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Old 05-15-2008, 09:56 AM
 
148 posts, read 263,645 times
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I find in 1 of the forums, that they do not accept any post, unless it will be as they wants, and if you have true in4mation, but they don't like it, then you have to bend the truth so that they will keep you in the forum, but if you say the truth directly as it is, then you will banned, since they want only discussion and appropriate Language!!!!!!!!???

The True History Of Jesus PBUH.

God The Most High said:

16. And mention in the Book (the Qur'ān, O Muhammad SAW , the story of) Maryam (Mary), when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place facing east.

17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects.

18. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allāh) from you, if you do fear Allāh."

19. (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son."

20. She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?"

21. He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allāh): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allāh), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allāh).' "

22. So she conceived him[], and she withdrew with him to a far place (i.e. Bethlehem valley about 4-6 miles from Jerusalem).

23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said: "Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!"

24. Then [the babe 'Iesa (Jesus) or Jibrael (Gabriel)] cried unto her from below her, saying: "Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you;

25. "And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe-dates upon you."

26. "So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say: 'Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent (Allāh) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.'"

27. Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: "O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariya (an unheard mighty thing).

28. "O sister (i.e. the like) of Hārūn (Aaron) [not the brother of Mūsa (Moses), but he was another pious man at the time of Maryam (Mary)]! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman."

29. Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?[]"

30. "He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allāh, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;[]"

31. "And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salāt (prayer), and Zakāt, as long as I live."

32. "And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest.

33. "And Salām (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"

34. Such is 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). (it is) a statement of truth, about which they doubt (or dispute).

35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allāh that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allāh, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allāh]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is[].

36. ['Iesa (Jesus) said]: "And verily Allāh is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allāh's Religion of Islāmic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His Prophets)." [Tafsir At-Tabarī]

37. Then the sects differed [i.e. the Christians about 'Iesa (Jesus) <><>], so woe unto the disbelievers [those who gave false witness by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allāh] from the meeting of a great Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire)[].

38. How clearly will they (polytheists and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allāh) see and hear, the Day when they will appear before Us! But the Zalimūn (polytheists and wrong-doers) today are in plain error.

39. And warn them (O Muhammad SAW) of the Day of grief and regrets, when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness, and they believe not[].

40. Verily! We will inherit the earth and whatsoever is thereon. And to Us they all shall be returned.


Allah The Most Merciful said:

83. And when they (who call themselves Christians) listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of the truth they have recognised. They say: "Our Lord! We believe; so write us down among the witnesses.

84. "And why should we not believe in Allāh and in that which has come to us of the truth (Islāmic Monotheism)? And we wish that our Lord will admit us (in Paradise on the Day of Resurrection) along with the righteous people (Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Companions radhiallahu'anhuć)."

85. So because of what they said, Allāh rewarded them Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), they will abide therein forever. Such is the reward of good*doers.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:01 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,757,067 times
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Well, who said it was truth? Just because you think the Koran is the 100% utterance of God does not make it so. Quite frankly, having read it, I think it is not.

Mohammed probably was making up the entire thing whole cloth.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:33 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, who said it was truth? Just because you think the Koran is the 100% utterance of God does not make it so. Quite frankly, having read it, I think it is not.

Mohammed probably was making up the entire thing whole cloth.
may be we believe that it's the truth because you can't proof its false .

whatever we didn't mean to impose our beliefs , we just exchange our views .
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:51 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,016,120 times
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The purpose of this forum is for all to be able to express what they believe. Actually, this is the first time I've seen a Muslim start a thread and I have seen posters question why more Muslims aren't on the board. You have to understand that America is predominantly Christian, built and based on Christianity. We're not going to agree with you. But you can find people who will question why you believe like you do.

