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Old 05-13-2008, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,658,118 times
Reputation: 482

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
And this might become a problem, because Americans only care about what other Americans think of them. Whenever a nation behaves like this they might end up practicing isolationist politics.
No the problem is, no matter what America does, we are criticized for it. Too much help, not enough, not quick enough etc.

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You may find it hard to believe but Holland at 1 point in time has been a super power too.
The thing is that America doesn't know what to do nowadays because since the end of the cold war (the end of the Soviet Power) the balance of power is shifting in the world. America already is not the only centre of economic power anymore and soon the military power will shift too, because nowadays everyone can produce a WMD because the knowledge how to build 1 has become public knowledge. Only acquiring the materials still might pose a problem, but not 1 that is unsolvable.
Ok, so Holland was a super power, but not anymore. No one is afraid of the power and might of "Holland". So as I said, you can't compare them.

We only have ourselves to blame for our economic problems. Outsourcing jobs and relying on other countries to sell us goods have all contributed to it. Regardless of how many countries get WMDs, I don't think there is a military that could come close to defeating us when push comes to shove.

Quote:
Because of the economical situation in your country enlisting is not as much a 'free choice’ as it used to be.
Joining the military is a better choice than living the life of a homeless because you couldn't find a job.
There also is no difference between being killed in the ghetto for wearing the wrong colours, or being killed in a foreign country because you were send there by the government.
Have you ever been to the United States or spent a decent amount of time here? The statements made in this comment sounds like someone that has never been here before.

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The WTC is more an economical target than a political or religious target.
It is called the World Trade Centre is it not?
And not because it is the centre of sports.
Did hitting the WTC take down our economy? No. They did it for the purpose of shock value, that is all. And there were a lot more people there than just Americans, notice the "World" in World Trade Center. So it wasn't just about Americans. Terrorists are against any way of life not their own, not just against us.

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I guess you don't get the point that Saddam had no nuke. It would be like sentencing a person to death for a crime he did not commit.
Whenever this is the case, it is proof that justice has failed.
The end should never justify the means.
I know very well that he did not have a nuke. "The end should never justify the means", while I do agree with you, all the people that were tortured, beaten, and the families of the people he and his regime killed might disagree.

Quote:
If this is the case, what would then be the difference between a religious soldier and a patriotic soldier?
Are they not both willing to sacrifice their lives for their beliefs (which btw are much bigger than themselves)?
Not all of the soldiers out there are fighting because they believe in the cause. Some are just fighting because it is their job and when their tour and time is up, they are out of the military.

A religious soldier believes in the cause to the very end, whether it being a victory or death.

That is how I see the difference.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:26 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by HsvMike
Quote:
No the problem is, no matter what America does, we are criticized for it. Too much help, not enough, not quick enough etc.
So?
Only dictators demand to be loved.

Quote:
Ok, so Holland was a super power, but not anymore. No one is afraid of the power and might of "Holland". So as I said, you can't compare them.
Holland has been a parent to former colonies while the US still has to produce off-spring.
Quote:
Regardless of how many countries get WMDs, I don't think there is a military that could come close to defeating us when push comes to shove.
I guess America still has to learn that you cannot acquire peace through superior firepower?

Quote:
"The end should never justify the means", while I do agree with you, all the people that were tortured, beaten, and the families of the people he and his regime killed might disagree.
In that case torture always becomes a legitimate excuse.
Luckily the majority of the western world does not agree with your statement.

Quote:
Some are just fighting because it is their job and when their tour and time is up, they are out of the military.
A true patriot only stops being a patriot once he starts to lose his ideals. It has nothing to do with being in or out of the military.
You cannot be a 9 to 5 patriot, just like you cannot be a 9 to 5 believer; you either believe or you don't.
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Old 05-13-2008, 06:09 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,175 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by HsvMikeSo?
Only dictators demand to be loved.
Half-Emp-D, your gift has no limits.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,193 posts, read 22,320,954 times
Reputation: 6158
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
The muslims do not help their cause by celebrating the deaths of hundreds after a suicide bombing. They also do not help the image of Islam when coercing two down syndromed women into becoming suicide bombers.
Luckily, Christianity left its violent backward ways in the dark ages.....when will Islam do the same?
The suicide bombers represent a very small, but extreme element of the Muslim religion. It is like saying that the few Evangelical Christians who literally want to wipe out all non-believers (of their brand of Christianity) off the face of the Earth are representative of the entire Christian Faith.

Keep in mind that headlines sell newspaper/television ads. Fox News would go out of business.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:25 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,991 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
The suicide bombers represent a very small, but extreme element of the Muslim religion. It is like saying that the few Evangelical Christians who literally want to wipe out all non-believers (of their brand of Christianity) off the face of the Earth are representative of the entire Christian Faith.

Keep in mind that headlines sell newspaper/television ads. Fox News would go out of business.
I had no idea that Al Jezeera was an affiliate of Fox News
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,658,118 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
So?
Only dictators demand to be loved.
No demanding over here, a little appreciation would be nice.

Quote:
Holland has been a parent to former colonies while the US still has to produce off-spring.
Holland was a parent at a time when there was still land to be acquired. I don't think there is much unclaimed land left anywhere.


