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Old 05-07-2008, 10:22 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 4,010,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
so search about more witnesses , the internet is full with muslims forums and muslims sites , you can find more witnesses there , and they will greeting you if you wanna to ask whatever you want about islam .

by the way , 85% of muslims are sunni , iran is full with shiea (another sect )

peace
So, what are you saying that if I talk to different Muslims they will preach a different Allah or tell me different Shariah laws.

If at the first taste the water is bitter why drink any more? As far a meeting new people I am always open to it. But the Quaran is not going to change depending who I talk to.
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:35 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
So, what are you saying that if I talk to different Muslims they will preach a different Allah or tell me different Shariah laws.
i just tell you that majority of muslims are sunni , so take your witnesses from them , i didn't want to tell you take me as a witness although i'm sunni muslim but told you to go in the muslims forum , there you will find more muslims will respond to you , it was my advise if you seek truth informations


Quote:
If at the first taste the water is bitter why drink any more? As far a meeting new people I am always open to it. But the Quaran is not going to change depending who I talk to.
off course quran will not change , anyway you didn't mention any verse from quran when you talked about your witnesses
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:25 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,334,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
so , they fight palastenians because of jew's faith not muslims faith
thank you for your clarifying

but can you please mention to me when and how phalstenians invade jews and steal thier land ?
Did I miss something or does Hamas along with Iran not want Israel wiped off the face of the earth. Israel is defending their territories like any other country would. Again, nothing to do with religion. More than a third of the Israeli's are atheists or agnostic anyway so it's not because they are Jewish. They are nationalists.

Having said all that, I don't believe any country should have a state sponsored religion. The laws should reflect the peoples morality, but government should stay out the business of religion. That includes Israel, Saudi Arabia, or any other country like it. At best, the minorities in those countries are typically persecuted and at worst, killed.

Last edited by juj; 05-07-2008 at 11:35 AM..
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:02 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,489,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i just tell you that majority of muslims are sunni , so take your witnesses from them , i didn't want to tell you take me as a witness although i'm sunni muslim but told you to go in the muslims forum , there you will find more muslims will respond to you , it was my advise if you seek truth informations
Elwill I'm curious, where are you from? could you tell us more about sunni islam? what is the difference between sunni, and shia? what about sufi's are they considered muslims also?
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:27 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Elwill I'm curious, where are you from? could you tell us more about sunni islam? what is the difference between sunni, and shia? what about sufi's are they considered muslims also?
i'm from middle east

they are all muslims , they are all believe in mohammed (pbuh) as a prophet . they are all have the same quran
but the differs is about some thoughts which oppose the sunna and quran , and some practices with worship of God which prophet denyed
sunni are muslims who follow all sunna (teaches of mohammed (pbuh) and not have thoughts contradicts with quran or prophet teaching .
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Old 05-07-2008, 01:04 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,334,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i'm from middle east

they are all muslims , they are all believe in mohammed (pbuh) as a prophet . they are all have the same quran
but the differs is about some thoughts which oppose the sunna and quran , and some practices with worship of God which prophet denyed
sunni are muslims who follow all sunna (teaches of mohammed (pbuh) and not have thoughts contradicts with quran or prophet teaching .
Is it also true that most of the Shiites live in Iran? Is there also division amongst the Middle Eastern Sunni's and Shiites because the majority of Shiites are Persian while most of the Sunni's are Arabian? How does the two culture's play into their religious identities? Why do they dislike each other so much?

Last edited by juj; 05-07-2008 at 01:14 PM..
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Old 05-07-2008, 01:28 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
Is it also true that most of the Shiites live in Iran?
yes
Quote:
Is there also division amongst the Middle Eastern Sunni's and Shiites because the majority of Shiites are Persian while most of the Sunni's are Arabian?
it's the first time i hear that . surely not

Quote:
How does the two culture's play into their religious identities? Why do they dislike each other so much?
The basic difference in the two sects is that of the Shiite faith of the system of "Imamah". The Shiite faith of "Imamah" implies that after the Prophet (pbuh), there shall be no other prophet, but the only true leader of the Muslims, at any given time, is an "Imam" who, like the prophets of God, is directly appointed by God. The appointment of the first "Imam" was made by God through the last Prophet (pbuh), while every subsequent "Imam" is appointed through the "Imam", who precedes him. Another qualification of the "Imam", according to the Shiite belief is that he shall belong to the family of the last Prophet (pbuh). The Shiite belief holds that the "Imams", like the prophets of God, are "ma`soom" (sinless, innocent) and, therefore, should be obeyed in all matters and under all circumstances. The "Imams", according to the Shiite faith, are thus not just the political leaders of the Muslims but also their religious leaders and clergy. The Sunni school, on the other hand, does not ascribe to any such belief.


