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Old 05-14-2008, 11:47 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,802,922 times
Reputation: 1573

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Originally Posted by HsvMike
Quote:
But when all you hear about is how bad we are, well we do a lot of good things as well. That's all I am saying.
You gotta admit that your president who calls himself the decider made a lot of bad calls.
He has a big mouth but doesn't show much result, nor does he admit making mistakes when he has made them.
I guess you could call it pride?

Quote:
I understand that, but the Dutch does not have the voice that the United States has. When something happens, nobody goes to the Dutch to see what their reaction or course of action will be. As I said, no offense but our two countries still are not comparable.
Ah, so it is ego?
There are many Dutch people on important places.

Quote:
I agree that leaders without followers become irrelevant, but there are some followers that will not be swayed no matter what. What do you do then?
Use 'silent' diplomacy.
You let the people themselves solve the problems instead of doing it yourself.
How else will nations learn if you do not give them the opportunity to figure things out themselves?

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I don't think anyone will know the absolute truth.
Oh come on, now you're entering denial.
The fact that your intelligence is a mess already is proof of incompetence.

Quote:
Yes this is a capitalist country. It seems like you are doing a complete 180 from the start of our conversation calling us a Christian country and saying we started this holy war.
Nope, in the middle ages the Christian colonists tried to excuse capitalism with Christianity; to treat others like they would like to be treated themselves, which I find nothing but manure.
I mean, then they tried to justify slavery with religion, which isn't any different with how things are done now; trying to justify starting wars for purely economical reasons.
I guess to capitalists capitalism is their religion, the problem is that they often have no morals, they are willing to make a buck by any means necessary.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,658,482 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by HsvMikeYou gotta admit that your president who calls himself the decider made a lot of bad calls.
He has a big mouth but doesn't show much result, nor does he admit making mistakes when he has made them.
I guess you could call it pride?
I have never heard President Bush call himself "the decider". Maybe he has but I have never heard that. Do you have any proof on that? I am sure he has realized that he has made mistakes, whether he admits to them or not is another story.

Quote:
Ah, so it is ego?
There are many Dutch people on important places.
Not ego, it's just the way it is. A smaller country that wants to run with the big boys.

Quote:
Use 'silent' diplomacy.
You let the people themselves solve the problems instead of doing it yourself.
How else will nations learn if you do not give them the opportunity to figure things out themselves?
I don't think silent diplomacy works too well with people actively trying to kill you. It sounds great in theory, but in this day and time it does not seem to be too logical, or I should say in this specific situation. People that have been under dictators for decades get used to it and see it as this is the way it is. Or they have someone rise up to over throw the dictator only to have that leader turn into one. Is this how people should live and be left to sort things out for themselves? Sometimes people do need help getting out of a bad situation.

Quote:
Oh come on, now you're entering denial.
The fact that your intelligence is a mess already is proof of incompetence.
It wasn't just us, but a lot of info gathered from major countries throughout the world. From what I heard, it was more of departments not cooperating with each other than anything else, as far as the United States.

Quote:
Nope, in the middle ages the Christian colonists tried to excuse capitalism with Christianity; to treat others like they would like to be treated themselves, which I find nothing but manure.
I mean, then they tried to justify slavery with religion, which isn't any different with how things are done now; trying to justify starting wars for purely economical reasons.
I guess to capitalists capitalism is their religion, the problem is that they often have no morals, they are willing to make a buck by any means necessary.
You just love throwing around the word "religion" when it does not even fit. You think anything can be equated to someones religion. Come on now. As I said we did not start this war, we are just going to end it. Our government just needs to let our troops do what they have to do to get it done quickly.
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:32 PM
 
62 posts, read 173,571 times
Reputation: 33
Killing and then claiming it's for a religious reason is just dumb! If the religion condones killing in anyway then it's a faulty religion. The crusades were started by MAN, not God. ONLY man can be responsible for such stupidity! Gitmo boys, hmmm Just sad! Whoever was involved with this most certainly was not of the christian faith, I say this because the Bible dictates otherwise. So to do this would mean they don't really believe what the Bilbe says and thus really don't know Christ! I really don't care if someone doesn't like this idea or not. Anyone not living by the "Fruit of the Spirit" Galtians 5:22 really doesn't understand what God expects of us.

