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Old 05-09-2008, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Hendersonville, Tn
131 posts, read 528,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
well , are you wanna to say that , if muslims kill innocents without quoting quran , it will be more fair , and they will be the same as soldiers in Gitmo ?
TrickyD was the one equating soldiers in Gitmo with Islam. I merely pointed out that the soldiers don't quote the Bible when doing what ever they are doing. Jihadist do quote the koran. U.S. soldiers come from very diversified relgious back grounds. Jihadists are muslims.
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:05 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,991 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by camping!Wait are you truly saying that those American soldiers who work in the Guantanamo bay detention camp are not Christian?
Or are you trying to explain that torture (like waterboarding) is not an act of violence?
Or that waterboarding ain't backwards?
It is very likely that the soldiers are a mix of religions, Christianity,Judaism, Paganims, Atheism etc..... In other words, what they do at Gitmo or anywhere else for that matter is not motivated by God or religion.
Frankly given the choice of being waterboarded or having my head hacked off and then shown on Youtube....well, I'd rather get a bit wet, but thats just me
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:10 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,991 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren View Post
The good christians in Ireland have done alot of killing in the name of their religion in the not so distant past. Thats this century, not the dark ages.
The pope wasn't telling them and encouraging them to throw their molotov cocktails, now was he? The Pope (and whatever the Protestant version of the Pope is) didnot funnel money, bombs and guns to the terrorists. And no religious figure ever promised an afterlife of sexy virgins for those who killed themselves for the cause.
The 'Troubles' were a political situation that happened to be split down religous lines, much like the Sunni vs Shiite problems in Iraq (which has been going on long before the US showed up).
The closest comparision of Jihadism that Chrisitianity has would be the Crusades ---- which happened in the Dark Ages.
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:09 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by camping!
Quote:
It is very likely that the soldiers are a mix of religions, Christianity,Judaism, Paganims, Atheism etc.....
A typical 'Christian' answer; they do it too, so why shouldn't I?
Or is it just a typical American answer?
Then again, the majority of Americans are Christian so it could be both.
But it sure ain't the answer of an individualist.

Quote:
Frankly given the choice of being waterboarded or having my head hacked off and then shown on Youtube....well, I'd rather get a bit wet, but thats just me
Sure being tortured is just a bit inconvenient, right?
Especially when you are innocent.
But I guess some people just can't wait to get into heaven.
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:48 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,175 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by camping!A typical 'Christian' answer; they do it too, so why shouldn't I?
Or is it just a typical American answer?
Then again, the majority of Americans are Christian so it could be both.
But it sure ain't the answer of an individualist.

Sure being tortured is just a bit inconvenient, right?
Especially when you are innocent.
But I guess some people just can't wait to get into heaven.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:46 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,991 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by camping!A typical 'Christian' answer; they do it too, so why shouldn't I?
Or is it just a typical American answer?
Then again, the majority of Americans are Christian so it could be both.
But it sure ain't the answer of an individualist.

Sure being tortured is just a bit inconvenient, right?
Especially when you are innocent.
But I guess some people just can't wait to get into heaven.
Ah Tricky, once again you don't address the substance of what I said.
You were the one who wanted to draw a paralel between Jihadist and Gitmo....not I. And I don't understand why you think that my anwer that soldiers are of many creeds makes them any less individualistic.
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:30 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,175 times
Reputation: 330
Default American Christians Feeding the World's Starving

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by camping!A typical 'Christian' answer; they do it too, so why shouldn't I?
Or is it just a typical American answer?
Then again, the majority of Americans are Christian so it could be both.
But it sure ain't the answer of an individualist.

Sure being tortured is just a bit inconvenient, right?
Especially when you are innocent.
But I guess some people just can't wait to get into heaven.
Here's what American Christians do:

FoxNews:
The overwhelming bulk of the burden in feeding the world’s starving poor remains with the United States and a small group of other predominately Western nations, a situation that the WFP has done little so far to change, even as it has asked for another $775 million in donations to ease the crisis.