This may, at first sight, seem to be a trivial difference between the two schools. However, a close analysis reveals that it amounts to a difference in the basic sources of religion and religious knowledge information and directives for the two schools. The Sunni school, because of its lack of belief in the institution of "Imamah" holds the last Prophet of God and the book revealed on him as the two primary sources of Islam, while the Shiite school, because of the importance and position it gives to the "Imams" holds them to be an autonomous source of their religion. Anything that an "Imam" says, anything that he does and anything that he narrates is "religion" for the Shiite school. Differing with an "Imam" in any matter is of about the same consequence as differing with a prophet. Not submitting to the directions of an "Imam" is as grave a sin as refusing to submit to the directions of a prophet of God.
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:09 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,489,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
yes

it's the first time i hear that . surely not



The basic difference in the two sects is that of the Shiite faith of the system of "Imamah". The Shiite faith of "Imamah" implies that after the Prophet (pbuh), there shall be no other prophet, but the only true leader of the Muslims, at any given time, is an "Imam" who, like the prophets of God, is directly appointed by God. The appointment of the first "Imam" was made by God through the last Prophet (pbuh), while every subsequent "Imam" is appointed through the "Imam", who precedes him. Another qualification of the "Imam", according to the Shiite belief is that he shall belong to the family of the last Prophet (pbuh). The Shiite belief holds that the "Imams", like the prophets of God, are "ma`soom" (sinless, innocent) and, therefore, should be obeyed in all matters and under all circumstances. The "Imams", according to the Shiite faith, are thus not just the political leaders of the Muslims but also their religious leaders and clergy. The Sunni school, on the other hand, does not ascribe to any such belief.


This may, at first sight, seem to be a trivial difference between the two schools. However, a close analysis reveals that it amounts to a difference in the basic sources of religion and religious knowledge information and directives for the two schools. The Sunni school, because of its lack of belief in the institution of "Imamah" holds the last Prophet of God and the book revealed on him as the two primary sources of Islam, while the Shiite school, because of the importance and position it gives to the "Imams" holds them to be an autonomous source of their religion. Anything that an "Imam" says, anything that he does and anything that he narrates is "religion" for the Shiite school. Differing with an "Imam" in any matter is of about the same consequence as differing with a prophet. Not submitting to the directions of an "Imam" is as grave a sin as refusing to submit to the directions of a prophet of God.
Interesting so you could say that the Sunni school answers only to the last prophet of God, while the other considers the Imam a prophet and disobedience to them is a sin as grave as disobeying a prophet himself.

And what can you tell us about sufis?

I like the idea of islam of the prophets of God, that is very similar to what hindus believe, the word for prophet in sanskirt is Avatara which means descent of divinity into flesh. its roots are AVA, "down," and TRI, "to pass."

The UPANISHADS have minutely classified every stage of spiritual advancement. A SIDDHA ("perfected being") has progressed from the state of a JIVANMUKTA ("freed while living") to that of a PARAMUKTA ("supremely free"-full power over death); the latter has completely escaped from the mayic thralldom and its reincarnational round. The PARAMUKTA therefore seldom returns to a physical body; if he does, he is an avatar, a divinely appointed medium of supernal blessings on the world.

An avatar is unsubject to the universal economy; his pure body, visible as a light image, is free from any debt to nature. The casual gaze may see nothing extraordinary in an avatar's form but it casts no shadow nor makes any footprint on the ground. These are outward symbolic proofs of an inward lack of darkness and material bondage. Such a God-man alone knows the Truth behind the relativities of life and death. Omar Khayyam, so grossly misunderstood, sang of this liberated man in his immortal scripture, the RUBAIYAT:
"Ah, Moon of my Delight who know'st no wane,The Moon of Heaven is rising once again;How oft hereafter rising shall she look Through this same Garden after me-in vain!" The "Moon of Delight" is God, eternal Polaris, anachronous never. The "Moon of Heaven" is the outward cosmos, fettered to the law of periodic recurrence. Its chains had been dissolved forever by the Persian seer through his self-realization. "How oft hereafter rising shall she look . . . after me-in vain!" What frustration of search by a frantic universe for an absolute omission!