As a matter of fact, I have questions. Although the story is completely different than the Bible, what you just quoted seems to imply that the Koran suggests that Jesus is in fact the Savior? Is that true? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and is the Son of God? That He died on the cross for our sins, was raised from the dead, and will be coming again? Where did Mohammed get his information? Is Mohammed the only one who wrote the Koran? I guess I have more questions that I thought.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:33 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
As a matter of fact, I have questions. Although the story is completely different than the Bible, what you just quoted seems to imply that the Koran suggests that Jesus is in fact the Savior? Is that true? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and is the Son of God? That He died on the cross for our sins, was raised from the dead, and will be coming again? Where did Mohammed get his information? Is Mohammed the only one who wrote the Koran? I guess I have more questions that I thought.
what is the differences you observed between quran and bible ?

jesus is in fact the savior ? may be it's true but not with your understanding .
we as a muslims to be right muslims must believe in jesus (pbuh) and all of the prophets .
and he also a savior for whom believed in him as a prophet and obeyed him from his people in his time.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and is the Son of God?

we believe that jesus (pbuh) born of a vigin as a miracle to be witness about his prophethood
we didn't believe that he died and we didn't believe that he raised from the dead , and we believed that he will be coming again and he will kill elmassekh eldagal (antichrist)

Where did Mohammed get his information?
he get this information from God by the massenger Jebril (the angel)

Is Mohammed the only one who wrote the Koran?
mohammed (pbuh) was illiterate , we believe that quran is from God , jebril recited it to mohammed (pbuh)
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:06 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,016,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
what is the differences you observed between quran and bible ?

jesus is in fact the savior ? may be it's true but not with your understanding .
we as a muslims to be right muslims must believe in jesus (pbuh) and all of the prophets .
and he also a savior for whom believed in him as a prophet and obeyed him from his people in his time.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and is the Son of God?

we believe that jesus (pbuh) born of a vigin as a miracle to be witness about his prophethood
we didn't believe that he died and we didn't believe that he raised from the dead , and we believed that he will be coming again and he will kill elmassekh eldagal (antichrist)

Where did Mohammed get his information?
he get this information from God by the massenger Jebril (the angel)

Is Mohammed the only one who wrote the Koran?
mohammed (pbuh) was illiterate , we believe that quran is from God , jebril recited it to mohammed (pbuh)
Ok, what I understand is that Muslims believe that Jesus is just a prophet, nothing else, right? And that Jesus will be the one to destroy the AntiChrist? You do not believe that Jesus is the one and only Savior, Son of God, sent by God to die on the cross for our sins and then raised from the dead, and will return.

It's interesting to me that only one illiterate man could influence so many. I know you don't believe the Bible any more than I believe the Koran, but it's my duty as a Christian to say this.

John 3:16...."For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Revelation 22:18-21....." I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen."

The Bible is the truth. It's our duties as Christians to share that truth, and to rebuke those who teach false doctrines. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit is the Holy Trinity, the GodHead. God is love, peace, gentleness, kindness, patience and understanding....all the things that the world does not see from Muslim beliefs. We see evil, hatred, murder of innocent people....atrocities against humanity performed behind a cloak of religion to justify such acts.

We will never be in agreement, and I pray that you will come to see that what I am telling you is the truth. I see no reason for me to continue in conversation with you because you answered my questions and I don't want to argue. If you would like more information about Christianity and want prayer, there are many people here that would be happy to provide you both.
God bless you.
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
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I find this interesting, it would seem that there is more than one truth and yet they are basically both the same, just different interpretations.
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:41 PM
 
148 posts, read 263,645 times
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29. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Whether you hide what is in your breasts or reveal it, Allāh knows it, and He knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth. And Allāh is Able to do all things."

30.
On the Day when every person will be confronted with all the good he has done, and all the evil he has done, he will wish that there were a great distance between him and his evil. And Allāh warns you against Himself (His Punishment) and Allāh is full of Kindness to the (His) slaves.

31. Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): "If you (really) love Allāh then follow me (i.e. accept Islāmic Monotheism, follow the Qur'ān and the Sunnah), Allāh will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allāh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

32. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Obey Allāh and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)." But if they turn away, then Allāh does not like the disbelievers[5].

33. Allāh chose Adam, Nūh (Noah), the family of Ibrāhim (Abraham) and the family of 'Imrān above the 'Alamīn (mankind and jinns) (of their times).

34. Offspring, one of the other, and Allāh is the All-Hearer, All-Knower.

35. (Remember) when the wife of 'Imrān said: "O my Lord! I have vowed to You what (the child that) is in my womb to be dedicated for Your services (free from all worldly work; to serve Your Place of worship), so accept this, from me. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knowing."

