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Old 04-29-2008, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,914 posts, read 31,810,788 times
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So nice to have verses you can put your own personal interpretation on rather than take it at face value huh....Sorta like the bible that way...Never mind what it says, I'll just twist it around till it suits me.....Unbelievable!
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Old 04-29-2008, 03:44 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,492,385 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
So nice to have verses you can put your own personal interpretation on rather than take it at face value huh....Sorta like the bible that way...Never mind what it says, I'll just twist it around till it suits me.....Unbelievable!
More important than scriptures is the all knowing power of the soul, which allows you to understand God and religion, the truth is already contained within us, but we have to search in our inner self.

No sacred scripture was meant to be taken literally as they were written as allegories and metaphors, only by the power of intuition that awakens by the divine calmness obtained by deep meditation or prayer you can truly understand the infinite truths contained in their words.
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Old 04-29-2008, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,914 posts, read 31,810,788 times
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Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
More important than scriptures is the all knowing power of the soul, which allows you to understand God and religion, the truth is already contained within us, but we have to search in our inner self.

No sacred scripture was meant to be taken literally as they were written as allegories and metaphors, only by the power of intuition that awakens by the divine calmness obtained by deep meditation or prayer you can truly understand the infinite truths contained in their words.
Really? So what you are saying is that every individual interprets his "book" to suit his own "spiritual" agenda....Wait a minute...I thought that is what I said.
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Old 04-29-2008, 04:34 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,492,385 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Really? So what you are saying is that every individual interprets his "book" to suit his own "spiritual" agenda....Wait a minute...I thought that is what I said.
yup, but without the guiding all knowing intuition or the help from a guru you can make mistakes on the interpretation.

Intuition is not fully awake on the average man so with help of a guru, the spiritual aspirant can start awakening that quality of the soul, he (the guru) can be in this physical plane or not, if he is not here as is the case of Christ, Buddha, Muhammad and Krishna then you need to make contact with them by either deep meditation, intense prayer or both.

Guru comes from 2 sanskrit roots which are gu darkness and ru dispeller, so what Guru means is dispeller of darkness.

Good luck on your spiritual quest, see ya in heaven!

Last edited by Travelling fella; 04-29-2008 at 04:49 PM..
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Old 04-29-2008, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,914 posts, read 31,810,788 times
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Not on any spiritual quest....Just a waste of my time.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:41 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,335,749 times
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Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
I read the article but I found it biased and misleading it was written by a person whose guiding principle is ignorance, and it's intentions are to link islam with violence rather than offer an impartial analysis of the teachings,

it takes a calm mind and inner intuition to understand the hidden truths in every sacred scripture.

let's do the analysis

Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter ...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

What this verse tells me is that we should show no mercy against the inner tendencies, like bad habits, thoughts, feelings which threathen the kingdom of allah (the bodily kingdom) if you let those habits, thoughts and feelings uncontrolled, they will consume your health, peace, prosperity, and success and will create forgetfulness of Allah.

Sura (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."


This means that allah is ever aware of your spiritual efforts to purge vice and wickedness from your mind and soul


Sura (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."


We all dislike forsaking the things of the senses, but if we stopped smoking, abusing of sex, food, etc it would be good for us, but the egos of all of us love things that are bad for us.


Sura (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."


If you let your bodily kingdom to be overuled by the blind sense mind, ego and live just to purse material sense pleasures, you will attract disease, restlessness and premature aging as a result (terrible agony)


As you can see, like any other religion the goal of islam is self improvement, we all have to wage spiritual wars against our subconcious evil tendencies and strenghten and arouse those virtuous tendencies, warriors of the soul in order to win this metaphysical conflict between good and evil, once the war is won the ultimate paradise is obtained, which is unity with the creator.

You're analysis is opinion and without authority. The Quran quotes are direct and do not require fanciful translation. Islam is a peaceful religion if you are a believer. Whoa is the non-believer. He is one that will be persecuted, humiliated, and worse, killed. The proof is the North Africa and the Middle East. Once entirely Christian, now is almost completely and utterly Muslim. You can make the argument that the religion is just better and it won over the hearts and minds of the people. Or you can ask the many Christians who moved far away from there and you might get a different story. You can't even have a Bible or any Christian symbol like a crucifix in Saudi Arabia. The tolerance of other religions in that part of the world is almost non existent. Only in parts of Syria and Lebanon are there any substantial populations of Christians. The rest are dead or have fleed over the years.

I submit to you that the obedient Muslims are reading all the texts and are the ones perpetrating violence against the infidels and the peaceful Muslims ignore the incredibly numerous texts and passages that order a Muslim to be at best intolerant and at worst, a murderer.


Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:49 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,492,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
You're analysis is opinion and without authority. The Quran quotes are direct and do not require fanciful translation. Islam is a peaceful religion if you are a believer. Whoa is the non-believer. He is one that will be persecuted, humiliated, and worse, killed. The proof is the North Africa and the Middle East. Once entirely Christian, now is almost completely and utterly Muslim. You can make the argument that the religion is just better and it won over the hearts and minds of the people. Or you can ask the many Christians who moved far away from there and you might get a different story. You can't even have a Bible or any Christian symbol like a crucifix in Saudi Arabia. The tolerance of other religions in that part of the world is almost non existent. Only in parts of Syria and Lebanon are there any substantial populations of Christians. The rest are dead or have fleed over the years.

I submit to you that the obedient Muslims are reading all the texts and are the ones perpetrating violence and the peaceful Muslims ignore the incredibly numerous texts and passages that order a Muslim to be at best intolerant and at worst, a murderer.


Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
There is a fable of a frog who was born in a bucket, the only thing he knew for his entire life was that bucket until one good day another frog jumped in, so the first frog asked in surprise, heeey where did you come from?? -from the sea- the other frog replied, and is the sea big? the first frog asked, it is -huuuuuuuuuge my friend- the second one said, so the first frog jumped from one side of the bucket to the center of it and asked, is this big? and the second frog replied, -hell no, it's much much bigger than that- so the first frog jumped again this time from one side of the bucket to the other and then asked again, it is this big?? and the second frog replied, hell no, it's muuuuuuuuuch more bigger, the first frog refused to believe that there would be something bigger than his small bucket, where he had lived for his entire life.

We human beings live in our small buckets of religion and refuse to believe that there is an inmensity out there because we don't know it and never had contact with it before, so in the small bucket of our religions it is easy to accuse other religions of being violent or fake, but if you just jumped outside that small bucket and saw for yourself...

Peace to all mankind, Glory to the God of all religions, may the love for you be born in the hearts of all your children!
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:30 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,335,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
There is a fable of a frog who was born in a bucket, the only thing he knew for his entire life was that bucket until one good day another frog jumped in, so the first frog asked in surprise, heeey where did you come from?? -from the sea- the other frog replied, and is the sea big? the first frog asked, it is -huuuuuuuuuge my friend- the second one said, so the first frog jumped from one side of the bucket to the center of it and asked, is this big? and the second frog replied, -hell no, it's much much bigger than that- so the first frog jumped again this time from one side of the bucket to the other and then asked again, it is this big?? and the second frog replied, hell no, it's muuuuuuuuuch more bigger, the first frog refused to believe that there would be something bigger than his small bucket, where he had lived for his entire life.

We human beings live in our small buckets of religion and refuse to believe that there is an inmensity out there because we don't know it and never had contact with it before, so in the small bucket of our religions it is easy to accuse other religions of being violent or fake, but if you just jumped outside that small bucket and saw for yourself...

Peace to all mankind, Glory to the God of all religions, may the love for you be born in the hearts of all your children!
I am a Christian, and as such, am tolerant to all people. I love the diversity. I am from Europe originally and grew in New York City that contained within it's boundaries every culture known to man. I have befriended Christians, Jews, Hindus, Budhists and Muslims alike without any reservation. There are, without question, incredibly beautiful and caring people of all faiths. However, having said that, there are way two many violent and intolerant verses in the Quran. The proof of how it is applied lies in the demographics of the Middle East. My small bucket of a religion has over 1 Billion people in the world, the big bucket of Catholicism. We are taught to respect all religions and lead people to the faith by example. I do my best and I am not without sin, but when I read how peaceful the Islamic faith is, I just can't stay silent. There are some naive people who think that all religions are just the same anyway so who cares about the little differences. Viva la difference.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:25 PM
 
7 posts, read 17,036 times
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Default the Qur'an

it is the only word that is still written in it's original language because it is the youngest of the major religions and the original word it was written in, is still spoken today, whereas in Christianity, such is not the case. the Hebew Bible is translated but they have different words to mean different things and our language either does not have the word (so substituted or the author takes creative liscence in interpretation.) thus, many versions. Christians have to do their own research to ascertain the true meaning and unfortunatly, many do not. and btw, when Mohammad told Zyad what to write was it not being written by man? and there are inconsistiencies in the Qur'an, too. when the Qur'an is transcribed for people who don't speak or understand Arabic, is it not also being translated? you seem to be an intelligent person, thought i would give you this so you could think about these things and write me back.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:50 PM
 
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Really, You are Great P:E:A:C:E
Thank you, Thank you and Thank you..
Go on My Dear
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