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Old 04-13-2008, 08:16 PM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,456,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtrash View Post
I wish other Muslims believed this and only practiced "symbolic" terroistic murders.
That would be a miracle.

Why does Allah not back up his word with love and good works but instead allows so much evil in his name? Is he asleep? Pacifist? Scared?
Excuse me if I jump in but Christians ask this about their
own God all the time.
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Old 04-13-2008, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Southern Ca
756 posts, read 2,336,566 times
Reputation: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtrash View Post
I wish other Muslims believed this and only practiced "symbolic" terroistic murders.
That would be a miracle.

Why does Allah not back up his word with love and good works but instead allows so much evil in his name? Is he asleep? Pacifist? Scared?
dead...........
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Old 04-14-2008, 06:39 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,747 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
With all due respect, elwill, have you forgotten 9\11 and Pan Am flight 103 to name two. Those were all innocent people, regardless of what you think of their governments.
i didn't forget it , but i told you that islam and muslims refused these acts.
and to be honost with you i'm not convinced that bin laden is responsible for that , but if he actually did that , i blame him

beside islam is exist from 1500 years , and you mentioned for me 2 accedents !!! , it's not enough to claim that this is teaches of islam.

For more than a thousand years, churches and synagogues rested peacefully alongside the mosques throughout the Islámic world. Now, ask yourself, while we're on the subject of tolerance, how many mosques were there anywhere in Christian Europe during that time? Who can forget the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition?

whatever , have you forget innocent people in palastine and iraq and bosna, kashmeer , Chichan and Heroshema regardless of what you think of thier governments

Quote:
I am interested that you say that Muslims do not agree with terrorist acts on innocents, yet after 9/11 we saw Muslim people celebrating in the streets. Was these people in the minority, and if so what do the majority of Muslims do against those that would perpetrate terrorism on the West?
Sadly, terrorism and Islám have become so closely connected in the Western mindset, and this is not by accident. There are some people with a dark agenda, who seek to discredit the good name of Islám, and who consider Islám to be a threat to their global ambitions. There are, sadly, also some misguided Muslims who are playing directly into their hands, by committing acts of violence that are totally forbidden by The Holy Qur'án and the prophetic Sunnah. As to why they commit these acts of terror, the reasons can be debated, but never justified.

you ask me what do the majority of Muslims do against those that would perpetrate terrorism on the West?
well , we refused these actions to be in the name of islam.
Sura Al Ma-ida, [ch5:32], The Holy Qur'án says,
“… if anyone kills a human being, unless it be [in legalized punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth, it shall be as though that person had slain the whole of humanity; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though one had saved the lives of all humanity”.

According to Sahih Bukhari the Prophet Muhammad sws said: “Whoever kills a Dhimmi [ a non-Muslim citizen of an Islámic State] is not even going to smell the fragrance of Paradise

In another important Hadith, the Prophet Muhammad sws, said:
“A Muslim is he from whose tongue and hands, other Muslims are safe; and a Mu’min, [a Believer] is he in whom all of Mankind has a sanctuary for its life and property”
Can you imagine that? Not only must other Muslims be safe from our words and our deeds, but the whole of mankind must feel safe in our custody!

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Old 04-14-2008, 07:14 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,747 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by accelerator View Post
Could you quote me some verses from the Koran.. that explain the true message of Jesus..?

What do you believe the true message of Jesus was ..?

-
mainly , the true massage is to worchip one God and obey him , and believe in jesus (pbuh) as a prophet and rightous slave for God

i mentioned many verses from quean in this thread about massage of jesus (pbuh)

from chapter 3
45-Behold the angels said: O Mary God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God
46- He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. and he shall be (of the company) of the righteous
47- She said: O my lord how shall i have a son when no man hath touched me? he said: even so: God createth what he willeth: when he hath decreed a plan, he but saith to it, be, and it is
48-And God will teach him the book and wisdom, the law and the gospel
49-And (appoint him) an apostle to the children of Israel, (with this message): i have come to you, with a sign from your lord, in that i make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: and i heal those born blind, and the lepers, and i quicken the dead, by God's leave; and i declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. surely therein is a sign for you if ye did believe
50 - (i have come to you), to attest the law which was before me. and to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; i have come to you with a sign from your lord. so fear God, and obey me
51 - It is God who is my lord and your lord; then worship him. this is a way that is straight
52 - When Jesus found unbelief on their part he said: who will be my helpers to (the work of) God? said the disciples: we are God's helpers: we believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims
53 - Our lord we believe in what thou hast revealed, and we follow the apostle; then write us down among those who bear witness
54 - And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and God too planned, and the best of planners is God
55 - Behold God said: O Jesus I will take thee and raise thee to myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the day of resurrection: then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute

from chapter 4
171-O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is AllSufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

chapter 19
36-(Iesa (Jesus) said): "And verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allahs Religion of Islamic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His Prophets)." (Tafsir At-Tabaree)

37-Then the sects differed (i.e. the Christians about Iesa (Jesus) ), so woe unto the disbelievers (those who gave false witness by saying that Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah) from the meeting of a great Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire).

and see also my first 2 posts
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:37 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,747 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtrash View Post
I wish other Muslims believed this and only practiced "symbolic" terroistic murders.
That would be a miracle.