36. Then when she delivered her [child Maryam (Mary)], she said: "O my Lord! I have delivered a female child," - and Allāh knew better what she delivered, - "And the male is not like the female, and I have named her Maryam[6] (Mary), and I seek refuge with You (Allāh) for her and for her offspring from Shaitan (Satan), the outcast."


37. So her Lord (Allāh) accepted her with goodly acceptance. He made her grow in a good manner and put her under the care of Zakariyā (Zachariya). Every time he entered Al-Mihrāb[7]to (visit) her , he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Maryam (Mary)! From where have you got this?" She said, "This is from Allāh." Verily, Allāh provides sustenance to whom He wills, without limit."

38. At that time Zakariyā (Zachariya) invoked his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant me from You, a good offspring. You are indeed the All-Hearer of invocation."


39. Then the angels called him, while he was standing in prayer in Al-Mihrāb (a praying place or a private room), (saying): "Allāh gives you glad tidings of Yahya (John), confirming (believing in) the Word from Allāh [i.e. the creation of 'Iesa (Jesus) http://muttaqun.com/quran/graphics/pbuh.gif (broken link), the Word from Allāh ("Be!" - and he was!)], noble, keeping away from sexual relations with women, a Prophet, from among the righteous."


40. He said: "O my Lord! How can I have a son when I am very old, and my wife is barren?" Allāh said: "Thus Allāh does what He wills."


41. He said: "O my Lord! Make a sign for me." Allāh said: "Your sign is that you shall not speak to mankind for three days except with signals. And remember your Lord much (by praising Him again and again), and glorify (Him) in the afternoon and in the morning.[8]"


42. And (remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allāh has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the 'Alamīn (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime)."


43. O Mary! "Submit yourself with obedience to your Lord (Allāh, by worshipping none but Him Alone) and prostrate yourself, and Irkā'i (bow down etc.) along with Ar-Rāki'ūn (those who bow down etc.)."


44. This is a part of the news of the Ghaib (unseen, i.e. the news of the past nations of which you have no knowledge) which We inspire you with (O Muhammad SAW). You were not with them, when they cast lots with their pens as to which of them should be charged with the care of Maryam (Mary); nor were you with them when they disputed.


45. (Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allāh gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allāh."


46. "He will speak to the people in the cradle[9] and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous."


47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me." He said: "So (it will be) for Allāh creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is.


48. And He (Allāh) will teach him ['Iesa (Jesus)] the Book and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom, etc.), (and) the Taurāt (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).


49. And will make him ['Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allāh's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allāh's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe.


50. And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurāt (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allāh and obey me.


51. Truly! Allāh is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path.


52. Then when 'Iesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allāh's Cause?" Al-Hawāriūn (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allāh; we believe in Allāh, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allāh)."


53. Our Lord! We believe in what You have sent down, and we follow the Messenger ['Iesa (Jesus)]; so write us down among those who bear witness (to the truth i.e. Lā ilāha ill-Allāh - none has the right to be worshipped but Allāh).


54. And they (disbelievers) plotted [to kill 'Iesa (Jesus) <http://muttaqun.com/quran/graphics/pbuh.gif (broken link)], and Allāh planned too. And Allāh is the Best of the planners.


55. And (remember) when Allāh said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allāh's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allāh) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allāh, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad SAW, 'Iesa (Jesus), Mūsa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurāt (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'ān] till the Day of Resurrection[10]. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."


56. "As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers."


57. And as for those who believe (in the Oneness of Allāh) and do righteous good deeds, Allāh will pay them their reward in full. And Allāh does not like the Zālimūn (polytheists and wrong-doers).


58. This is what We recite to you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Verses and the Wise Reminder (i.e. the Qur'ān).


59. Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allāh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.


60. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.


61. Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allāh, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad SAW) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allāh upon those who lie."


62. Verily! This is the true narrative [about the story of 'Iesa (Jesus)], and, Lā ilāha ill-Allāh (none has the right to be worshipped but Allāh, the One and the Only True God, Who has neither a wife nor a son). And indeed, Allāh is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.