Like it or Not!!!

Just My Thoughts!
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:52 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,858 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junos View Post
Killing and then claiming it's for a religious reason is just dumb! If the religion condones killing in anyway then it's a faulty religion. The crusades were started by MAN, not God. ONLY man can be responsible for such stupidity! Gitmo boys, hmmm Just sad! Whoever was involved with this most certainly was not of the christian faith, I say this because the Bible dictates otherwise. So to do this would mean they don't really believe what the Bilbe says and thus really don't know Christ! I really don't care if someone doesn't like this idea or not. Anyone not living by the "Fruit of the Spirit" Galtians 5:22 really doesn't understand what God expects of us.

Like it or Not!!!

Just My Thoughts!
for the bold statement , i can agree with that openion .
but the most important question i wanna to ask
are they will be punished by God for thier actions , are priests and churches warned them from punishment of God if they didn't obey jesus

if the christians have a beliefs that thier deeds are allready forgiven whether they act as evil or rightous , so the bible or commandments of jesus not so important for christianity relegion
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:12 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,530 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
if the christians have a beliefs that thier deeds are allready forgiven whether they act as evil or rightous , so the bible or commandments of jesus not so important for christianity relegion
elwill, that only works for the "Once saved, always saved" folks. For Catholics like myself, that is definitely not the case. For us, a fall from grace is just a bad decision away.
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:45 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,802,922 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by HsvMike
Quote:
I am sure he has realized that he has made mistakes, whether he admits to them or not is another story.
The ability to humble yourself by admitting that you are capable of making mistakes separates great leaders from the wannabe's.
Great leaders are able to learn from their past experiences while wannabe's simply deny their mistakes.

Quote:
I don't think silent diplomacy works too well with people actively trying to kill you.
The thing with violence is that it NEVER works. You can kill terrorists but that will have no impact whatsoever on the motivation of other terrorists and would-be terrorists.
It only feeds the violence and justifies the idea of genocide.
The thing is that once you believe that Jesus is a pacifist, which I believe is the case, you cannot combine Jesusí philosophy with violence. You are either a pacifist or you are not, there is no middle ground.
I even believe that Jesus would not want his followers to be soldiers.
Or even be politically active.

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It wasn't just us, but a lot of info gathered from major countries throughout the world.
Be that as it may, but it was only the Americans who were prepared to act solo (without the approval of the UN).

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You just love throwing around the word "religion" when it does not even fit. You think anything can be equated to someones religion. Come on now.
Wasn't Jesus not a pacifist, or at least did not resort to physical violence?
If he was than true Christians have to be pacifists too.
Anywayz, the fact that Jesus said that you should love others the way you want to be loved should prevent Christians from dealing in slavery or owning any slaves.
And I think we already established that you canít be a 9 to 5 Christian.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:27 AM
 
Location: San Josť, CA
3,264 posts, read 5,783,614 times
Reputation: 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake.Lady View Post
GCSTroop, You are absolutely correct.....most of us (me) have not been to the middle east. I can, however, say I was one of those naive peeps that gave muslims the benefit of the doubt..........and I still do......to a point.

After 9/11 I was one of those 'enlightened' people that still preached the same ol' religion of peace'. All good until I bought the Koran. And then I actually read that horrible book! Women are only half as good as a man when it comes to testimony? Don't believe me? Tabari IX:113"Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

Yea............aint it grand? Keep telling me how wonderful life is for a woman! Damn, I'm sooo sorry I don't get to live in a 'hefty bag'

In reading the Koran, you must have forgotten to read your equally disgusting Bible. Or, maybe you're right. Afterall, women are given equal rights in the Bible. <gag> - There isn't random murder of non-Christians <gag>.... get real.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,658,482 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
The ability to humble yourself by admitting that you are capable of making mistakes separates great leaders from the wannabe's.
Great leaders are able to learn from their past experiences while wannabe's simply deny their mistakes.
I hear ya. I don't think many military leaders are very good at admitting when they are wrong.