Why does Allah not back up his word with love and good works but instead allows so much evil in his name? Is he asleep? Pacifist? Scared?
which muslims you mean?
is there terrorist muslims kill innocent people nowadays ?
i don't know any terrorist acts from mulims but london bombers and 9/11
whatever , the terrorist i see every day is from israil and USA in iraq who kills innocent civilian every day
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:48 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,295,367 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i didn't forget it , but i told you that islam and muslims refused these acts.
and to be honost with you i'm not convinced that bin laden is responsible for that , but if he actually did that , i blame him

beside islam is exist from 1500 years , and you mentioned for me 2 accedents !!! , it's not enough to claim that this is teaches of islam.

For more than a thousand years, churches and synagogues rested peacefully alongside the mosques throughout the Islámic world. Now, ask yourself, while we're on the subject of tolerance, how many mosques were there anywhere in Christian Europe during that time? Who can forget the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition?

whatever , have you forget innocent people in palastine and iraq and bosna, kashmeer , Chichan and Heroshema regardless of what you think of thier governments



Sadly, terrorism and Islám have become so closely connected in the Western mindset, and this is not by accident. There are some people with a dark agenda, who seek to discredit the good name of Islám, and who consider Islám to be a threat to their global ambitions. There are, sadly, also some misguided Muslims who are playing directly into their hands, by committing acts of violence that are totally forbidden by The Holy Qur'án and the prophetic Sunnah. As to why they commit these acts of terror, the reasons can be debated, but never justified.

you ask me what do the majority of Muslims do against those that would perpetrate terrorism on the West?
well , we refused these actions to be in the name of islam.
Sura Al Ma-ida, [ch5:32], The Holy Qur'án says,
“… if anyone kills a human being, unless it be [in legalized punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth, it shall be as though that person had slain the whole of humanity; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though one had saved the lives of all humanity”.

According to Sahih Bukhari the Prophet Muhammad sws said: “Whoever kills a Dhimmi [ a non-Muslim citizen of an Islámic State] is not even going to smell the fragrance of Paradise

In another important Hadith, the Prophet Muhammad sws, said:
“A Muslim is he from whose tongue and hands, other Muslims are safe; and a Mu’min, [a Believer] is he in whom all of Mankind has a sanctuary for its life and property”
Can you imagine that? Not only must other Muslims be safe from our words and our deeds, but the whole of mankind must feel safe in our custody!

Thank you again for your time and perspective......

In the US, the war in Iraq is not popular. People do protest against it, from having signs on their cars to gathering together in protest of the war. It is an issue with our presidential election, and I think its fair to say it is one of the main issues people will be voting on.
You have said that terrorism is not considered a just or a good thing by Muslims......could you clarify for me if there are any type of protests or are people holding their governments accountable for supporting terrorists in any way? For example, the Saudis are notorious for giving money to Al Quada.....how does the rest of the Muslim world view this? How does the Muslim world view Bin Laden?
Thank you for answering.
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Whiteville Tennessee
8,262 posts, read 16,384,096 times
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1-why do Muslims kill Bahais? A peaceful, loving religion!
2- What good is a DEAD VIRGIN?
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:55 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,747 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Thank you again for your time and perspective......

You have said that terrorism is not considered a just or a good thing by Muslims......could you clarify for me if there are any type of protests or are people holding their governments accountable for supporting terrorists in any way?
all muslims schoolars and all government , even scientists of islam from saudia are protests the terrorism actions against civilian people , may be the media or governments ignore or hide it in the west , but in fact we protests any violents against innocent people
U.S. Muslims issue ‘fatwa’ against terrorism - U.S. news - MSNBC.com
Fatwa against terrorism and urging public to report suspects (http://www.saudiembassy.net/2004News/Press/PressDetail.asp?cIndex=217 - broken link)
U.S. Muslim Religious Council Issues Fatwa Against Terrorism

Quote:
For example, the Saudis are notorious for giving money to Al Quada.....how does the rest of the Muslim world view this? How does the Muslim world view Bin Laden?
Thank you for answering.
i will tell you my personal openion
in the start we were consider Osama bn laden freedom fighter , his aims was for free the islamic countries which invaded as palstine and chichan and iraq lately . most of his attacks was against military power , not innocent or civilian people , so muslims were support him and giving him money

since he starts to lead his fights against innocents , we think that he astray or misleaded , so many fatwas issued against him according to his fight against civilians .

Last edited by elwill; 04-14-2008 at 01:04 PM..
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:05 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,747 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Dan View Post
1-why do Muslims kill Bahais? A peaceful, loving religion!
2- What good is a DEAD VIRGIN?
i don't know anything about that
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:15 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,295,367 times
Reputation: 2880
Thank you again, Elwill for sharing your insight of Islam with us. There are a lot of conflicting messages about Islam, and I hope that you bear with me and others who ask you questions.....in other words, I hope you don't feel insulted if it seems that you are being asked to defend Islam, or to deny that Muslims are violent. Those of us in the West can only rely on what we see on TV or in the newspapers, and it is so very rare that we can ask someone questions who is 'in the know'.

My next question is what does the Quran say about honor killings.......is this something justified in the Quran, or is it cultural.....and if it is cultural how do the men who do it get away with it under Sharia law?

Thank you.
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