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Old 06-10-2019, 02:31 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 100,221 times
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I've heard it said that at the end of the world all living things will die except God. And, even the angels, that are spiritual being will die as well. I have two questions.. How? And why?

The two Holy Angels are supposed to carry Jesus by the shoulders over Damascus on his Second Coming. The Angels will be highly involved in Jesus' redeeming of the world when he breaks the Cross and judges mankind. And Jesus will rule from Jerusalem for a period of time over all the earth after the Anti-Christ is defeated.

When will Jesus die and all other creatures die, including the Jinn and Angels? I thought that if Angels were only spiritual beings and could not die, how is this so? And also, why must all of Gods creatures experience death?

This is what I believe... Just so you know where I am coming from with my question...

As a Christian, I believe Jesus will break the Cross. I believe Muhammad is the most important of all the Prophets, including Jesus. Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets of God. But, I believe Jesus is God, but Muhammad is of (far) greater importance.

Jesus brought the New Testament, but Muhammad brought us the Final Testament. The Words of Allah the Father are Greater than those of Jesus. He(Allah the Father) is far above having a Son. God is not Three but One! Mathematics proves the Trinity in Pi(3.14). The mystery of Pi is solved as a Christian I believe.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:36 AM
 
10,604 posts, read 15,711,378 times
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Worry not.
With all due respect to the Holy Q'Ran and, likely, interpretation of what is said in it, not a single living being, I am referring to the conscious ones, will ever die.
And I am not referring to the physical bodies, those are just garments we wear during appearance on Earth.

I am talking about the immortal Self that dwells in that body.

Nothing Self-conscious, from human being and up higher in development, is capable of dying, as in - perishing completely.

There have been, and will be, many "ends of the worlds". But that is for the physical, again. Nothing of the Great Consciousness ever "dies".
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:01 PM
 
3,169 posts, read 1,048,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I've heard it said that at the end of the world all living things will die except God. And, even the angels, that are spiritual being will die as well. I have two questions.. How? And why?
Only God is without a beginning and without an end.
That means, all living beings other than God had a beginning and will, therefore, have an end too. The second statement has to be true because the first statement is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
The two Holy Angels are supposed to carry Jesus by the shoulders over Damascus on his Second Coming. The Angels will be highly involved in Jesus' redeeming of the world when he breaks the Cross and judges mankind. And Jesus will rule from Jerusalem for a period of time over all the earth after the Anti-Christ is defeated.
This is not from God but human thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
When will Jesus die and all other creatures die, including the Jinn and Angels?
Nobody knows. Jesus may already be dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I thought that if Angels were only spiritual beings and could not die, how is this so?
Angels are not spiritual beings. They are created beings. Created from light.

[70.4] To Him ascend the angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ


Angels and the spirit are mentioned separately here rather than the same beings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
And also, why must all of Gods creatures experience death?
So that if you know that if a living being has a beginning then it can have an end too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
This is what I believe... Just so you know where I am coming from with my question...

As a Christian, I believe Jesus will break the Cross. I believe Muhammad is the most important of all the Prophets, including Jesus. Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets of God. But, I believe Jesus is God, but Muhammad is of (far) greater importance.
We are not to draw distinction between the messengers. All of them had a role given and they discharged their duty accordingly. We don't believe that Jesus was God or even begotten Son of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Jesus brought the New Testament, but Muhammad brought us the Final Testament. The Words of Allah the Father are Greater than those of Jesus. He(Allah the Father) is far above having a Son.
Correct. Jesus was given Injeel (Evangel = preachinng) and Muhammad was given the Qur'an (something that is recited often). Fundamental Message is the same. God is One, and obey Him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
God is not Three but One! Mathematics proves the Trinity in Pi(3.14). The mystery of Pi is solved as a Christian I believe.
Pi is not Trinity or God. It is an irrational number.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:14 PM
 
3,169 posts, read 1,048,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Worry not.
With all due respect to the Holy Q'Ran and, likely, interpretation of what is said in it, not a single living being, I am referring to the conscious ones, will ever die.
And I am not referring to the physical bodies, those are just garments we wear during appearance on Earth.

