgust and horror and drove him and his friends out from among them. Mohammad’s own FAMILY rejected him.
I won't go into details about Jewish history or the holy land or anything to do with Arab/Israel politics of today.
I will stick to answering the questions raised above in your post.
If you try to understand the difference between introducing One God and rejecting many gods (idols as gods) then you will understand the message of the Qur'an better.
The Meccan business depended on many gods. They knew Allah means al-ilah (the god = God). They didn't go against Muhammad for preaching worship of One God (Allah) but for rejecting and not worshipping their many other gods (idols).
[23.82] They say: What! When we are dead and become dust and bones, shall we then be raised?
[23.83] Certainly we are promised this, and (so were) our fathers aforetime; this is naught but stories of those of old.
[23.84] Say: Whose is the earth, and whoever is therein, if you know?
[23.85] They will say: Allah's. Say: Will you not then mind?
[23.86] Say: Who is the Lord of the seven heavens and the Lord of the mighty dominion?
[23.87] They will say: (This is) Allah's. Say: Will you not then be conscious of Him?
[23.88] Say: Who is it in Whose hand is the kingdom of all things and Who gives succor, but against Him Succor is not given, if you do but know?
[23.89] They will say: (This is) Allah's. Say: From whence are you then deceived?
Yes, they were aware of Allah (God) but had also created other gods making their religion polytheism.
They were interacting with and doing business with Jews and Christians so were aware of their God too.
Muhammad never said that I am introducing a new concept of One God. His message was to reject false gods (idols as gods).
That was most insightful and I was very excited to read your great reply.
I believe that you are very incorrect about this idea that the Arabians already believed or knew about the identity of what Mohammad later inserted into the Arabian world concerning “ Allah “ having a meaning as to be the only one single deity or God. I would like to prove this to be utterly incorrect.
If it had been “utterly incorrect”, you would have said, “I know it is utterly incorrect” rather than stating, “I believe that you are very incorrect”.
The word “allah” in Arabic is al-ilah. Al (the) and ilah (god). There is no capital letter in Arabic. This means “the god” is not the same as “god”. In English “the god” becomes “God” and “al-ilah” in Arabic becomes “allah”. If someone doesn’t want to try to understand it, it’s not my problem.
Can you please explain - Why is it that you imagine or pretend that Mohammad’s father and his father’s parents who named his father as - Abd - Allah would have found the God Of Abraham so popular and well – liked - among the pagan tribesmen of Mohammad’s family ? And popular to pagan Arabians who surrounded the area. ?
As explained in one of my previous posts, they knew what is meant by “allah”. Polytheism is using idols as additional gods. Islam is pure monotheism.
Don’t you think that their family business would have been completely ruined and devastated and bankrupted, by naming someone who served in family business of the pagan temple after the God Of Abraham. ?
What family business? What was business in the pagan temple?
The only way idol business could fold up was if there were no idols left. Naming someone after “allah” doesn’t fold up any idol business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imposcemathem
Whom is it - in Mecca - or among these Pagan Arabian Peoples that you are so convinced that they being completely aware of what the word “ ALLAH “ means - to think that it somehow these people just knew or believed - that this was referring to the ONE AND ONLY GOD.
You misunderstand!
They believed that there was “allah” but they also were believing in other gods too. Revelation of the Qur’an declared:
[59.22] He is Allah ( اللَّه) besides Whom there is no god (إِلَٰه = ilah); the Knower of the unseen and the seen; He is the Beneficent (الرَّحْمَٰن = al-rehman pronounced as ar-rehman), the Merciful (الرَّحِيم = al-reheem pronounced as ar-reheem).
هُوَ اللَّهُ الَّذِي لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۖ عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ ۖ هُوَ الرَّحْمَٰنُ الرَّحِيمُ
Mohammad, at first did not even introduce “ Allah “ as the God Of Abraham and the Torah. He simply introduced the foreign idea - that there was only one God.
Idea of only one God was not a foreign idea. Jews and Christians had introduced it in Arabia already. To those Pagans, “there is no other god” was the foreign concept.
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Al - Laah The Laaaah - Of Mecca.