Christ expressed his freedom in another way: "And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Spacious with omnipresence, could Christ indeed be followed except in the overarching Spirit?

Krishna, Rama, Buddha, and Patanjali were among the ancient Indian avatars. A considerable poetic literature in Tamil has grown up around Agastya, a South Indian avatar. He worked many miracles during the centuries preceding and following the Christian era, and is credited with retaining his physical form even to this day.

Excerpt taken from Autobiography of a Yogi/Chapter 33 - Wikisource

Muhammad would be another example of an Avatar, and as such his teachings and legacy deserve the utmost respect

what does pbuh mean?

Peace!
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:44 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Interesting so you could say that the Sunni school answers only to the last prophet of God, while the other considers the Imam a prophet and disobedience to them is a sin as grave as disobeying a prophet himself.
this is one of the main defferences between sunni and shiits , but there are many other differences , for example

SHIAS denied the sincerity of the Ahlbayt (wives)and companion of the prophet(pbuh)and claimed that all the companion were hypocrate except the three.So they denied the guaidance of them did not benefit of their knowledge,so lost the main knowledge transfered through them ,thats why they didnt follow the main stream of muslims.And dont have authentic sources.
Even they deny the authenticity of Quran (main Source),bcoz it was compiled by the people who shia belief were not even muslims

So,obviously , shia couldn't trust on the work of people they consider dishonest,and rejected the main knowledge transferd through them.
Their religion based on their infellible Imams ,Who didnt get any power (and had to hide their knowledge)and atlast their twelvth Imam went under ground with their holy book.And will come out from the cave and then bring the real knowledge.So they r still waitting for the real knowledge!!!!

Quote:
And what can you tell us about sufis?
Sufis are another group of Muslims. Sufism is not a sect like Sunni or Shi'ite, but rather it's Islamic mysticism. So, a Sufi is also either a Sunni or a Shi'ite. There are many orders of Sufism, just like there are many monastic orders in Roman Catholicism.

Their "primary goal", is to rid the souls of self-love and replace it with God-love. The "ego" aspect of human nature must be eradicated if the path of salvation is to be achieved.
The "Sufi Way", has 7 stages: Repentance, abstinence from worldly pleasures, detachment or isolation from the world, solitude, poverty, patience, and self-surrender to God. The 7-path program is completed when "ego" leaves and "divine love" enters the human soul.

anaway suunis dosn't support suffis in some of thier practices because it differs from our prophet and his companions teachings

Quote:
Muhammad would be another example of an Avatar, and as such his teachings and legacy deserve the utmost respect

what does pbuh mean?

Peace!
i like to hear that , thank you

P.B.U.H -------------- Peace be upon him
muslims always give this blessing for every prophet and trustfull rightous slaves for God as mary (pbuh)

sometimes you may see this (SAW) or (AS) , its the same meaning but by arabic language
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:49 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,810,971 times
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Originally Posted by bigthirsty
Quote:
You honestly see no difference between American and Nazi Germany?

Really?

Yeah yes.. America has done horrible things in its past (and present). However, to equate what America has done.. ever in its history.. to Nazi Germany is not only unfair but shows complete ignorance of Nazi history.
Uhm, no it is not unfair, nor am I ignorant of Nazi history. It is not about what atrocities Americans have committed, but that they, like the Germans in WWII, believed that it was all for the best.
The danger does not lay in the acts committed by the Americans (or Nazis and the non-Nazi Germans during WWII or the Muslim terrorists), but in the fact that they obeyed without ever questioning if what they did was actually evil.
I mean, what is Bush’s approval rating nowadays?
I bet it is less than the majority of the Americans, yet Bush can do whatever he wants because he (like Hitler) is the decider, the man in charge.
Or that is what Bush believes he is anyway.

In short: I see no difference between Nazis and the German people who obeyed them, the Muslim terrorists and the Americans who (blindly) follow Bush.

Last edited by Tricky D; 05-07-2008 at 11:59 PM.. Reason: clarification
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