63. And if they turn away (and do not accept these true proofs and evidences), then surely, Allāh is All-Aware of those who do mischief.

64. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allāh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allāh[11]. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:57 PM
 
148 posts, read 263,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, who said it was truth? Just because you think the Koran is the 100% utterance of God does not make it so. Quite frankly, having read it, I think it is not.

Mohammed probably was making up the entire thing whole cloth.
Allah Glory be to Him said:

36. And most of them follow nothing but conjecture. Certainly, conjecture can be of no avail against the truth. Surely, Allāh is All-Aware of what they do.

37. And this Qur'ān is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allāh (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation)[] which was before it [i.e. the Taurāt (Torah), and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.], and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. laws and orders, etc, decreed for mankind) - wherein there is no doubt from the the Lord of the 'Alamīn (mankind, jinns,and all that exists).

38. Or do they say: "He (Muhammad SAW) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a Sūrah (chapter) like unto it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allāh, if you are truthful!"

39. Nay, they deny that; the knowledge whereof they could not compass and whereof the interpretation has not yet come unto them. Thus those before them did deny. Then see what was the end of the Zālimūn (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.)!

40. And of them there are some who believe therein, and of them there are some who believe not therein, and your Lord is All-Aware of the Mufsidūn (evil-doers, liars, etc.).

41. And if they belie you, say: "For me are my deeds and for you are your deeds! You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do!"

42. And among them are some who listen to you, but can you make the deaf to hear, even though they apprehend not?

43. And among them are some who look at you, but can you guide the blind, even though they see not?

44. Truly! Allāh wrongs not mankind in aught; but mankind wrong themselves.

45. And on the Day when He shall gather (resurrect) them together, (it will be) as if they had not stayed (in the life of this world and graves, etc.) but an hour of a day. They will recognise each other. Ruined indeed will be those who denied the meeting with Allāh, and were not guided.
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:03 PM
 
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I mean no disrespect with this. You can worship who you want. But let's at least be honest when we try to compare Jesus (God) to anyone.

Jesus's teaching on how to treat enemies:
  • Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, pray for them which despitefully use you (Matthew 5:44).
  • Resist not evil (Matthew 5:39).
  • If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to them the other (Matthew 5:39).
  • If someone takes your coat, give them your shirt (Matthew 5:40).
  • If someone make you carry something one mile, carry it two (Matthew 5:41).
  • Forgive and you shall be forgiven (Matthew 6:14).
  • Judge not, that ye be not judged (Matthew 7:1).
  • Blessed are the peacemakers (Matthew 5:9).
  • Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy (Matthew 5:7).
  • Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not kill, but I say who ever is angry with his brother is in danger of the judgment (Matthew 5:21-22).
  • Treat others the same way you want them to treat you (Luke 6:27-36).
  • Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick, whatever you do to the very least you have done unto me (Matthew 25:40).
Muhammad's teaching on how to treat enemies:
  • Infidels are your sworn enemies (Sura 4:101).
  • Be ruthless to the infidels (Sura 48:29).
  • Make war on the infidels who dwell around you (Sura 9:123, 66:9).
  • Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day (Sura 9:29).
  • Strike off the heads of infidels in battle (Sura 47:4).
  • If someone stops believing in Allah, kill him (al-Bukhari 9:84:57).
  • Take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends (Sura 5:51, 60:13).
  • Never be a helper to the disbelievers (Sura 28:86).
  • Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (Sura 2:191).
  • No Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel (al-Bukhari 1:3:111).
  • The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land (Sura 5:33).
When you compare Jesus and Muhammad you get a much better picture of how things really are. He (Muhammad) may have preached one way, but it sure seems his practice was much different. Please review these and correct me where I'm wrong. I haven't read the entire Quran but I've read some.

What motivates fundamental Muslims to violence? Where Jesus was a religious leader, Muhammad was a religious leader and a military leader, thus the effort to separate the militant aspect of Islam from the religious aspect is an attempt to split Muhammad. The closer one follows the example of Jesus, the more peaceful is one's motivation. The closer one follows example of Muhammad, the more militant is one's motivation.

Just My Thoughts!
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