Quote:
I guess America still has to learn that you cannot acquire peace through superior firepower?
Unfortunately, there are groups in the world that only respect firepower. With those groups diplomacy can only go so far. It is hard to neogotiate a cease fire when their strong, powerful, and brave leaders are hiding in caves and leaving the rest of their people to kill themselves.

Quote:
In that case torture always becomes a legitimate excuse.
Luckily the majority of the western world does not agree with your statement.
I can only speak for myself.

Quote:
A true patriot only stops being a patriot once he starts to lose his ideals. It has nothing to do with being in or out of the military.
You cannot be a 9 to 5 patriot, just like you cannot be a 9 to 5 believer; you either believe or you don't.
Exactly, that is why it is not a religious war on our side. We do have soldiers that do not agree with what we are doing. So you just proved my point for me. Thank you.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:50 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by HsvMike
Quote:
No demanding over here, a little appreciation would be nice.
Why do you people need conformation?
I just do things because I believe they need to be done and not because people will like me.

Quote:
Holland was a parent at a time when there was still land to be acquired. I don't think there is much unclaimed land left anywhere.
True, but the Dutch have lotsa experience in dealing with different cultures.
It still comes in handy, even when we don't have colonies anymore.

Quote:
With those groups diplomacy can only go so far. It is hard to neogotiate a cease fire when their strong, powerful, and brave leaders are hiding in caves and leaving the rest of their people to kill themselves.
This is why the Dutch try to sway the people.
Leaders without followers become irrelevant.

Quote:
Exactly, that is why it is not a religious war on our side.
But you have turned it into 1 by invading Iraq on false claims.
Then you make it even worse; instead of pulling out once you have realised that there were no WMD America decided to stay, supposedly for the good of the Iraqis and not for the oil or the big fat contracts in rebuilding Iraq.
The thing is that America profits too much from waging war.
It is as if you have chosen to create jobs for Americans in Iraq instead of outsourcing cheap labour to Africa or China or some other 3rd world nation.
So my point is that Americans are 1st and foremost Capitalists instead of Christian or patriots, just like the Europeans were when they were a colonial empire.

Last edited by Tricky D; 05-13-2008 at 11:02 PM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:05 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,175 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by HsvMike Why do you people need conformation?
I just do things because I believe they need to be done and not because people will like me.

True, but the Dutch have lotsa experience in dealing with different cultures.
It still comes in handy, even when we don't have colonies anymore.

This is why the Dutch try to sway the people.
Leaders without followers become irrelevant.

But you have turned it into 1 by invading Iraq on false claims.
Then you make it even worse; instead of pulling out once you have realised that there were no WMD America decided to stay, supposedly for the good of the Iraqis and not for the oil or the big fat contracts in rebuilding Iraq.
The thing is that America profits too much from waging war.
It is as if you have chosen to create jobs for Americans in Iraq instead of outsourcing cheap labour to Africa or China or some other 3rd world nation.
So my point is that Americans are 1st and foremost Capitalists instead of Christian or patriots, just like the Europeans were when they were a colonial empire.
If you are making mistakes, you aren't doing anything.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:16 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by juj
Quote:
If you are making mistakes, you aren't doing anything.
At least I learn from my mistakes.
So I don't view making mistakes as doing nothing.
The thing is that I only see the American government repeating the same mistakes the European colonials made, over and over again.
As if Americans refuse to learn.
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,658,118 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Why do you people need conformation?
I just do things because I believe they need to be done and not because people will like me.
I personally do not need any conformation. But when all you hear about is how bad we are, well we do a lot of good things as well. That's all I am saying.

Quote:
True, but the Dutch have lotsa experience in dealing with different cultures.
It still comes in handy, even when we don't have colonies anymore.
I understand that, but the Dutch does not have the voice that the United States has. When something happens, nobody goes to the Dutch to see what their reaction or course of action will be. As I said, no offense but our two countries still are not comparable.

Quote:
This is why the Dutch try to sway the people.
Leaders without followers become irrelevant.
I agree that leaders without followers become irrelevant, but there are some followers that will not be swayed no matter what. What do you do then?

Quote:
But you have turned it into 1 by invading Iraq on false claims.
Then you make it even worse; instead of pulling out once you have realised that there were no WMD America decided to stay, supposedly for the good of the Iraqis and not for the oil or the big fat contracts in rebuilding Iraq.
The thing is that America profits too much from waging war.
It is as if you have chosen to create jobs for Americans in Iraq instead of outsourcing cheap labour to Africa or China or some other 3rd world nation.
So my point is that Americans are 1st and foremost Capitalists instead of Christian or patriots, just like the Europeans were when they were a colonial empire.
I still don't know if it was mis-information presented to the government from lack of communication from world wide intelligence agencies or being falsely led into this war. I don't think anyone will know the absolute truth.

We can't just pull out of the war now, Iraq would be in worse shape than it was when Saddam is still in power. Then all we will hear is how could you have left this country like this. You should have atleast cleaned up after you pummeled them. And that is what we are doing. About going in there for gas, of course this is coming from someone that does not live in this country. We have never payed more for gas ever. So there is no way we invaded Iraq for the oil, or cheaper gas.

We did not start this war, they did. We are just going to end it.

Yes this is a capitalist country. It seems like you are doing a complete 180 from the start of our conversation calling us a Christian country and saying we started this holy war. It's good to know maybe our conversation is having you see the light a little.
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