I am talking about the immortal Self that dwells in that body.
Self is not immortal. Every Self (Nafs in Arabic) must taste death (The Qur'an 3:185, 21:35, 29:57). Self is not Spirit. Self is individual Soul. Again, Soul is not the same as Spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Nothing Self-conscious, from human being and up higher in development, is capable of dying, as in - perishing completely.
You are never self-conscious at all times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
There have been, and will be, many "ends of the worlds". But that is for the physical, again. Nothing of the Great Consciousness ever "dies".
The Great Consciousness? Do you mean God?
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 100,221 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Only God is without a beginning and without an end.
That means, all living beings other than God had a beginning and will, therefore, have an end too. The second statement has to be true because the first statement is true.

This is not from God but human thought.

Nobody knows. Jesus may already be dead.

Angels are not spiritual beings. They are created beings. Created from light.

[70.4] To Him ascend the angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ


Angels and the spirit are mentioned separately here rather than the same beings.



So that if you know that if a living being has a beginning then it can have an end too.

We are not to draw distinction between the messengers. All of them had a role given and they discharged their duty accordingly. We don't believe that Jesus was God or even begotten Son of God.

Correct. Jesus was given Injeel (Evangel = preachinng) and Muhammad was given the Qur'an (something that is recited often). Fundamental Message is the same. God is One, and obey Him.

Pi is not Trinity or God. It is an irrational number.

I believe Pi goes on for all eternity. And, we(Angels, Jinn, and Men) are all numbers in endless Pi. But, the dot in 3.14 separates us from the Holy Trinity.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:21 AM
 
3,169 posts, read 1,048,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I believe Pi goes on for all eternity. And, we(Angels, Jinn, and Men) are all numbers in endless Pi. But, the dot in 3.14 separates us from the Holy Trinity.
That can't be true by your logic as long as one of the 3 that died is on this side of the dot. In fact, one of the other 2 also is endless like the endless figures on the right of the dot.

[31.27] And were every tree that is in the earth (made into) pens and the sea (to supply it with ink), with seven more seas to increase it, the words of Allah would not come to an end; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Spirit is Word/Command of our Lord.

Jesus was messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Mary and a spirit from Him (Qur'an 4:171)

That means, only One is True God. The rest is all created by Him.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 100,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That can't be true by your logic as long as one of the 3 that died is on this side of the dot. In fact, one of the other 2 also is endless like the endless figures on the right of the dot.

[31.27] And were every tree that is in the earth (made into) pens and the sea (to supply it with ink), with seven more seas to increase it, the words of Allah would not come to an end; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Spirit is Word/Command of our Lord.

Jesus was messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Mary and a spirit from Him (Qur'an 4:171)

That means, only One is True God. The rest is all created by Him.
Jesus didn't die! I believe it is Absolute Truth that he was crucified. But, the Greater Truth is that he did not die. It only appeared so.

Jesus himself said the he is The First, and The Last.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 100,221 times
Reputation: 113
I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. -(Jesus) Revelation 1:18

“Stop being afraid! I am The First and The Last, and the Living One; I was dead, and behold, I am alive forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and Hades” -(Jesus) Revelation 1:17-18
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:06 PM
 
3,169 posts, read 1,048,185 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Jesus didn't die! I believe it is Absolute Truth that he was crucified. But, the Greater Truth is that he did not die. It only appeared so.
According to the Qur'an 4:157, they did not kill him nor crucify him, it only appeared to them so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
Jesus himself said the he is The First, and The Last.
None of the 4 Gospel writers have stated that these words are of Jesus. These words are not in any of those 4 Gospels. They would have stated if Jesus had said so.
Even in the Revelation, these words can be interpreted as from God through the Spirit. All revelations/messages from God came to the messengers through the Spirit. Words of God are Spirit from God.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 100,221 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
According to the Qur'an 4:157, they did not kill him nor crucify him, it only appeared to them so.

None of the 4 Gospel writers have stated that these words are of Jesus. These words are not in any of those 4 Gospels. They would have stated if Jesus had said so.
Even in the Revelation, these words can be interpreted as from God through the Spirit. All revelations/messages from God came to the messengers through the Spirit. Words of God are Spirit from God.

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star(Sirius)".-(Revelation 22:16)

To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations--
that one 'will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery' --just as I have received authority from my Father I will also give that one the morning star.
-(Jesus) Revelation 2:26-28

Jesus is the Bright Morning Star(Sirius). Christians hope to become the Morning Star(Sun).
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