Here's the whole article:
FOXNews.com - A Gulf in Giving: Oil-Rich States Starve the World Food Program - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

And God Bless the african republic of Burkina Faso and the country of Bangladesh!

Last edited by juj; 05-09-2008 at 01:48 PM..
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:09 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by juj
Quote:
Here's what American Christians do:

FoxNews:
The overwhelming bulk of the burden in feeding the world’s starving poor remains with the United States and a small group of other predominately Western nations, a situation that the WFP has done little so far to change, even as it has asked for another $775 million in donations to ease the crisis.
Have you ever heard of the story about the poor beggar who donated a copper piece and a rich man who donated gold?
For all the gold the rich man had donated he still did not gave more than the beggar who only gave a copper piece.
But I guess you need to be a blasphemer to understand this story.

Originally Posted by camping!
Quote:
You were the one who wanted to draw a paralel between Jihadist and Gitmo....not I.
That is because you keep reducing people to their religion and / or nationality.
There are people imprisoned in Gitmo who are only suspected of being a terrorist.
Yet they still were being tortured.

Quote:
And I don't understand why you think that my anwer that soldiers are of many creeds makes them any less individualistic.
All soldiers are trained to be followers, thus not true individuals.
If American soldiers were true individuals they would either have been accused of not being a team player or of not being a true patriot.

You also completely ignore the fact that the end never justifies the means, in this case torture and locking up people without being proven guilty of a crime.
But history shows that Americans have done this before, so I find this behaviour typically American.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:28 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,991 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by juj Have you ever heard of the story about the poor beggar who donated a copper piece and a rich man who donated gold?
For all the gold the rich man had donated he still did not gave more than the beggar who only gave a copper piece.
But I guess you need to be a blasphemer to understand this story.

Originally Posted by camping! That is because you keep reducing people to their religion and / or nationality.
In the context of this thread, yes seeing as how this thread is saying that Muslims are not violent. I happen to say, well some are. Where do I get that? From the terrorists themselves, who claim their suicides are actually martyrdom, and whose religious leaders -Imams- fan the flames of these murderous behaviors from the Mosque.
There are people imprisoned in Gitmo who are only suspected of being a terrorist.
Yet they still were being tortured.
Horrible, I do not agree with Gitmo.....but I do not agree with your original assertation that Gitmo soldiers were the same as Jihadists.

All soldiers are trained to be followers, thus not true individuals.
If American soldiers were true individuals they would either have been accused of not being a team player or of not being a true patriot.
Of Course, even soldiers in the peace loving Netherlands.
You also completely ignore the fact that the end never justifies the means, in this case torture and locking up people without being proven guilty of a crime.
I wasn't talking about the morality of Gitmo, I was explaining that your example wasn't accurate. US soldiers are no jihadists, US soldiers are not under allegiance to any religous affiliation.
But history shows that Americans have done this before, so I find this behaviour typically American.
Typical American behaviour? How typically European of you to be so arrogant and smug
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:50 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by camping!
Quote:
Horrible, I do not agree with Gitmo.....but I do not agree with your original assertation that Gitmo soldiers were the same as Jihadists.
They are the same because both follow orders without questioning them and both believe that they are doing the right thing for their country and / or their cause.

Quote:
Of Course, even soldiers in the peace loving Netherlands.
When I say every soldier I do mean EVERY soldier.

Quote:
Typical American behaviour? How typically European of you to be so arrogant and smug
What you Americans seem to forget is that American culture originated from Europe.
Without Europe America would not be what it is today.
Calling Europeans smug and arrogant is like calling your reflection in the mirror smug and arrogant.
America and Europe are the same as communism and capitalism. Communism is a reaction to capitalism, without capitalism there would have been no need for communism.
And America is a reaction to Europe, without Europe there would never have been an America.
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