Quote:
The thing with violence is that it NEVER works. You can kill terrorists but that will have no impact whatsoever on the motivation of other terrorists and would-be terrorists.
It only feeds the violence and justifies the idea of genocide.
The thing is that once you believe that Jesus is a pacifist, which I believe is the case, you cannot combine Jesusí philosophy with violence. You are either a pacifist or you are not, there is no middle ground.
I even believe that Jesus would not want his followers to be soldiers.
Or even be politically active.
I agree that in the grand scheme of things, violence does not work. But if it is me or someone else, it is going to be someone else. Being a pacifist is good in theory, as long as everyone else is. If everyone is a pacifist except for one group, well that one group would end up taking over everything.

Quote:
Be that as it may, but it was only the Americans who were prepared to act solo (without the approval of the UN).
See most of the other countries have to have the support of the UN for backup, we don't. We just do it to be nice, as a courtesy.

Quote:
Wasn't Jesus not a pacifist, or at least did not resort to physical violence?
If he was than true Christians have to be pacifists too.
Anywayz, the fact that Jesus said that you should love others the way you want to be loved should prevent Christians from dealing in slavery or owning any slaves.
And I think we already established that you canít be a 9 to 5 Christian.
Hey I never dealed slaves or owned slaves, so that is a mute point with me. The problem is not everyone in this world believes in Jesus and who he is, so it's a ton of different people playing by totally different rules. Hey I will be the first person "to do unto others.....", but as I said, if it is him or me, it's going to be him.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:29 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,802,922 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by HsvMike
Quote:
I agree that in the grand scheme of things, violence does not work. But if it is me or someone else, it is going to be someone else. Being a pacifist is good in theory, as long as everyone else is. If everyone is a pacifist except for one group, well that one group would end up taking over everything.
In that case is being religious then only a thing of convenience?
I mean, you are either a Christian or not.
Jesus, Ghandi, Martin Luther King JR and the Dalai Lama could easily resort to using violence, heck it would even be justified, but they did not. They chose to adhere to resisting without the use of violence, no matter what their adversary did.

Quote:
See most of the other countries have to have the support of the UN for backup, we don't. We just do it to be nice, as a courtesy.
Ah, so might makes right?
Does this mean that if other countries don't fall in line with the US, there will be dire consequences?

Quote:
Hey I never dealed slaves or owned slaves, so that is a mute point with me.
The thing is that slavery is not a thing of the past. In a capitalist society minimum wage is a form of slavery.
And as a company you would be stealing money from your own wallet if you did not outsource to 3rd world countries in order to get more cheap labour forces to increase your profit.
There virtually is no difference between slavery and minimum wage 'slaves', because in both cases they do not have the (economical) power to change their circumstances.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,658,482 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
In that case is being religious then only a thing of convenience?
I mean, you are either a Christian or not.
Jesus, Ghandi, Martin Luther King JR and the Dalai Lama could easily resort to using violence, heck it would even be justified, but they did not. They chose to adhere to resisting without the use of violence, no matter what their adversary did.
No one is perfect, including ( or some would say especially ) Christians. We strive to do the right thing, doesn't mean we always do. Jesus was a pacifist and he was killed, even though he chose to be for all of us. And Dr. King did use non-violent protest but he was protected at the same time.

Quote:
Ah, so might makes right?
Does this mean that if other countries don't fall in line with the US, there will be dire consequences?
No might does not make anything right. But I see the UN as just another bureaucracy. Just don't attack us and everything will be fine. We will go back to the country that helps and bails out everyone else.

Quote:
The thing is that slavery is not a thing of the past. In a capitalist society minimum wage is a form of slavery.
And as a company you would be stealing money from your own wallet if you did not outsource to 3rd world countries in order to get more cheap labour forces to increase your profit.
There virtually is no difference between slavery and minimum wage 'slaves', because in both cases they do not have the (economical) power to change their circumstances.
This is an insult to any person in any generation that was ever a slave. Low wages does not equate to being someones property, literally. If you are a minimum wage worker, you have a choice not to work, you won't make any money but you do have a choice. A slave has no choice, they have no freedoms at all.
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